Fear to tread

[daveNYC]

I'm sure this came up in another thread that had a quote from James Swallow basically saying that the Wolves are used as a sort of tripwire system, so if a Primarch does turn, they try to kill him, obviously get obliterated, but then because they stop reporting back to Malcador he gets some kind of warning that something is wrong. Also that Malcador see's the Wolves as expendable, or more expandable than Custodes, who would be more likely to win against a Primarch.

 

The Wolves aren't told that part of the plan because they wouldnt go along with it otherwise, but im pretty sure that's what was said?

 

If they were there as a tripwire, then

they really better remember that in the upcoming books, considering that the Wolves were all deader than disco by the end of the novel. Not that I think that's a particularly good explanation, the Word Bearers managed to fool a bunch of Custodes for over 50 years; and if a legion decided to break Nikea, they'd have the tools to rip whatever codes or signals out of their minders' minds in order to send back fake messages indicating compliance.

 

[Sublime Heresy]

I thought the book was...ok. Not great, but not the worst heresy novel by a good way.

 

I personally felt it didn't really do enough to develop a unique feel to the Blood Angels and their personality and feelings. They pretty much still got characterised just as "angry pretty marines" almost entirely. Contrast this with the treatment the Lunar Wolves got, and the World Eaters in various places, or ADBs Night Lords, and you'll see what I mean. Lots of complex interplay and relationships, and nothing as black and white as they first seemed. The BA's sadly were EXACTLY what they looked like at first glance, and I was just hoping for more depth (especially as I'm a big BA fan).

 

Another gripe:

At times it felt like a bloody product placement advert for Forgeworld. The whole series the marines used Thunderhawks and Stormbirds....but now one appearance each of a Caestus and Storm Eagle. The Caestus I can forgive given it's use, but the Eagle was totally blatant.

And "bolter" isn't enough for this book. No, one mention only of "Umbra-Ferrox pattern bolter". Buy yours from FW today!

 

 

 

I also agree with people that didnt like the Wolves inclusion. It seemd entirely pointless, and just felt it was because "everybody likes the pre-Heresy Wolves, put some in!". Quite jarring to me.

 

Lastly....

The Legion size seemd pretty vast. Well over 100,000 seems pretty huge compared to numbers thrown around previously, given they are far from the biggest Legion.

 

 

That said, there were good things too.

 

Sanguinisu fighting Ka'Bandha was done well. He even managed to write in the truly silly "500 dead with one blow" without it being TOO stupid. Still a bit silly, but it was established and had to be there really.

 

Ka'Bandha in general was good. It's nice to see a proper Bloodthirster....going to their origins, they were not just "HULK SMASH" blood raged things, but generals and master tacticians as well. Khorne is the god of War, as well as Blood, and they should embody that aspect too, which I felt he did.

 

Also, nice to finally have the Red Angel explained!

 

 

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Lastly....

The Legion size seemd pretty vast. Well over 100,000 seems pretty huge compared to numbers thrown around previously, given they are far from the biggest Legion.

 

The Ultramarines was listed with a pre-heresy strength of 25 chapters, each with 10 companies consisting of 1000 Astartes.

 

That's 250'000 Astartes and they are the largest legion out there.

 

The Blood Angels was one of the most renowned and succesful legions of the great crusade, having a strength half that of the Ultramarines is not huge. To be honest considering the meat grinders of Signus Prime AND the siege of Terra they would of had to be a fairly large legion in order to break down into no less than TEN succsesor (spelling?) chapters.

 

They had to have had a minimum of 10,000 marines left after the bloodiest and most costly battle in Human history (the siege of terra) and they are known to have been in the forefront of that battle while having enough surviviors to form more successors than the Imperial Fists and White Scars.

[Sublime Heresy]

Valid point, I hadn't thought of post Heresy numbers.

 

Mind you, just because they made 10 Chapters, it does NOT mean all 2nd Founding Chapters started at 100% strength, at all. I would be VERY shocked if any of them did frankly.

 

Do you have a source on the Ultra number you stated by the way? it sounds right, just wondering how "up to date" it is.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Valid point, I hadn't thought of post Heresy numbers.

 

Mind you, just because they made 10 Chapters, it does NOT mean all 2nd Founding Chapters started at 100% strength, at all. I would be VERY shocked if any of them did frankly.

 

Do you have a source on the Ultra number you stated by the way? it sounds right, just wondering how "up to date" it is.

 

It's quoted from know no fear. The book states the numbers and that 20 chapters where on Calth during the Word Bearer attack.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I'm sure this came up in another thread that had a quote from James Swallow basically saying that the Wolves are used as a sort of tripwire system, so if a Primarch does turn, they try to kill him, obviously get obliterated, but then because they stop reporting back to Malcador he gets some kind of warning that something is wrong. Also that Malcador see's the Wolves as expendable, or more expandable than Custodes, who would be more likely to win against a Primarch.

 

The Wolves aren't told that part of the plan because they wouldnt go along with it otherwise, but im pretty sure that's what was said?

 

i do remember that appearing somewhere else here on B&C, so my nerd-rage is subdued...for now.

 

I havent read the book yet, hopefully will pick it up tomorrow. (but to be honest, as the BA series, i dont have high hopes for it)

 

WLK

 

I would like to see that quote. If you find it let me know please.

[Gree]

I'm sure this came up in another thread that had a quote from James Swallow basically saying that the Wolves are used as a sort of tripwire system, so if a Primarch does turn, they try to kill him, obviously get obliterated, but then because they stop reporting back to Malcador he gets some kind of warning that something is wrong. Also that Malcador see's the Wolves as expendable, or more expandable than Custodes, who would be more likely to win against a Primarch.

 

The Wolves aren't told that part of the plan because they wouldnt go along with it otherwise, but im pretty sure that's what was said?

 

i do remember that appearing somewhere else here on B&C, so my nerd-rage is subdued...for now.

 

I havent read the book yet, hopefully will pick it up tomorrow. (but to be honest, as the BA series, i dont have high hopes for it)

 

WLK

 

I would like to see that quote. If you find it let me know please.

 

I provided it originally. I found it on the BL Bolthole.

 

"It was never the intention that the Wolves were being sent out as assassins; they were never "expected to be able to kill the Primarchs". It seems that there are some mistaken assumptions being made here, so let me explain.

 

After Magnus breaks the Nikaea edict, Malcador orders Russ to send a small contingent of Wolves out to each of the other primarchs. Their primary mission is to observe those primarchs and report back on any behaviour that might show sympathy to Magnus or anything that smacks of similar rebellion. Note that this is Malcador who gives the order, not the Emperor. At this point, the Emperor still trusts his sons; but the Sigillite doesn't trust anyone.

 

The Wolf "observers" (and Russ) know full well that this is potentially a suicide mission, because if any of the primarchs have turned, they could be killed on arrival or not long after - but if that happens, Russ and Malcador will know something is rotten when they don't report back at the appointed time. The Wolves know that if they find a primarch who has gone bad, their mission is to A) send a warning and B try to kill him.

 

None of the Wolves have any illusions about the fact that they will all die if they draw their weapons against a primarch; the SW captain Helik Redknife says exactly that in FTT. Even as "the Emperor's Executioners", the best they could possibly do would be to wound a primarch, perhaps slow him down. They know this going in, but they accept this duty because they are the Wolves of Russ and they do as he commands them.

 

So why send the Wolves instead of the Custodians?

 

First, it's a simple question of logistics. There are simply more Wolves than there are Custodians, and the Wolves are scattered out in the galaxy already at large, closer to the primarchs on the Great Crusade, whereas the Custodians are largely centred on Terra. It's just quicker and easier to re-task Space Wolf elements to hook up with the primarchs than to send out Custodians "the long way round".

And of course, not all of those Space Wolf squads will actually be able to fulfil their mission. Some won't be able to find the primarchs they are sent to observe, others will be killed as the heresy kicks off. Malcador will find out the hard way that his plan is too little, too late.

 

Secondly, if the intent was just to send out teams capable of killing a primarch, you'd need at least two Custodians to do the deed, probably three to be certain. That means sending more than fifty Custodians out into the galaxy, away from the actual job they are trained for and assigned to do, which is to protect the Emperor. Don't forget, the Custodians are a defensive army, not typically assigned to pro-active missions. Considering that some Custodians will already be leaving Terra to join the Wolves at the punishment of Prospero, do you really think that the Custodian Guard would accept an order from Malcador to leave their master with an even more reduced protection detail, especially at a time when one of his sons has just turned renegade and psionically invaded the Imperial Palace? Doesn't seem likely to me; not to mention the fact that the Custodians take their commands from the Emperor, not Malcador. The Sigillite doesn't actually have the right to give them that order.

 

The Wolves get the mission because they are the best tool for the job, in the right place at the right time, because they do the deeds that no others will accept, without question; and because, pragmatically speaking, Malcador sees them as disposable."

[Perrin]

Thanks Gree, i thought it was you that had posted it but i couldnt remember which thread it was in :)

My explanation was kind of close i think? To me it seems that it is more reinforcing of the Emperors loyal lapdogs view of the SW than the Emperors Executioners view.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Thanks Gree, i thought it was you that had posted it but i couldnt remember which thread it was in :)

My explanation was kind of close i think? To me it seems that it is more reinforcing of the Emperors loyal lapdogs view of the SW than the Emperors Executioners view.

 

lapdogs is a rather bias way of saying that.

 

I prefer to see it as the Emperor is the Alpha wolf, after his defeat of Russ, and the Rout is his pack. they follow the alpha wolf.

 

WLK

[sponsra]

So, if Malcador wants to send spies to check in on all the Primarchs because he doesn´t trust anyone at this point -why does he trust Russ over, for example, Guilliman or Dorn (not that the two where available or suitable for a mission such as this, but still, why doesn´t he distrusts Russ as he does everyone else?

[overloard]

So, if Malcador wants to send spies to check in on all the Primarchs because he doesn´t trust anyone at this point -why does he trust Russ over, for example, Guilliman or Dorn (not that the two where available or suitable for a mission such as this, but still, why doesn´t he distrusts Russ as he does everyone else?

Apparently because Russ already proved his loyalty by obeying Emperor's orders and destroying Magnus and Thousand Sons, and Custodes sent with him on mission probably reported back to Malcador that everything was "OK", while Guilliman was inaccessible and Dorn hates subterfuge, spying and deception.

[Angel of Solitude]

I don't think it has anything to do with trust, I think it's to do with availability / proximity:

 

Dorn - held up fortifying Terra / Sol.

Guilliman - too far away, blocked by warp storms.

Russ - available and in the right place.

 

Controversially, you could suggest that Rune Priests were also a consideration in Malcador's decision to send Space Wolves. Why include a Rune Priest in the detatchment assigned to the Blood Angels?

[Lord_Caerolion]

So, if Malcador wants to send spies to check in on all the Primarchs because he doesn´t trust anyone at this point -why does he trust Russ over, for example, Guilliman or Dorn (not that the two where available or suitable for a mission such as this, but still, why doesn´t he distrusts Russ as he does everyone else?

 

Because Russ and his boys were right there, while most other Legions were crazily far away. As for why he didn't send the Imperial Fists, their uses were required at Terra, fortifying the Imperial Palace, and probably as much of the rest of the Solar System as they could. The Space Wolves were relatively trustworthy, but they didn't have such a pressing duty as the Imperial Fists.

 

I doubt it had anything to do with the Rune Priests though, as I don't think Malcador would have gone through and picked individual squads/officers from the Wolves to send out. Secondly, their presence probably would have had a negative effect on ensuring the Nikaea Edict was upheld. After all, if you're told not to have psykers, but the guys sent to make sure you don't have any have a psyker themselves, then surely psykers aren't as bad as they're making out, right? I mean, if Malcador ok'd that psyker, why not your psyker?

[Sublime Heresy]

Not to mention the hypocrisy of Malcador himself being a very powerful psyker.

 

"Hi. This is a psyker serving your boss who is a psyker calling. I'm sending a psyker to make sure you have no psykers, because psykers are bad".

 

Hmmm.

[Angel of Solitude]

I doubt it had anything to do with the Rune Priests though, as I don't think Malcador would have gone through and picked individual squads/officers from the Wolves to send out. Secondly, their presence probably would have had a negative effect on ensuring the Nikaea Edict was upheld. After all, if you're told not to have psykers, but the guys sent to make sure you don't have any have a psyker themselves, then surely psykers aren't as bad as they're making out, right? I mean, if Malcador ok'd that psyker, why not your psyker?

These are the exact tensions between the Blood Angels and Space Wolves that we see bubbling throughout Fear to Tread. The point has been well made in other threads as to why the Space Wolves were allowed to retain their Rune Priests.

 

Sublime Heresy's point is an interesting one: Malcador, being well versed of the powers of the Warp, will be in an excellent position to understand how best to counter such forces. Therefore it is quite convenient for him to assign the Space Wolves to this task, being fully aware that they have in their ranks psykers who are able to operate without recourse. Now it could be that the selection of the Space Wolves was purely based on loyalty and proximity, but having recognised psykers is certainly a convenient additional benefit.

[Sublime Heresy]

Theres actually no proof that the Rune Priests are safe from the warp mind you. There's not even a definitive answer as to why they are allowed to keep them. I suspect it is because other chapters Libriarians followed teachings laid down by Magnus himself, where’s the Rune Priests didn’t. But Malcador should know full well that they aren’t safe from the warp necessarily.

 

Hell, we have one documented case of Rune Priest possession already in “Prospero Burns”.

[Angel of Solitude]

Apologies - when I meant "operate without recourse", I meant that they wouldn't be brought to account for disobeying the Nikaea Edict. As you point out, no 'psyker' is safe from the warp.

 

Rather, both the Dark Angels and Blood Angels independently reached the conclusion that the use of psychic powers - i.e. Librarians - was the only way that they could counter the forces of Chaos - hence why having the Rune Priests around would be a convenient additional benefit.

[Sublime Heresy]

Ah right, that makes sense. yep, i would agree there....Malcador would certainly know presumably that Psykers have a big edge when it comes to facing Chaos, so that would make sense.

[Haranin]

"Hi. This is a psyker serving your boss who is a psyker calling. I'm sending a psyker to make sure you have no psykers, because psykers are bad".

 

Actaully talked about this one with my wife... she used to work for the government, and her objection is governments actually *would* do something like that. :wub:

[Sublime Heresy]

"Hi. This is a psyker serving your boss who is a psyker calling. I'm sending a psyker to make sure you have no psykers, because psykers are bad".

 

Actaully talked about this one with my wife... she used to work for the government, and her objection is governments actually *would* do something like that. :tu:

 

 

Depressingly, you might have a point there....

[Lord Ragnarok]

"Hi. This is a psyker serving your boss who is a psyker calling. I'm sending a psyker to make sure you have no psykers, because psykers are bad".

 

Actaully talked about this one with my wife... she used to work for the government, and her objection is governments actually *would* do something like that. :P

 

 

Depressingly, you might have a point there....

 

Let's remember, it's a dictatorship. Might makes right.

 

Gree, thanks for re-posting.

 

I prefer to see it as the Emperor is the Alpha wolf, after his defeat of Russ, and the Rout is his pack. they follow the alpha wolf.

Yes

[warpedphonecian]

just finished fear to tread, just wanted to share some thoughts/ responses to other posters...

 

I'm one of the readers who has never loved James Swallow's work, but he nailed the Blood Angels in this book; it was very hard to put down. I felt like it was a better executed Know no Fear, with much better pacing and a reasonably-sized cast of characters who I really enjoyed meeting. there was no needlessly long list of dramatis personae as in KNF... Swallow did an incredible job illustrating the marines' brotherhood, and i think he really breathed life into the BA and strayed from 'bolter porn,' which was my biggest concern with this book.

 

I'm happy to have finally met Raldoron, since his only real descriptions were in A Thousand Sons and a small reference to great Imperial Heroes in The First Heretic, when Bowden compares Sevatar to the likes of Raldoron and Sigismund.

 

regarding space wolves:

 

I thought that the presence of the space wolves was to monitor the BA in the wake of Magnus' violation of the Nikaea edict. It would have made sense for a Terran contingent to be sent... would have made more sense to send Custodes but what the heck; All I took from their presence/consequent death at the hands of the 5th company was James Swallow's trying to emphasize that the loyalists are still unaware of who remains loyal to Terra, as stated by the head of the Sanguinary Guard. I don't try to look into their presence as much as other posters because they arrived at the BA fleet in the nick of time, but in the spirit of book's many self-fulfilling prophecies and visions, perhaps they were fated to arrive just in time ;)

 

 

so those are my thoughts... Remember the Red Angel in your prayers :)

[sponsra]

I love how the remembrancer, being a "sequensialist" complains about having lower status than his fellows. Sad to see that 28 000 years into the future comics is still frowned upon by high culture :)

[Lord_Caerolion]

would have made more sense to send Custodes

 

 

Well, no it wouldn't, because Malcador has no authority over the Custodes, only the Emperor does. Malcador can only send some Astartes, and probably some Sisters of Silence, which would have made more sense, but we're not sure who has authority over them. At the end, Malcador sent who he could actually send, who he could afford to lose, and who he was relatively assured of their loyalty.

 

[Arachnid99]

I came in with low expectations, I'm not a fan of the Blood Angels and only really bought the book because I need something for my morning commute and I didn't want to miss any general Heresy plot advancement.

 

Still here is my spoileriffic review

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having said that this has been a major game changer for me. I'm not a professional writer so I'm in no place to criticise but for me the quality of writing was significantly lower than most other books imho. Especially compared to A D-B and McNeill, there were far to many incidences of jarring dialogue and having to re-read paragraphs to work out what happened. As for the plot I'm not a fan, large sections of it struck me as un-necessary or counter-productive. While the post above explaining why the Wolves were there makes a great deal of sense and clears up that issue the fact that that post had to be made says a lot about the quality of the writing. If you are having to write blog posts explaining a novel it's a sign it's not very well written.

The antagonists are equally as important as the heroes in making a good book and here they sucked. The presence of the Word Bearers was necessary for the plot but the way they were handled struck me as very clumsy, they are both far more douche than monster. Horus was mostly off screen apart from his admittedly good final scene and while he exuded a degree of menace his jealousy over Sanguinius made him more interesting as a character but less effective as an antagonist. Kyriss struck me as a wimp and not at all Big Bad like, how the hell did he rise so high. Ka'Bandha however was one of the best and most interesting characters in the book, which only made it worse. Swallow manages the hard task of making a Bloodthirster interesting and deep which makes is flaws elsewhere more visible.

As for the heroes by the final page I honestly didn't care about any of them apart from Amit. If the Red Tear had landed on the lot I wouldn't have minded a bit. Sanguinius was a cypher, Raldoron was dull, Azkaellon a robot, Meros is until the finale one-dimensional and there is so set up for his sacrifice and Kano isn't much better. Amit in contrast was good, from his early appearances as the "truthspeaker" to borderline beserkerness he was an interesting, flawed character while his final scene in the book was very well handled suggesting as yet unplumbed depths. I really hope we see more of him, he has real potential as a "flawed hero"/anti-hero.

As far as the general depiction of the Blood Angels goes I've never been a fan and I'm still not. However my affection for them has gone up, just as the constant over exposure of the Wolves is gradually destroying my good opinion of my former second favourite Legion. The way they were treated in this book has put them firmly into the Iron Warriors/White Scars/Salamanders underdog being kicked around by GW category while all the attention is lavished on the same few Legions who appear in every book. At this point I'm expecting that the Battle of Terra will be Alpha Legion and Black Legion vs. Space Wolves and Ultramarines.