Fear to tread

[Tezzy]

Off the Wolves topic for a second, it's going to be very interesting to see Amit at the siege of Terra. Whilst not being whiter than white, he's certainly up there now as one of the most badass loyalist characters still available to take part. Amit squaring off against Khârn anyone?

[Arachnid99]

Off the Wolves topic for a second, it's going to be very interesting to see Amit at the siege of Terra. Whilst not being whiter than white, he's certainly up there now as one of the most badass loyalist characters still available to take part. Amit squaring off against Khârn anyone?

 

He's still not going to be the Emperors Champion Sigismund, who'll be wandering around the battlefield smiting heretic champions! No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear!

 

 

 

It's really odd how I can be completely logical and calm 24 year old talking about his hobby when discussing any other element for 40k; from Chapter sizes to the strategic results of the Sack of Prospero, yet the moment I start thinking about the Black Templars my keyboard gets taken over by some rage fuelled 13 year old zealot . :)

[Blindhamster]

I felt Fear to Tread was good, and I preferred it to a lot of the others.

 

However, It has to be said that despite what so many here have said, I don't believe for a second that Abnet would've done a better job (in fact, Abnets books are very much hit and miss IMO) And the only (non Novella) Horus Heresy Novels I got bored reading were Battle for the Abyss (like everyone else...) and... The First Heretic.... I love A-D-B, his night lord series is probably one of my favorite series of books by BL, but the first heretic just didn't grip me, so no... I think Swallow did good, it also was a good opportunity to prove he can do the BAs well... although I actually thought the latter couple of BA novels from 40k were improvements on the first two as well.

 

As for characters, Sanguinius was obviously written well, but I also really liked Meros and Kano, Raldoran was pretty good too and there were actually some very good scenes with him interacting with others. I felt we got a good view into the kind of 'man' he was, and he did get to have a pretty nifty close combat scene with a possessed Word bearer near the end (bolt gun to face = win)

[Kol Saresk]

I felt Fear to Tread was good, and I preferred it to a lot of the others.

 

However, It has to be said that despite what so many here have said, I don't believe for a second that Abnet would've done a better job (in fact, Abnets books are very much hit and miss IMO) And the only (non Novella) Horus Heresy Novels I got bored reading were Battle for the Abyss (like everyone else...) and... The First Heretic.... I love A-D-B, his night lord series is probably one of my favorite series of books by BL, but the first heretic just didn't grip me, so no... I think Swallow did good, it also was a good opportunity to prove he can do the BAs well... although I actually thought the latter couple of BA novels from 40k were improvements on the first two as well.

 

As for characters, Sanguinius was obviously written well, but I also really liked Meros and Kano, Raldoran was pretty good too and there were actually some very good scenes with him interacting with others. I felt we got a good view into the kind of 'man' he was, and he did get to have a pretty nifty close combat scene with a possessed Word bearer near the end (bolt gun to face = win)

Yeah just finished. I do see some of the points presented in the book, but they weren't as bad as everyone was making them sound. And I have somewhat found that with every James Swallow novel/short story I have read yet, most of the complaints aren't really about how the stories were written, it was they didn't like what happened and just pulled random excuses to make the story seem worse because James Swallow writes the Blood Angels as tragic heroes with Rafen being a tragic hero among tragic heroes and Fear to Tread was written in a similar manner with all those who knew of the Red Thirst having to carry the burden of not only hiding information but lying to and about their brothers while everyone else was living in "Ignorance is bliss but really it isn't mode". I will agree that Nemesis is perhaps his worst novel and by worst I mean, extremely cloak and dagger, just without the cloak. It was still decent, just not my flavor.

[A D-B]

Off the Wolves topic for a second, it's going to be very interesting to see Amit at the siege of Terra. Whilst not being whiter than white, he's certainly up there now as one of the most badass loyalist characters still available to take part. Amit squaring off against Khârn anyone?

 

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

[Arachnid99]

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

 

That would have been awesome but imagine how Gree and Legatus would have reacted to having a Blood Angel defend the sacred realm of Ultramar, the screams would have echoed through time and space.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

 

That would have been awesome but imagine how Gree and Legatus would have reacted to having a Blood Angel defend the sacred realm of Ultramar, the screams would have echoed through time and space.

 

so completely worh it then?

 

WLK

[Kol Saresk]

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

 

That would have been awesome but imagine how Gree and Legatus would have reacted to having a Blood Angel defend the sacred realm of Ultramar, the screams would have echoed through time and space.

 

so completely worh it then?

 

WLK

This is where you say "no" but shake your head "yes" as though your life depended on it.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

 

That would have been awesome but imagine how Gree and Legatus would have reacted to having a Blood Angel defend the sacred realm of Ultramar, the screams would have echoed through time and space.

 

so completely worh it then?

 

WLK

This is where you say "no" but shake your head "yes" as though your life depended on it.

 

LOL, I'm going to emulate my favorite Blood Angel right now and just say "Yes".

 

(Amrit is made of complete awesome. He is my fav character so far and everytime he does anything the urge to ally Flesh Tearers with my RG grows. Just about to finish the book so i doubt anybody can one up him)

 

WLK

[Haranin]

The Power of Logistics means that anyone can be great at defending Ultramar, so long as their ammo is provided through the logistics of Ultramar...

[Gree]

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

 

That would have been awesome but imagine how Gree and Legatus would have reacted to having a Blood Angel defend the sacred realm of Ultramar, the screams would have echoed through time and space.

 

I would have had no issue with a Blood Angel in Ultramar.

[A D-B]

Funnily enough, in my earliest ideas for Betrayer, I wanted Amit (as Khârn's ex-gladiator-pit partner and close friend) to be one of the main loyalist antagonists, stationed in Ultramar and fighting back the Word Bearers and World Eaters. Jim needed the entire Blood Angels Legion at Signus Prime, so it was obviously impossible for me to use Amit, but I was originally planning it to be a set up for Khârn and Amit facing each other again on Terra.

 

That would have been awesome but imagine how Gree and Legatus would have reacted to having a Blood Angel defend the sacred realm of Ultramar, the screams would have echoed through time and space.

 

I think they'd have liked it. It'd have shown the differences between the two loyalist Legions working together, as effectively as it should show the difference between the World Eaters and Word Bearers. A Legion's flavour - making it pop from the page - is a huge chunk of what a decent Heresy novel should do.

 

That said, if I'd made Amit into Defender of the Realm and the Ultramarines look like suckers, then yes, complaints (and perhaps lynching) would be deserved.

 

All moot now. We're safe.

[Purge The Weak]

Enjoyed the book, first part had me hooked, last part not so much.

[CyderPirate]

I loved the first half, the creepy Event Horizon-stylye whatthe:cusskery was excellent. The characters have gotten quite a slagging here and I'll agree I didn't get too attached to any of them, but I think Azkaelon, Raldaron and Amit were well-balanced characters that were likeable and fit into the way that JS portrayed the Legion. Sanguinius is an open and trusting Primarch, so he needs a trustworthy, confident and above all else paranoid guard captain. Amit's role as a nay-sayer has been covered elsewhere. The fact that R has such a cool head on his shoulders and his relationship with the Legion help Sanguinius get a sounding of the general mood of his warriors as well as getting sound advice.

 

A lot of the stuff said about the Deamons....yeah..... after all the hype, they turn out a bit lame.

[Legatus]

Seeing the Ultramarines side by side with another Legion would be neat. There is still the opinion going around that in general the other Legions did not like the Ultramarines because they were so pompous and arrogant, a notion which I suspect some BL/FW/GW authors might even hold to a degree, so it would have been great to see them getting along fine with another Legion. There were some examples of the Ultramarines cooperating with other Legions in the Index Astartes, and I would have assumed that the Blood Angels would have been one of the least Legions to take issues with Guilliman's approach to researching and sharing ideas and doctrines. Sanguinius is usually presented as a very reasonable Primarch, and the Blood Angels had never been described as set in traditional and old ways.

 

(As an aside, the current Codex Blood Angels mentions how Dante had sent three companies of Blood Angels to Ultramar to aid in the aftermath of the Hive Fleet Behemoth attack.)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

There is still the opinion going around that in general the other Legions did not like the Ultramarines because they were so pompous and arrogant, a notion which I suspect some BL/FW/GW authors might even hold to a degree, so it would have been great to see them getting along fine with another Legion.

 

I must have failed to pick this vibe up. Because other than the Word Bearers, some have cracked on the professional nature of the Ultramarines, none that i recall express ouright dislike of them. (which again, may be a failure on my part. as a UM player yourself, your more sensitive to this than I)

 

 

on topic, i finished the book finally, and have to say that overall i liked it. I was hesitant to give it a try, because frankly i dislike Swallow's previous HH and BA novels. But this wasnt bad.

 

my main bone to pick was the brief nature in which we dealt with Amit's actions on Signus. I think that could have been handed better, or atleast deserved more than the page or so it got.

 

but overall, suprisingly, I enjoyed the book.

 

WLK

[Garius]

Loved it. I came to the 40k and Horus Heresy story with no preconceived notions as to how the story was supposed to be laid out, which I feel has let me find more enjoyment in the various Heresy books. It's like when you see a movie, then read the book or vice versa, the one you experienced first sets the tone of your perceptions of the latter. With no expectations as to how each character should act I can better accept the way the author's portray each one. One of the benefits of discovering this vibrant and varied setting later in life.

[Honda]

yet the moment I start thinking about the Black Templars my keyboard gets taken over by some rage fuelled 13 year old zealot .

 

As you should. Nothing wrong there at all. :D

 

I just finished as well. I felt the first half build up was done very well and the whole passage through the Signus system was wild. I didn't think the second half was as strong, discounting the last scene with Horus.

 

I absolutely DESPISE Erebus. I maintain a very healthy desire to OBLITERATE the Word Bearers. Kudos to all the authors who have portrayed him/them to date. I do think that Amit actually stole the show. I've always thought the FTs were rather intriguing and this just makes them more interesting.

 

My favorite moment was when Sanguinius and Horus are discussing what happened after Horus is named Warmaster.

 

Horus: "Dorn shook my hand"

 

Sanguinius: "Coming from the Imperial Fist, that is nearly an outburst of joy".

 

I truly did laugh out loud over that.

 

I think the biggest disappointment in the back half was (borrowing from "The Incredibles") all the monologuing. A bit dry for me.

 

The other point that I use to evaluate a book is whether or not I want to build that army after I've finished. I'm strictly a loyalist kind of guy, But I really wanted to do Luna Wolves after Horus Rising. The Morlocks seemed like an awesome force in Fulgrim. I've always had a secret crush on Alpha Legion and have to build them. I've never been much of a Wolves aficianado, but had to consider them because of how impressive Abnett made them. AdMech started all sorts of modeling brainstorms.

 

I really didn't read anything that made me want to build the Angels. Maybe that will change once we get to Terra, but from that perspective, the description of the Blood Angels, didn't capture my imagination in the least.

 

As a hat tip to A-D-B, I am building Templars and Custodes, though the Custodes had been started a way back, it was First Heretic that inspired me to get them back out and make some progress (albeit slow).

 

In the end, I can say I was glad I read FTT, I think James did a better job with Eisenstein.

 

Cheers,

[Snickers]

Just finished fear to tread this week on the plane, just a few questions and opinions

Is erebus actually dead? I've read of astrates surviving alot worse injures

I also didn't really believe the whole "null blinding daemons thing"

The part with Ullanor really threw me through a loop, it didn't really fit the flow of the story I thought

The part with Meros (I think?) moment with Rafen felt like Swallow just going "Hey I wrote other books too, better read em!"

There was a post earlier saying something about Sangy losing round 1 with the bloodthirstier which would make their rematch on Terra so much epic. I so wish this happened, it seemed almost cartoony in the end.

Overall wasn't the worse horus heresy book, still have to give that one to False Gods

[Schultzhoffen]

@Snickers

 

Didn't read "Battle for the Abyss", I take it?

[Snickers]

@Schultzhoffen

 

I`m in the minority that actually liked Battle for the Abyss. False Gods was just soooooooooooooooo slow expect the for the part with the mute bodyguard fighting the zombie horde.

[Dark Apostle Erebus]

My apologies if this has already been explained but why does Horus rip Erebus' face off? What is the source of disagreement between them?

[Kol Saresk]

It's all in Fear to Tread. Apparently Erebus has told Horus what to do one too many times so he flayed his skin.

[Legatus]

Hm, does this book really mention the Flesh Tearers predecessors/founders? I am a bit disappointed in that. In 2nd Edition, the Flesh Tearers had explicitely not been a 2nd Founding Chapter. This was changed in the 3rd Edition Index Astartes article on the Flesh Tearers, possibly due to a misunderstanding by the author (Mathew Sprange) since the 3rd Edition Codex Blood Angels had simply listed the five known Blood Angels Successors without specifying their Foundings, whereas the 2nd Edition Codex Angels of Death had specified that only three were created during the Second Founding and the other two were simply two additional well known successors of later Founding. Or perhaps it was an intentional change because GW did not want to make the effort to produce an Index Astartes article for a Chapter that was not of First or Second Founding.

Till now there still was some hope that the Flesh Tearers are corrected and described as a later Founding Chapter, but since they have now been woven into the Horus Heresy story I guess that is unlikely.

 

 

OT: I missed this earlier, it seems.

 

There is still the opinion going around that in general the other Legions did not like the Ultramarines because they were so pompous and arrogant, a notion which I suspect some BL/FW/GW authors might even hold to a degree, so it would have been great to see them getting along fine with another Legion.

I must have failed to pick this vibe up. Because other than the Word Bearers, some have cracked on the professional nature of the Ultramarines, none that i recall express ouright dislike of them. (which again, may be a failure on my part. as a UM player yourself, your more sensitive to this than I)

Off the top of my head. In TFH when Lorgar tells Magnus how good it felt to strike down Guilliman, Magnus seemingly agrees that "some of our brothers should be put down a notch" (paraphrasing) or something to that effect. In Age of Darkness, Jonson feels that Guilliman is "a fool at best, a traitorous dog at worst" (paraphrasing). In the story about the Long Games at Carcharias (sp?) the Alpha Legions have it out for the Ultramarines and their successors in particular, which as sensitive as I may be on these issues tells me more about the athors point of view that about the Alpha Legion. In the 'Rites of Battle' sourcebook of the Deathwatch RPG, there is an Imperial Fists successor of later founding (the Hammers of Dorn) who are convinced that Guilliman imposed the entire Codex on the Legions, and that the Imperial Fists and the Ultramarines therefor had a deeply rooted rivalry. The author apparently subscribes to the not uncommon belief that that is exactly what happened, even though that is not actually supported by the background, which instead suggests that Dorn only really had issue with dividing his Legion, not with the Codex as a whole, and a long list of joint operations and apparent friendship between the Imperial Fists and the Ultramarines. Then there is the background for the Minotaurs in the 10th Imperial Armour book. Not only are they gunning for Ultramarines and their successors in particular, they are also taunting Ultramarine successors based on the (exaggerated) notion that Marneus Calgar is their "spiritual liege", which seems to be based much more on out-universe reading of the Codex Space Marines than on something an in-universe Chapter that did not have very close contact to the Ultramarines would be aware of. And then the Ultramarines are portrayed as huffing and puffing over the Minotaurs eradicating some of their successors, without really accomplishing anything.

 

So I do sometimes get the impression that there is an animosity towards the Ultramarines among the authors writing for GW/BL/FW/etc. that is not unlike to what I see represented among the fan community. Especially since in some cases the portrayal seems to be based on the exact same prejudices I have seen expressed, or on specific passages of the current Codex Space Marines.

[Kol Saresk]

Well, the animosity between Word Bearers and Ultramarines is understandable considering the fluff that existed even before the BL HH series. But do you perhaps mean Aurelian? The only interaction between the UM and the WB in TFH is at Monarchia, which is definitely not Lorgar "knocking Gulliman down a peg." And another part of it is that the Ultramarines are the "posterboys" for the Loyalist Space Marines. As such, it gives them this imaginary "prestige" that some feel requires them to take a bigger beating so the prestige is "earned" by fact of "they survived and won". Also keeps them on the equal level with the other Legions/Chapters in everyones eyes.