Tactica for Imperial Guard Allies

[Haranin]

The Leman Russ is a backfield beast with the changes to templates (full strength hits for all, not just the middle), keep it cheap with just Heavy Bolter Sponsons and it'll cause some pain.

 

Was leaning for a bassie for some indirect. Upon thinking about it, the standard tank works just as well and contributes to AV 14 spam. Nothing wrong with AP3 templates scratching your back... when you are deathwing :rolleyes:

[dadieau]

I'm trying for a little more synchronicity with my IG allies.

 

I'll take 2 Libbys, one with Prescience and one with Shield of Sanguinius. The IG Armored Sentinels and Basilask can take Cammo netting as can Vet squads and The CCS. The Prescience can be used with either the Basilasks or the Armored Sentinels (with Plasma Cannons). Then add a couple of Heavy Weapon support Squads with Lascannons. A Libby joins each giving them 10 Ld so they will follow the order "Take It Down" to use against, among other things flyers.

 

I also have access to Marbo and cheap meat shields. With great counter attack units in the Blood Angles I'm thinking this might work well for me.

[saturnine]

I play Grey Knights and I plan on taking a Commissar with a bolt pistol and a plasma pistol, because it looks cool and to use the gunslinger rule.

 

A vet squad with 3 plasma guns, a heavy bolter, make them Forward Sentries and give them Sergeant Harker. That gives the squad Infiltrate, Stealth, Move through cover, a second heavy bolter and another +1 to their cover save. It seems like a hard objective holder in my opinion.

 

Guardsmen Marbo, he's cheap, looks very effective and adds a nice little fear factor to my opponent

 

Two Griffon Mortars, Cheap, nice fire power and adds some much needed long range support for my Grey Knights.

 

That's 505 points for my allies.

[Bannus]

I'm trying for a little more synchronicity with my IG allies.

 

I'll take 2 Libbys, one with Prescience and one with Shield of Sanguinius. The IG Armored Sentinels and Basilask can take Cammo netting as can Vet squads and The CCS. The Prescience can be used with either the Basilasks or the Armored Sentinels (with Plasma Cannons). Then add a couple of Heavy Weapon support Squads with Lascannons. A Libby joins each giving them 10 Ld so they will follow the order "Take It Down" to use against, among other things flyers.

 

I also have access to Marbo and cheap meat shields. With great counter attack units in the Blood Angles I'm thinking this might work well for me.

Keep in mind that this is a power-armored forum. Discussing IG allies for Space Marines is OK and within the rules. Discussing Space Marine allies for IG is not. :huh:

[Zedrenael]

I'm trying for a little more synchronicity with my IG allies.

 

I'll take 2 Libbys, one with Prescience and one with Shield of Sanguinius. The IG Armored Sentinels and Basilask can take Cammo netting as can Vet squads and The CCS. The Prescience can be used with either the Basilasks or the Armored Sentinels (with Plasma Cannons). Then add a couple of Heavy Weapon support Squads with Lascannons. A Libby joins each giving them 10 Ld so they will follow the order "Take It Down" to use against, among other things flyers.

 

I also have access to Marbo and cheap meat shields. With great counter attack units in the Blood Angles I'm thinking this might work well for me.

Keep in mind that this is a power-armored forum. Discussing IG allies for Space Marines is OK and within the rules. Discussing Space Marine allies for IG is not. ;)

 

He is talking about taking IG and how his SM boost them. Not the other way around.

[*Furyou Miko]

Forward Sentries + Harker doesn't synergise very well because Harker and the Sentries rule gives the same benefit.

 

Whoever said the Master of Ordnance was one shot is wrong, by the way - a Company Command Squad with a Master of Ordnance attached gives you a S9 AP3 ordnance barrage (large blast) every turn. Really, for straight Guard allies there's no better choice than a fully reinforced Company Command Squad with camo cloaks. They give you tactical control through the Astropath and Master of the Fleet, offensive power through the Master of Ordnance, staying power for your Guard allies through Get Back in the Fight! and are pretty survivable because of the 2+ Look out - Aargh! roll (put the Officer in the front with his camo cloak and refractor field, being the most durable member of the squad, then use the bodyguards to absorb any wound he DOES take).

 

Infantry Platoons vs Veterans is an ancient argument. IF you take a platoon, you can get a LOT of boots on the ground for a relatively low price. If you take a Veteran squad, you can put them in a Vendetta and drop them right where those three meltaguns and a demo charge can do the most damage (yes, you can take multiple doctrines on a Veteran squad! Although it does get expensive).

 

The other thing to consider is that if you put one squad from a platoon inside a Valkyrie, the entire platoon is forced into reserve and therefore doesn't count towards the 50% model limit. This isn't so useful when fielding Imperial Guard because the majority will have to walk on from your board edge, but when you do the same thing with an Elysian Drop Troop army it becomes a little obscene - one reserve roll can bring on an entire army's worth of deep striking models, especially given that Elysian platoons can have a Drop Sentinel squad and four Special Weapon squads instead of three, and infantry squads can include demo charges (but no heavy weapons). This is a lot of potential hurt in a very short amount of time, and the look on your opponent's face when you go from having three squads and a light tank on the field to dropping that many earthshaker shells on his head followed by massed lasguns, melta (or flamer or plasma)guns and krak grenades (2 per squad during the alpha strike if you take an aux launcher on the sergeant) is worth it every time it works.

 

The downsides to using Elysians over regular Guard are several, however. Firstly, all squads are 5-10 points more expensive (except the sentinels) than their C:IG counterparts. Secondly, the CSS doesn't have access to the Master of Ordnance or the Astropath. Finally, our Heavy Weapon squads can only take Mortars, Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters and our Infantry Squads can't take a Heavy Weapon at all (although the options for demo charges and lascutters make up for that). The last isn't so much of an issue - Elysians are almost always on the move for at least two turns at the start of every game, so chances to fire heavy weapons are somewhat reduced (Although snapfire has mitigated this weakness somewhat).

 

The Elysian army does give other options. While the 3 TL-Las Vendetta seems an obvious choice, because we get Valkyries as Dedicated Transports and the ability to take Vultures as Heavy Support, the significantly cheaper Tauros and Tauros Venator buggies are a viable option - especially since you can equip them with homing beacons that reduce your chance of scattering on deep strike by half. The Tauros Venator especially is a rugged little buggy that comes in ridiculously over-gunned with a twin-linked multilaser, exchangeable for a twin-linked lascannon at a reasonable price, and the ability to take not one but two cheap hunter-killer missiles.

[Darkmagi]

Another unit to consider is the Hydra Flack Tank, taken in squads of up to 3 it can lend some much needed anti-air firepower to our marine codexes which is something we sorely lack. Or even the leman russ exterminator (autocannon one) great anti light transport and with av14 quite durable.

[saturnine]

Forward Sentries + Harker doesn't synergise very well because Harker and the Sentries rule gives the same benefit.

 

 

As per FaQ, Camo Cloaks give +1 to cover now, not stealth

[Zedrenael]

Are you sure about that? I know space marine camo cloaks just add +1 to stealth but I am not sure about IG

[Lucien Eilam]

Read the FAQ: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...d_6th_Ed_V1.pdf

[Zedrenael]

It is filter blocked on my computer right now

[Cmdr Shepard]

Whoever said the Master of Ordnance was one shot is wrong, by the way - a Company Command Squad with a Master of Ordnance attached gives you a S9 AP3 ordnance barrage (large blast) every turn. Really, for straight Guard allies there's no better choice than a fully reinforced Company Command Squad with camo cloaks. They give you tactical control through the Astropath and Master of the Fleet, offensive power through the Master of Ordnance, staying power for your Guard allies through Get Back in the Fight! and are pretty survivable because of the 2+ Look out - Aargh! roll (put the Officer in the front with his camo cloak and refractor field, being the most durable member of the squad, then use the bodyguards to absorb any wound he DOES take).

 

I thought about fielding this very unit several time however I encountered a significat obstacle: it's points cost.

This units reaches 190 pts without any additional special weapons. Since I usually have less than 500 pts available for allies when I play at 2000pts I may have some issue in fielding other IG units.

However I may try to include it in my next GK/SM + IG allies list I'll play. I may reduce the number of marine units (or using the less expesinve ones) and see how they perform with they "improved" IG allies :blink:

 

Infantry Platoons vs Veterans is an ancient argument. IF you take a platoon, you can get a LOT of boots on the ground for a relatively low price. If you take a Veteran squad, you can put them in a Vendetta and drop them right where those three meltaguns and a demo charge can do the most damage (yes, you can take multiple doctrines on a Veteran squad! Although it does get expensive).

You described perfectly the reason of my dilemma: veteran get expensive. This is even more relevant for allies since I have already allocated a good ammount of points to the primary detachment.

 

Platoons will allow us to field up to 50 men units, even though with allies I never had so much points available :lol:

 

The other thing to consider is that if you put one squad from a platoon inside a Valkyrie, the entire platoon is forced into reserve and therefore doesn't count towards the 50% model limit.

Very interesting. Has it been confirmed by FAQs? I ask because even though the infantry platoon is a single choice some player may object they are separated units for any other game purpose.

 

This isn't so useful when fielding Imperial Guard because the majority will have to walk on from your board edge, but when you do the same thing with an Elysian Drop Troop army it becomes a little obscene - one reserve roll can bring on an entire army's worth of deep striking models, especially given that Elysian platoons can have a Drop Sentinel squad and four Special Weapon squads instead of three, and infantry squads can include demo charges (but no heavy weapons). This is a lot of potential hurt in a very short amount of time, and the look on your opponent's face when you go from having three squads and a light tank on the field to dropping that many earthshaker shells on his head followed by massed lasguns, melta (or flamer or plasma)guns and krak grenades (2 per squad during the alpha strike if you take an aux launcher on the sergeant) is worth it every time it works.

 

I really like Elysian Drop Troops, their "combact doctrines" (namely the army's playstyle :P ) is the closest thing 40k has to contemporary military style. Every other IG army depict an older "warfare style".

However as I already told you in another topic; the use of FW rules is sometimes controversial in my local community.

I know this is not logical since FW is official as standard GW models/rules (just give a look to your IA books and you will read who hold the intellectual property ;) )

 

I's like to hear official word from GW about the use of FW rules. If they clearly state FW are legal as the one from any given codex there will be no longer any issue in my local gaming community. It's official thus it's legal to play.

 

Anyway I like the earthshaker. I know many persons say the Basilisk is not worth etc, but those S9 AP3 barrage shots that force your opponent to start the wound allocation starting from the closet model to the blast centre instead of the closest model to the shooting model are amazing. Not to mention the ability to shoot outside line of sight.

 

The Elysian army does give other options. While the 3 TL-Las Vendetta seems an obvious choice, because we get Valkyries as Dedicated Transports and the ability to take Vultures as Heavy Support, the significantly cheaper Tauros and Tauros Venator buggies are a viable option - especially since you can equip them with homing beacons that reduce your chance of scattering on deep strike by half. The Tauros Venator especially is a rugged little buggy that comes in ridiculously over-gunned with a twin-linked multilaser, exchangeable for a twin-linked lascannon at a reasonable price, and the ability to take not one but two cheap hunter-killer missiles.

You just quoted several of my favorite models. ;)

I have to solve this controversy on FW models. Do you have found any phrase on the rulebook that mention the "legality" of FW rules, a part from your opponent's permission?

I want to play legal armies but I don't want to beg other persons for playing my models.

[*Furyou Miko]

It's not specifically stated anywhere, but page 383 of the big rule book includes Forge World books (specifically Imperial Armour Volumes 9 and 10) under the same umbrella as Apocalypse, Cities of Death, Planetary Empires and Planetstrike. That and the fact that the rulebook is absolutely full of Forge World kits and recommends their use in several places (such as for the Battle of Eagle's Gate in the Iconoclasm! chapter).

 

The actual rule saying that Forge World stuff requires the opponent's permission hasn't been printed in the Forge World books since before volume 8, so in theory it doesn't apply to anything post that. Raid on Kastorel-Novem (IA8, where the Elysian list is) just says;

 

This book is not a stand-alone supplement, reference is made to other Warhammer 40,000 publications and you may find it helpful to have read these before reading this book. To use the mateiral in this book in games of Warhammer 40,000, you will need the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and the following Codexes: Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Orks and the PLanet Strike supplement. Also, Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse and the supplements: Imperial Armour Apocalypse I and II and Apocalypse Reloaded will be useful. Having these books will assist in playing the scenarios and enriching the backround to the campaign. For updates on this book and other Imperial Armour books, visit our website at www.forgeworld.co.ul

 

Other than that, the publication and copyright information is just the same as you'd expect from a regular codex.

 

Perhaps more to the point, the only mention of which books ARE legal in the rulebook is the section on page 108 on 'Choosing an Army', which states;

 

Each of the races or space-born empires in Warhammer 40,000 has a codex - a book that contains rules, background and collecting information for that army. Within the pages of each codex, you'll find everything you need to know about that faction. An important part of this is the army list, which will let you transform your collection of Citadel miniatures into a Warhammer 40,000 army.

 

Page 295 (the start of the Chaos section of the 'citadel miniatures gallery' clearly features a trio of Forge World reaver titans (it might be two warhounds and a reaver, I didn't look THAT closely), so I'd say it's safe to say that Forge World is counted as being Citadel, in case someone particularly picky wanted to say "but the rules only say CITADEL miniatures!"

 

Sadly, this is all circumstantial evidence at best and what we really need is for it to come up in the next core rulebook FAQ. May I humbly suggest that everyone reading this thread sends an email asking GW Customer Support if Forge World is legal now.

 

One thing - I said 'earthshaker shells'. That was a slightly misleading comment, as I was talking about demo charges which are slightly better (S10 AP1) rather than literal earthshakers. The saddest part about the Elysians is that they can't take any off-table artillery or on-table ordnance. Much as I would love the Master of the Fleet to be able to call down lance strikes, it's not within his remit. :huh:

[Cmdr Shepard]

You are always a helpful source of information, Miko :)

 

Even though the evidence is circumstantial I believe it is a clear indication of GW point of view on the matter. In my country June WD there was an article on a National Narrative Campaign (I live in Italy for the records) and they said FW rules were clearly allowed. Only requiriment was, of course, to have the IA book when they are listed.

 

I agree with your suggestion on asking GW if FW are always considered legal in 6th Edition. Sadly GW customer supports around the world showed a certain degree of "incoherence" about rule intepretation in the past. Most of the them didn't agree on the rule intepretation from other countries customer supports.

 

Anyway we could lead a petition about getting an official response, Miko. :D

[DerekLee688]

Just wanted to mention Medusa Siege Cannons have gotten a nice boost due to AP1/2 shells vs 2+ armor saves(GK), no wasted range when night fighting(necrons), and give their S:10 + AP:2 & ordnance or AP1 goodness full template vs vehicles. Bastion-breacher shells give a bit more range vs vehicle glancing weapons like GK's with psycannons or Necrons with Gauss weapons for a little extra cost.

 

You may not be able to take IG tech priests as your HQ count but you can take a Master of the Forge as your marine HQ and take the IG tech priests for servitor units. C:SM users have to decide on the more durable MotF or the inferrior elite Tech marine with the better repair capablity of the servitors.

 

*imagines an army with Leman Russes with Dreadnoughts on either side of them sourrounding MotF attatched to tech priest servitor units*

[Purge]

From what everyone is posting I'm seeing 500 points of IG when I can get some snipers for 150 to camp out on an objective. my question is, what is the cheapest IG I can get as as allies? I like the idea of having a bunch of Ig models standing around holding a base objective but I don't want to spend 1/3 of a 1500 point game on them.

[*Furyou Miko]

OK, the cheapest you can get with IG as allies (while still being fairly effective) would have to be (in my opinion only);

 

Core IG book;

HQ:

Primaris Psyker

 

 

Troops:

Veteran squad

-Autocannon

 

This comes to a total of 140 points.

 

You could reduce the cost slightly by fielding a naked CCS instead of the Psyker, but I think the difference in cost isn't large enough to bother. If you were willing to spend a little more, I'd suggest either taking Forward Observers (Camo Cloaks + Snare Mines) for the Veteran squad or a basic unit of Ratlings (They cost the same!)

[Cmdr Shepard]

If you plan to keep the Vets on an objective I'd recommend flamers: very useful if they get charged. They can also burn some flanking model since they cannot charge in the turn they arrive from reserve.

Otherwise plasma guns but in any case you will spend more than 140 pts, if you give them special weapons. You may save some point if you field an un-upgraded company command squad.

 

Anyway what I like of IG is the heavy weapons or their flyers ^_^

If I have to spend points just to place a 10 men unit on an objective I may play SM scouts, just my opinion, though

If you field a 30-50 men infantry "blob" it's a different story :)