Toasterfree Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 if you want to put something fun NEAR some TWC you can put a IP near them. IIRC IPs are NOT ICs and may soak up some shots going to the TWC if they forget that hes not part of the unit, and if not, then you can get his face beating TH in combat easier and with some abaltive cyberwolf wounds also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3131317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Brothers, where does it say an IC can join TWC units without having a TWC himself? Thanks, Jonnywolf There isn't. The rule is that a model on a TWM can only join units of TWC and Fenrisian wolves. People backdoor that rule by saying that a non-TWM IC is joining them. That is like cheating husband saying to his wife, "I wasn't having sex with her dear, she was having sex with me!" The intent of the rule is quite clear with the rules entry ending with, "-anything else is asking for trouble!" However my opinion on this is shouted down, on this very forum and on other rules discussion forums, yet not only do I believe this, I play it that way as well. TWM are only ever allowed to join TWC and Fenrisian wolves in my lists. In fact, I will not even join TWM with TWM as they are not TWC or Fenrisian wolves. No non-TWM IC will ever join my TWC or TWM. Ok, thanks brother. Just wanted to make sure. I have a RP on a bike trailing my cav units for psyker defence, but I don't ever let him be a part of the unit (i.e. the RP can still be targeted individually). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3131701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fytharin Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Even as a new player it's extremely obvious that any non-wolf unit cannot join TWC. Honestly I don't even know why that's a question in peoples minds... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 non-wolf units CAN join TWC iirc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Brothers, where does it say an IC can join TWC units without having a TWC himself? Thanks, Jonnywolf There isn't. The rule is that a model on a TWM can only join units of TWC and Fenrisian wolves. People backdoor that rule by saying that a non-TWM IC is joining them. That is like cheating husband saying to his wife, "I wasn't having sex with her dear, she was having sex with me!" The intent of the rule is quite clear with the rules entry ending with, "-anything else is asking for trouble!" However my opinion on this is shouted down, on this very forum and on other rules discussion forums, yet not only do I believe this, I play it that way as well. TWM are only ever allowed to join TWC and Fenrisian wolves in my lists. In fact, I will not even join TWM with TWM as they are not TWC or Fenrisian wolves. No non-TWM IC will ever join my TWC or TWM. non-wolf units CAN join TWC iirc See my point here Toaster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 RAW vs RAI. Move along, nothing to see here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 logic dictates they can't join, but looking at the entry for Thunderwolf Cavalry, they don't have Thunderwolf Mounts as gear, and the special ruling restricting what can and cannot join is in the Thunderwolf Mount entry. anything can join a unit of TWC if you follow the rules as written. if you follow logic, they cannot. I'll be letting them join when going up against annoying opponents whom I've experienced as cheats. I'll not let them join when going up against people who are fun to play against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 :) so back to the question, on a unit of 4 what "should" one take? i figure that 2 SS is enough for survivability Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 :D so back to the question, on a unit of 4 what "should" one take? i figure that 2 SS is enough for survivability I think that depends on what type of armies you typically face. If you face a lot of high S low AP weaponry then only go with 1 SS. If you face a ton of low AP / ID weaponry then go all storm shields and bring FW on your Wolf Lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 2ss 1th 1mb Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myothercarisarazorback Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I've been taking (mostly in 5th ed, mind you): TWC BP/CCW/MB TWC BP/TH TWC SS/CCW TWC SS/CCW Two shields is enough to deflect most fire (at least in my meta) and get the pack into cc. I'm still tinkering with the lord kit as well as testing him in a maxed out fen wolf pack. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Don't you have a problem with the Wolves getting cut down in large numbers forcing you to take a Morale check with a big penalty? I can see this being especially bad if your Lord gets Challenged by a 1 Wound Character, thus he can only ever contribute 1 Wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Don't you have a problem with the Wolves getting cut down in large numbers forcing you to take a Morale check with a big penalty? I can see this being especially bad if your Lord gets Challenged by a 1 Wound Character, thus he can only ever contribute 1 Wound. Prior to challenges, the tactic was to split off your wolf lord on a TWM from your Fenrisian wolves during the movement phase before you assaulted. However now with challenges, your wolf lord can get tied up to only dealing one wound on a throwaway challenge while the wolves get torn up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myothercarisarazorback Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Don't you have a problem with the Wolves getting cut down in large numbers forcing you to take a Morale check with a big penalty? I can see this being especially bad if your Lord gets Challenged by a 1 Wound Character, thus he can only ever contribute 1 Wound. Prior to challenges, the tactic was to split off your wolf lord on a TWM from your Fenrisian wolves during the movement phase before you assaulted. However now with challenges, your wolf lord can get tied up to only dealing one wound on a throwaway challenge while the wolves get torn up. Well by the time he gets to assault you're a lucky chap if many of the wolves are left, so i've not had that problem, and the fenrisian wolves are surprisingly good in assault. I just find that when the lord's with thundercav the outcomes pretty much the same, the wolf lord makes it to combat and most of the squad are dead, just the fennies are alot cheaper. I dont find the challenges to be too much of a problem really, as he's pretty much guaranteed to kill the unfortunate challenger, and then next round your free to go about the killing! all depends who youre fighting though i guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3132981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 dunno if you even need a storm shield on your TWC if you're having a TWLord joining them, since he'll most likely be wearing runic armour and a stormshield or a belt of Russ, and saga of the Bear, but if you're giving one of the TWC a special weapon that does not get an extra attack with the pistol, it might be a good idea to throw one on there... then again, not giving him the Stormshield allows you to choose which weapon to fight with if I'm not mistaken... I'd say magnetise, and try a few games without stormshields first. at 30 pts a pop they can be used elsewhere (2 Grey Hunters xtra?) or an additional stormbolter for a rhino and 2 Fenrisian extra wounds for the Lord joining your TWC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hello Battle Brothers, I read this topic with great interest. Do you have any idea for building an actual TWC list? I thinking about building a 2000 pts army. How many TWC units do you suggest? What "supporting" units? Long Fangs are a must, I suppose :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Don't you have a problem with the Wolves getting cut down in large numbers forcing you to take a Morale check with a big penalty? I can see this being especially bad if your Lord gets Challenged by a 1 Wound Character, thus he can only ever contribute 1 Wound. Prior to challenges, the tactic was to split off your wolf lord on a TWM from your Fenrisian wolves during the movement phase before you assaulted. However now with challenges, your wolf lord can get tied up to only dealing one wound on a throwaway challenge while the wolves get torn up. Can't we upgrade fenrisian packs with pack leader characters to accept dummy challenges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Don't you have a problem with the Wolves getting cut down in large numbers forcing you to take a Morale check with a big penalty? I can see this being especially bad if your Lord gets Challenged by a 1 Wound Character, thus he can only ever contribute 1 Wound. Prior to challenges, the tactic was to split off your wolf lord on a TWM from your Fenrisian wolves during the movement phase before you assaulted. However now with challenges, your wolf lord can get tied up to only dealing one wound on a throwaway challenge while the wolves get torn up. Can't we upgrade fenrisian packs with pack leader characters to accept dummy challenges. I think there needs to be a better definition as to what a character is, for challenges. Are they upgraded squad members like sgts, or are they just what is listed in the BRB appendix? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 After having played about 4 games of 6th, i found the thundercav and lord to be okay, but now i think its better just to put a tooled up thunderlord in with a pack of fen wolves. Same result (mostly), less points! also I think the cavalry rules are definitely better now. Don't you have a problem with the Wolves getting cut down in large numbers forcing you to take a Morale check with a big penalty? I can see this being especially bad if your Lord gets Challenged by a 1 Wound Character, thus he can only ever contribute 1 Wound. Prior to challenges, the tactic was to split off your wolf lord on a TWM from your Fenrisian wolves during the movement phase before you assaulted. However now with challenges, your wolf lord can get tied up to only dealing one wound on a throwaway challenge while the wolves get torn up. Can't we upgrade fenrisian packs with pack leader characters to accept dummy challenges. I thought it was possible as well. I need to see what is considered an upgrade character in the characters section to see if that is possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 i think right now they are as listed in the back of the BRB. a character (since 3rd) has really been defined as someone that can purchase additional wargear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 i think right now they are as listed in the back of the BRB. a character (since 3rd) has really been defined as someone that can purchase additional wargear. Didn't they redefine that with the arrival of members of squads that could be upgraded as well? Blood Claw---->Lukas Wolf Guard----->Arjac Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3133975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 i think right now they are as listed in the back of the BRB. a character (since 3rd) has really been defined as someone that can purchase additional wargear. So the TWC model that takes the additional PW,Fist, or Hammer is a character too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3134012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Didn't they redefine that with the arrival of members of squads that could be upgraded as well? Blood Claw---->Lukas Wolf Guard----->Arjac for those i think yes, they are different as they are upgrades, essentially coming with the extra wargear So the TWC model that takes the additional PW,Fist, or Hammer is a character too? no. see below. the slight problem with my "definition" is that you used to have to upgrade to be able to take that extra wargear, so like a tac marine to a vet sgt. since the "invention" of 5th and marines already coming with one, while the sgt would still be "defined" as a character, current format i do not think he is. the "extra" war gear goes back to when a vet sgt could take up to 50 pts from a DEDICATED section of warger, not a list of upgrades. even going back to 3rd there were instances where one model could so such for so many points and NOT be an upgrade. in most cases (not all) a character has a different BASE stat line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3134286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 But aren't all WG characters?? End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257000-twc-and-6th/page/2/#findComment-3134329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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