Fear to tread

[Gree]

Well I've finally got a chance to read it, it's a good book and I thought the Blood Angels got great credit. I think for once, I actually do want to play Blood Angels because of this book.

 

It does make me envious though, reading Sanguinius fight Ka'Bandha. The Angel slays the most powerful Bloodthrister of Khorne, a beast capable of killing five hundred Space Marines in a single blow, while Guilliman is cast down by Kor Phaeron without getting a single hit in return. In this book that is how you write a Primarch fighting.

 

Well the funny thing is that the Chaos forces, in a private moment, reflect on how Signus Prime was specially prepared and infused with warp energy and Chaos rituals to bring the daemonic army into existience. Basically the Chaos forces are going to be at the peak of their powers. Sanguinius still defeats the Daemon Prince Kryniss and one of Khorne’s most powerful Bloodthirsters, the former being taken out pretty quickly.

[Billuriye]

It does make me envious though, reading Sanguinius fight Ka'Bandha. The Angel slays the most powerful Bloodthrister of Khorne, a beast capable of killing five hundred Space Marines in a single blow, while Guilliman is cast down by Kor Phaeron without getting a single hit in return. In this book that is how you write a Primarch fighting.

 

Ka Bandha is not the most powerful Bloodthirster. An'ggrath is.

[Gree]

It does make me envious though, reading Sanguinius fight Ka'Bandha. The Angel slays the most powerful Bloodthrister of Khorne, a beast capable of killing five hundred Space Marines in a single blow, while Guilliman is cast down by Kor Phaeron without getting a single hit in return. In this book that is how you write a Primarch fighting.

 

Ka Bandha is not the most powerful Bloodthirster. An'ggrath is.

 

One of the most powerful Bloodthirsters then, Ka'Bandha is one of Khorne's most favorued. Sanguinius still defeats him. Even in their first match Sanguinius was still superior in combat and Ka'Bandha had to resort to a dirty trick in order to win. and I'd still wager Ka'Bandha being way more powerful than Kor Phaeron, especially if the daemon could kill 500 Marines in a single blow.

[Billuriye]

I don't care, i got nothing to do with this "vs" crap. Just pointing the difference.

[Gree]

I don't care, i got nothing to do with this "vs" crap. Just pointing out.

 

Yes, yes, that's all nice, but it still doesn't defeat my point.

[overloard]

Well I've finally got a chance to read it, it's a good book and I thought the Blood Angels got great credit. I think for once, I actually do want to play Blood Angels because of this book.

 

It does make me envious though, reading Sanguinius fight Ka'Bandha. The Angel slays the most powerful Bloodthrister of Khorne, a beast capable of killing five hundred Space Marines in a single blow, while Guilliman is cast down by Kor Phaeron without getting a single hit in return. In this book that is how you write a Primarch fighting.

 

Well the funny thing is that the Chaos forces, in a private moment, reflect on how Signus Prime was specially prepared and infused with warp energy and Chaos rituals to bring the daemonic army into existience. Basically the Chaos forces are going to be at the peak of their powers. Sanguinius still defeats the Daemon Prince Kryniss and one of Khorne’s most powerful Bloodthirsters, the former being taken out pretty quickly.

I had mixed feelings about this fight. As loyalist i always pleased to see some daemons getting stomped, but i felt it somehow diminishes whole Sanguinius/Ka'Bandha rivalry thing. After seeing Sanguinius defeating the beast in such humiliating fashion, i'm not so looking forward to their duel during siege of Terra. Maybe Ka'Bandha will be replaced with the Red Angel?

 

And Kyriss was just a wimp. For a dude who supposedly enslaved whole star system he was remarkably weak in actual combat.

[Gree]

Well I've finally got a chance to read it, it's a good book and I thought the Blood Angels got great credit. I think for once, I actually do want to play Blood Angels because of this book.

 

It does make me envious though, reading Sanguinius fight Ka'Bandha. The Angel slays the most powerful Bloodthrister of Khorne, a beast capable of killing five hundred Space Marines in a single blow, while Guilliman is cast down by Kor Phaeron without getting a single hit in return. In this book that is how you write a Primarch fighting.

 

Well the funny thing is that the Chaos forces, in a private moment, reflect on how Signus Prime was specially prepared and infused with warp energy and Chaos rituals to bring the daemonic army into existience. Basically the Chaos forces are going to be at the peak of their powers. Sanguinius still defeats the Daemon Prince Kryniss and one of Khorne’s most powerful Bloodthirsters, the former being taken out pretty quickly.

I had mixed feelings about this fight. As loyalist i always pleased to see some daemons getting stomped, but i felt it somehow diminishes whole Sanguinius/Ka'Bandha rivalry thing. After seeing Sanguinius defeating the beast in such humiliating fashion, i'm not so looking forward to their duel during siege of Terra. Maybe Ka'Bandha will be replaced with the Red Angel?

 

And Kyriss was just a wimp. For a dude who supposedly enslaved whole start system he was remarkably weak in actual combat.

 

Well when reading the novel I did a double take at Sanguinius dispatching not one but two powerful daemons in a place were they both should be at the height of their powers. Either Kyriss is just that weak or Primarchs like Sanguinius are just that strong.

[spu00sed]

Just finished reading it today (brought it yesterday).

 

Overall I enjoyed it.

 

 

I liked the link between Sanguinius and his sons, how he felt the deaths of each one, no matter how far away they were.

 

The sang guard were also well potrayed as devoted guards. When Angel boy fell they swarmed around him and teleported him away, the battle be damned. Perfect praetorians.

 

 

I’m not sure about the Space Wolves. It seems to be implied that squads were sent to shadow every primarch to ensure they didn’t do a Magnus. I feel this feeds too much into them being the Emperor’s executioners.

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

And Kyriss was just a wimp. For a dude who supposedly enslaved whole star system he was remarkably weak in actual combat.

 

Because, as we all know, how influential you are is directly proportional to how good a shot you are, or how many skulls you can crush in your bare hands. It's for this reason that every President/Prime Minister/Dictator/what-have-you/delete-as-appropriate is always the utter best combatant in their country. Unlike what the codexes and army books would have us believe, just because you hold a position of power, does not make you automatically awesome in combat. If this were true, the High Lords of Terra would be even more powerful than the Primarchs, because they control the Imperium, each Primarch just controlled a Legion, despite the fact that they're just leaders, and (mostly) not soldiers.

 

Yes, he enslaved a whole starsystem, but I'll assume he didn't do so by beating every individual person up. He, like every good Evil Overlord, has minions to do that for him! ;)

[Hyaenidae]

Great book, I found it very cool to see

the first Flesh Tearer, Captain Amit, kickin' ass, and laid down some very cool backstroy to that poor, battered Chapter.

 

 

By far the craziest part was the very end of the book.

Horus cutting Erebus's face off? Holy crap....

 

[Blood Angel Scout]

WARNING- this post may contain spelling errors and lack of page specific quotes due to not having source material to hand, a dodgy keyboard and probably more words than I originally intended- so much for fast reply....

 

 

Having read the novel again and seeing some of the posts, would point out that this is where the orgins of the BA's 40K persona stem from in so much as 40K BA know about the challenge to combat the flaws of the geneseed, inherent in pre-battle rituals while the Wardens watch for those afflicted by the Angel's final hours (love the concept of the Wardens pre-dating the decree for chaplains as well as another distinguishing factor of Legionary practices) whereas 30K BA, hardly any marine is aware of the potential failing in falling to the curse.

 

This also establishes the importance of Horus seeing the events at the opening of the tale, to build on the concept he feared being eclipsed by Sanguinius as well as sending a message to the Emperor by corrupting one of the oldest of his legions who date prior to the Great Crusade if my intepretation is correct, in the need to control the legion by, in essence, replacing the bond/control between the Great Angel and his "sons" with the effects brought on by the Red Angel.

 

I can agree to an extent about not seeing the characters as they had been defined in previous novels though will point out that in those instances, it was always when two legions met and well established characters essentially sized each other up before combat against other marines (prime exmple coming to mind Loken/Lucius, both reknowned for abilities followed by a head to head, demonstrating those comparisons) whereas the majority of the events in Signus Prime are marines fighting non-marines therefore may be more difficult to identify the prowess of Ralderon or Azekellon, until we see them against the tratiors.

 

Alternatively, it may have been left out to avoid pointless debate about "my primarch's/first captain/psyker is better than yours" or "how can my primarch's/first captain/psyker not do the same thing as your primarch's/first captain/psyker" but that would be like hoping that internet access was related to reading comprehension, understanding subtle nuances or indeed accepting the words in the novels as the way it is, not how it should be or how it was, but how it is at this moment in...the present of a futuristic dystopian setting 38,000 years away from life as we understand it, in fact probably the only similarities we should draw between that setting and ours is that humans still need air, food and water to live! Oh and that the Emperor walks among us too.....

 

Would liked to have seen more detailing the early life of the Primarch and his influence on Baal to the Emp's arrival but understand that not every HH tale will have this or else would restrict the story development, avoid it becoming almost template writing plus can always be dealt with when Sang and the Emp meet to prepare for the Siege, something along the lines of:

 

Sang "Father, since the day you landed on Baal, I had seen this possible outcome but I saw so much that never came to be that I never told you...I never told you I had seen us fall at the hands of..."

 

Emp "My son, worry not. It is a part of which we share, the gift of foresight, for I too was aware of this, even told the boy in the Outcast Dead that it would probably come to that"

 

Sang "Really? Then why not..."

 

Emp: "You know why too, has everything you've seen come to pass?"

 

Sang "No...no it has not. But as the inevitable reckoning draws nearer, the number of visions I have seen have reduce to merely a few, though many show the same and all I will say for certain, is I will face my brother in your presence, after that..."

 

Emp "I know not either..."

 

Sanguinius lapses into a memory, the first time he saw his father and brother together as they stepped on to the red soil of his home, the sense of fate entwining them all

[overloard]

And Kyriss was just a wimp. For a dude who supposedly enslaved whole star system he was remarkably weak in actual combat.

 

Because, as we all know, how influential you are is directly proportional to how good a shot you are, or how many skulls you can crush in your bare hands. It's for this reason that every President/Prime Minister/Dictator/what-have-you/delete-as-appropriate is always the utter best combatant in their country. Unlike what the codexes and army books would have us believe, just because you hold a position of power, does not make you automatically awesome in combat. If this were true, the High Lords of Terra would be even more powerful than the Primarchs, because they control the Imperium, each Primarch just controlled a Legion, despite the fact that they're just leaders, and (mostly) not soldiers.

 

Yes, he enslaved a whole starsystem, but I'll assume he didn't do so by beating every individual person up. He, like every good Evil Overlord, has minions to do that for him! :)

Your comparisons are not exactly accurate. Guys in the Warp don't get promoted to the Greater Demon due to popularity amongst folks or family connections. Unless you are powerful enough to keep your minions in check, they will destroy and devour you at first opportunity.

Kyriss probably didn't personally kill every single human of Signus in a fistfight, but he was shown to be quite adept in sorcery, capable of extracting bones from every single corpse and building huge cathedral from them, or carving huge Chaos Star on the surface of the planet. One would have expected him to employ something like this in combat, but for some reason he didn't.

 

 

Also, I was surprised when Ka'Bandha sent Horus regards from Samus. If I am not mistaken, the two never actually met.

[Gree]

Alternatively, it may have been left out to avoid pointless debate about "my primarch's/first captain/psyker is better than yours" or "how can my primarch's/first captain/psyker not do the same thing as your primarch's/first captain/psyker" but that would be like hoping that internet access was related to reading comprehension, understanding subtle nuances or indeed accepting the words in the novels as the way it is, not how it should be or how it was, but how it is at this moment in...the present of a futuristic dystopian setting 38,000 years away from life as we understand it, in fact probably the only similarities we should draw between that setting and ours is that humans still need air, food and water to live! Oh and that the Emperor walks among us too.....

 

There are no nuances yes, but it's not pointless if some things are presented in a pretty clear cut manner. Take for example Sanguinius, after seeing his peformance against...well pretty much everything, I very much doubt he would be defeated by a mortal sorcerer in three hits without a chance to fight back.

 

Also, I was surprised when Ka'Bandha sent Horus regards from Samus. If I am not mistaken, the two never actually met.

 

Whenever they use that daemon I keep on thinking of Samus Aran.

[Billuriye]

You comparisons are not exactly accurate. Guys in the Warp don't get promoted to the Greater Demon due to popularity amongst folks or family connections. Unless you are powerful enough to keep your minions in check, they will destroy and devour you at first opportunity.

 

Actually i would expect from a Slaaneshi deamon to be promoted due to his/her popularity amongst his kin and mortals. Charisma/Popularity is another form of power. It doesn't exactly translate into brute force and doesn't need to.

[Angel of Solitude]

 

I’m not sure about the Space Wolves. It seems to be implied that squads were sent to shadow every primarch to ensure they didn’t do a Magnus. I feel this feeds too much into them being the Emperor’s executioners.

I'm not sure it would be every primarch, more likely those who loyalty is currently unknown.

I expect that Sanguinius was on the watch list because of the well documented relationship between him and Horus.

 

[Perrin]

 

I’m not sure about the Space Wolves. It seems to be implied that squads were sent to shadow every primarch to ensure they didn’t do a Magnus. I feel this feeds too much into them being the Emperor’s executioners.

I'm not sure it would be every primarch, more likely those who loyalty is currently unknown.

I expect that Sanguinius was on the watch list because of the well documented relationship between him and Horus.

 

 

Or those who supported the Librarian project or have powers themselves maybe?

[Angel of Solitude]

The attachment of the Space Wolves was, if I remember correctly, to

assassinate Sanguinius if it should be required - not to bring the rest of the legion to heel. I think this plays down the Librarius link.

.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The attachment of the Space Wolves was, if I remember correctly, to

assassinate Sanguinius if it should be required - not to bring the rest of the legion to heel. I think this plays down the Librarius link.

.

 

As a Wolf player of the last 11 years, i have to say i hope to Fenris and Terra that isnt the reason they are there.

 

 

No way a single squad of any Marines could wipe out a Primarch. He would own the crap out of them.

 

 

WLK

[daveNYC]

The attachment of the Space Wolves was, if I remember correctly, to

assassinate Sanguinius if it should be required - not to bring the rest of the legion to heel. I think this plays down the Librarius link.

.

 

As a Wolf player of the last 11 years, i have to say i hope to Fenris and Terra that isnt the reason they are there.

 

 

No way a single squad of any Marines could wipe out a Primarch. He would own the crap out of them.

 

 

WLK

 

You're going to be a sad panda then. That's part of why I thought that sticking the

Space Wolves in there was a bad idea. Their mission didn't make any sense. Sure killing a traitor primarch would help out the war effort, but they just didn't have the resources to pull that off. At least in Nemesis the team had a plan and a giant x-ray laser to attempt the job. Plus the author decided to have the Space Wolves show off their independent character by getting snippy with the head of the sanguinary guard. Helpful tip, if you're there to spy on, and if necessary kill someone, a good first step is to not piss off his bodyguard. Perhaps there was more material in the original draft that did a better job of integrating them into the story, but the end result doesn't add much to the main story, and the Wolves don't come out looking very good either.

 

[Angel of Solitude]

So selected quotes are as follows:

 

 

"We know what must be done, brothers. From this moment onwards, a Space Wolf must be within reach of the Angel at all times."

 

"Malcador ordered this, by the Emperor's fiat and the Great Wolf's agreement...our deaths are assured. But we must do this. We must be ready to enact the ultimate sanction upon Sanguinius, if the moment comes."

 

[MadDoc]

the Wolves don't come out looking very good either.

What if that ^ was the point? What if one of the key reasons for their inclusion was to illustrate their overweening arrogance?

 

Besides, its not like the Wolves haven't acted with willful ignorance with regard to orders from above before, you just need to look at their flouting of the Edict of Nikaea with their continued use of psykers.

 

Just something to consider.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

unless they are all given vortex grenades or some biologically made primarch killing virus or some other such bs, then this has just gone pants-:cussting-retarded.

 

not as out there as the Alpha Legion infiltrating senior Legion commanders, but getting closer to the mary sue levels of the AL.

 

 

WLK

[Perrin]

I'm sure this came up in another thread that had a quote from James Swallow basically saying that the Wolves are used as a sort of tripwire system, so if a Primarch does turn, they try to kill him, obviously get obliterated, but then because they stop reporting back to Malcador he gets some kind of warning that something is wrong. Also that Malcador see's the Wolves as expendable, or more expandable than Custodes, who would be more likely to win against a Primarch.

 

The Wolves aren't told that part of the plan because they wouldnt go along with it otherwise, but im pretty sure that's what was said?

[Lord Ragnarok]

I hated the incusion of the Wolves. Was very much a waste of reading time. needed to be more developed or not included. Agree with WLK's assessment on th reason which was stated they were there.

I barely liked the inclusion of the Word Bearers as well.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I'm sure this came up in another thread that had a quote from James Swallow basically saying that the Wolves are used as a sort of tripwire system, so if a Primarch does turn, they try to kill him, obviously get obliterated, but then because they stop reporting back to Malcador he gets some kind of warning that something is wrong. Also that Malcador see's the Wolves as expendable, or more expandable than Custodes, who would be more likely to win against a Primarch.

 

The Wolves aren't told that part of the plan because they wouldnt go along with it otherwise, but im pretty sure that's what was said?

 

i do remember that appearing somewhere else here on B&C, so my nerd-rage is subdued...for now.

 

I havent read the book yet, hopefully will pick it up tomorrow. (but to be honest, as the BA series, i dont have high hopes for it)

 

WLK