Battle reports 6.0 Ed.

[Snejk]

So, I'm not a very active gamer and I haven't played with the 6th Ed rules yet but i snook over to the BA forum and saw that they post quite a few bat reps on the 6th edition rules. Has anyone here played any games and can give the rest of us som reports on how it went?

[Sception]

With a new codex potentially as soon as next August, I've been holding off. One way or the other, I'll be playing a few games next month, and I'll try to throw together some reports with pictures. Can't promise I'll be any good, though, I kind of sat all of 5th edition out, so I'm way out of practice and don't know how anything works anymore.

[the jeske]

nothing got a lot better or more viable , a lot of stuff got worse , rest changed the same it did for other armies . we can try to play a gimik list with epid and nurgle mark stuff , but that is easy to counter by kill epidemus. everything else is the same gav dex list over and over again we have been playing for years.

[Brother Keyaetus]

Got a game with a new plague marine force, and watched a game or two of my brothers black legion that had a 10man strong terminator squad. In both games the terminators survival rate was far higher than it had been in the previous edition.

 

In my game (nurgle vs tau/marines) my plague marines themselves were unlucky, falling to small arms fire, wouldnt say due to the 5+ fnp, just fun dice gods shinanigans. And as predicted, my landraider and two vindicators mopped up all game simply because he assumed they'd be terrible and die fast due to hull points. I told people I'd make them regret knocking down my vindicators threat level ;)

 

Edit: Also, my sorceror had the 'puppet master' psychic power, and that was aloooot of fun.

[Trevak Dal]

I'm curious if anyone's tried using the 3.5 codex with 6th edition rules...World Eaters could be quite nasty so I've read, especially if one were to interpret their "move towards the closest enemy" thing as a Proto-version of Rage, which now gives +2 attacks on the Charge....

 

Yeah, no Weapon Skill 5...but 2 veteran skills and the All Mighty Chain Axes that make Terminators roll 4+ instead of 2+? Mmm. Not to mention Custom Built lords with Eternal Warrior, and other goodies-Daemon Princes with 2+ armor saves and other nastiness.

[Snejk]

Got a game with a new plague marine force, and watched a game or two of my brothers black legion that had a 10man strong terminator squad. In both games the terminators survival rate was far higher than it had been in the previous edition.

 

In my game (nurgle vs tau/marines) my plague marines themselves were unlucky, falling to small arms fire, wouldnt say due to the 5+ fnp, just fun dice gods shinanigans. And as predicted, my landraider and two vindicators mopped up all game simply because he assumed they'd be terrible and die fast due to hull points. I told people I'd make them regret knocking down my vindicators threat level :huh:

 

Edit: Also, my sorceror had the 'puppet master' psychic power, and that was aloooot of fun.

 

Yes, the Terminators survivability seems to have increased somewhat. I have 12 Termis that I'll give the MoT when I get to try the new edition. I'll try running a 10 man squad just to see how many bricks my opponent poops in his pants when they deep strike next to him and unleash their twin Reaper AC's. I'll also try out my winged sorcerer, a winged lord and a raptor squad just for the fun of it. Maybe I'll even pack all of them in one squad...

 

I just need to find some opponents others than the usuall guys I play against since they are all in for Apoc games, while I enjoy smaller games.

 

Too bad so many players just seem to wait for a new codex that may or may not come. We have what we have. Roll with it.

[TheDarkApostle]

Too bad so many players just seem to wait for a new codex that may or may not come. We have what we have. Roll with it.

We are rolling with it. By biding our time and waiting instead of wasting our time with a subpar 'dex we don't enjoy using.

 

TDA

[General Ravensong]

This is, roughly, my 3k list (double force org)

2 winged nurgle demon princes

2 squads of 7 PMs with double plasmas and icons

2 squads of 7 PM with flamers in rhinos with fistchamps

2 squads of 7 nurgle raptors with fistchamps and double melta

2 squads of 4 plague ogryn in landraiders

2 bastions with the skyfire lascannons

Epidemius with 10 plaguebearers

 

My first game was against Vanillamarines and he called it at the end of turn 2 when I got lucky shots off on his vindicators

Game two was against Tzeentch and Khorne Demons, and the tally hit 20 turn 2

game three was Big Guns vs Dark Eldar. 16 victory points to 1

 

I'm 3:0 so far for 6th edition and while I can't recall enough details for a true bat-rep, I will say that if you're able to protect Epidemius (I do this by getting him into the bastion as quickly as possible) the list is very solid.

The general strategy is to use the plague demons and ogryn as the main tip of my spear and support them with the raptors and flamer squads while the plasma squads camp in their bastions and babysit epidemius (and keep enemies away from home objectives).

I deepstrike the demons behind the bastion and the turn after that Epi ducks into the bastion while the plaguebearers shuffle towards a nearby objective. The bastions form a pretty excellent firebase, being able to pump out lots of ap2 fire as well as threaten incoming reserves.

 

Even though the raptors don't get feel no pain from Epi, I'm still pretty happy with them because they give me a more mobile option for hunting transports than my oblits do, and the extra bodies in the assault phase makes the Ogryn happy.

 

Interestingly enough, the main weakness of my list is also a strength as well: Epidemius.

All in all Epidemius is just over 100 points, and if I devote a plasmasquad and a bastion to protect him I'm spending about 400 points on him. If my opponent focuses fire on the bastion that means they're NOT paying enough attention to my raptors and ogryn that usually are in assault range by turn 3.

And if Epidemius does die? My raptors are still t5 raptors with 2 meltas and a fist, and my ogryn still wound on 2s with rerolls most of the time. And I'll probably have gained a lot of ground in the turns I do get Epidemius' boons

[the jeske]

Even though the raptors don't get feel no pain from Epi, I'm still pretty happy with them because they give me a more mobile option for hunting transports than my oblits do, and the extra bodies in the assault phase makes the Ogryn happy.

arent those flying nurgle thingies FA ? too far away from my vraks books to check .

[Sception]

Just had my first game of 6e with my Black Legion, and while it was close fought, in the end it was a victory for the forces of Chaos!

 

The forces of the chaos daemons I was playing against, anyway.

 

It was a 1k point game, very casual - we both just pulled models out until we got to 1000 points basically.

 

I had:

tzeentch sorcerer lord w/ termie armor, the signature & #6 telepathy spells, warlord with FNP for his unit near objectives

6 terminators with a couple champs, some plas, some melt, a heavy flamer, a couple fists, a pair of claws, and an IoCG.

defiler w/ 2x ccwep

9 CSMs with plas, IoCG, fist champ

8 CSMs with melt, IoCG, sword champ, rhino

 

He had:

skulltaker on jugger (really nice conversion, re-sculpted part of the cape to fit together), warlord scoring

herald of slaanesh on steed

10ish 'letters

10ish horrors

10ish seekers

winged prince of tzeentch with breath & gift

 

Normal deployment with objectives, scattering of area, ruin, & impassible terrain.

 

summary: He got the wrong half of his daemons first, and of that a unit scattered onto impassible and went back into reserves leaving him with only one unit on the table, though I couldn't draw line of sight to it so I couldn't wipe him off then and there. deep strike was all over the place for both of us, my sorcerer & his termies came down second turn, but scattered way off to land on the skulltaker, rolled a '2' for the mishap and ended up in a far corner. The terminators and seekers wasted the game fighting each other to no real effect, the bloodletters took out one squad of chaos marines then camped on an objective while the other squad of chaos marines took out his horrors and joined the defiler on another.

 

In the end, it was his tzeentch prince vs. my defiler and chaos marines in a scrum on an objective. He couldn't drop the defiler, and didn't wipe out the chaos marines, but the defiler in three rounds of combat couldn't put the prince down, first due to inept rolling and, in the last turn of the game, due to him passing 3/4 inv saves, leaving him with one wound left. He held one objective, and his prince was contesting the one I had troops on. Honestly, if he had remember his skulltaker was scoring he probably could have split it off to send it to a second objective and had me either way, but in the end it didn't matter.

 

Highlights: the whole thing was a comedy of errors. The defiler got two shots that game before being engaged by the prince, and the both scattered way, way off of their units. Two deep strike mishaps resulted in delayed horrors, and misplaced terminators. The sorcerer and the slaaneshi herald spent five rounds of close combat lightly fluffing each others' pillows without a single wound caused by either of them, while their retinues murdered each other.

 

Dice rolls were epic, even if it seemed to be a contest on who can roll the most ones (I think I lost more terminators to non-rending wounds than rending ones, and neither his prince nor my defiler could hit the broad side of a barn). And I got to bust out my black legion war cry:

 

"2, 4, 6, 8, which Legion has all the hate?

3, 5, 7, 9, step back, it's Black Legion time!

Wooooaaah Black Legion!"

 

All in all, it was tons of fun, but a lot of time was wasted looking things up. I'll have to play quite a few games of 6e before I'm comfortable enough with it to actually be making competent strategic decisions. Still, despite being stuck with the current codex a couple months longer than I had hoped, it was still enough fun that I'm excited to start working on models again, and it was cool to see a daemon army in action, since I plan to be picking some up as allies for my marines.

[incinerator950]

Don't have the rulebook or a pdf so I can't comment.

[grimsanity]

Played a 2000 point game yesterday my undivided with traitor guard against Templars. Out of my 20 plague marines I lost 4, land raider got immobilized. My traitor guard didn't far well lost my command squad and a 20 man infantry platoon but other then that there armor and vulture lived plus half of another infantry platoon lived. Chaos did all the heavy lifting and won it just need to work on the traitors. My chaos lost almost nothing. But my friends Templars did get alot of bad rolls.

[Azekai]

I just played my first 6th ed battle yesterday. It was 1300 points versus Iron Hands (dreadnought heavy build). Had a similar experience to Grimsanity in that all my Nurgle-marked stuff was nigh impossible to kill and my allied traitor guard quickly fell apart. Which is fine; that is their lot in life. B)

Terminators are rock-hard, and dealing with them is a chore. Probably should invest in some when that new codex drops.

 

Some things I really don't like about 6th ed at all. Overwatch + random charge length + the way shooting casualties are removed makes assaults quite difficult.

Shooting truly is king in this edition, even more so than in 5th.

 

Also the way saves are taken and LoS works means having to deal with some of the most counter-intuitive rules I have ever played with in a wargame.

 

Pre-measuring is a ;) and really slows down the game. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.

 

 

Other things, such as the versatility of rapid fire weapons or tweaks to special rules like Rage or Slow and Purposeful I think were good, but on the whole I think the game is clumsier and in places completely nonsensical.

[GreatEscape_13]

on the whole I think the game is clumsier and in places completely nonsensical.

 

I am finding that the game is only clumsier when my opponent has not thoroughly read the rules or I myself muck up a changed rule. On the whole it runs quite smooth. I would not blame the rules, so much as unfamiliarity with the rules.

 

The only "completely nonsensical" thing I have found is that hits rather than wounds cause a flying monstrous creature to have a chance to crash--so markerlights can cause them to plummet. Other than that, it feels much more streamlined and effective. There have been some goofy ally pairing lists running around the internet--of course--but I have yet to see a nonsensical ally pairing in actual play, and I have played 2 games a week pretty regularly since the book was released.

 

You need to play more wargames if pulling saves from the closest models is the most counter-intuitive thing you've ever experienced. Play some Sky Galleons of Mars from the Space: 1889 game to see truly counter-intuitive wargaming (for instance: some times 2d6 is additive, while other times you're looking for the higher of the two dice, with no rhyme or reason).

 

Pulling wounds from the direction of shooting is just something to get used to--I'm still learning how to best place my models, and watching maneuvers to control where I am forcing opponents to pull theirs. It's not "counter-intuitive", it is different from what we are used to. Those are two very different things.

 

Cheers.

[Sception]

I'd say barrage sniping - that mortar shells are more precise than sniper rifles - is also pretty nonsensical.

[the jeske]

I am finding that the game is only clumsier when my opponent has not thoroughly read the rules or I myself muck up a changed rule. On the whole it runs quite smooth. I would not blame the rules, so much as unfamiliarity with the rules.

have you ever shot/hit a unit of paladins/nobz ?

 

Other than that, it feels much more streamlined and effective

bullet bending ? WG termi with totem tanking 50+hits that are not ap2 ? warlord traits are totaly unbalanced , they buff meq [to be more precise loyalist] HQs the most.

[Azekai]

Pulling wounds from the direction of shooting is just something to get used to--I'm still learning how to best place my models, and watching maneuvers to control where I am forcing opponents to pull theirs. It's not "counter-intuitive", it is different from what we are used to. Those are two very different things.

 

Alas, if it were only so simple. Just a regular codex marine unit shooting another if fine, but when you are dealing with mixed save, character units (some of whom are in cover while others are not) it becomes a nightmare of shenanigans and nonsense. The fact that we need this flow chart is crazy. It is the exact opposite of simply pulling off the dudes that are closest to the enemy shooters.

[Excessus]

You don't need that flowchart, well at least I don't need it...

 

 

When people have actually tried to learn the rules, the games are going quick enough...

 

 

But are you people actually complaining that the game might take a few minutes longer? Seriously?

[Lepaca]

WG termi with totem tanking 50+hits that are not ap2 ?

 

Which totem do you mean?

[the jeske]

wolf totem lets you re-roll 1 . a WG can take a terminator armor . So he is +2/+3 re-rolling any 1s . I have seen him [well technicly with his unit] a charge of 30 guants.

[Sception]

That flow chart's bologna. Yeah, there are rules for splitting up dice into bunches if you need, but they're options and suggestions for speeding things up. The rules themselves are super simple, even in complex situations, handling each individual wound one at a time. Only hiccups are for look out sir rolls, or choosing to shoot only at the dudes in the open when part of the target is in cover.

 

Of course, resolving a mess of dice one at a time is quite slow, and as Jeske points out, look out sir, particularly in units of characters but even in regular units, allows for all manner of shenanigans and stupidity. The rules for targeting and allocation aren't good.

 

But they aren't anything like as over complicated as that flow chart makes out.

[Lepaca]

wolf totem lets you re-roll 1 . a WG can take a terminator armor . So he is +2/+3 re-rolling any 1s . I have seen him [well technicly with his unit] a charge of 30 guants.

 

Ah ok, you mean Wolf Standards. I was confused. Well, at least it only works in CC. :lol:

[Azekai]

That flow chart's bologna. Yeah, there are rules for splitting up dice into bunches if you need, but they're options and suggestions for speeding things up. The rules themselves are super simple, even in complex situations, handling each individual wound one at a time. Only hiccups are for look out sir rolls, or choosing to shoot only at the dudes in the open when part of the target is in cover.

 

How can that be baloney? It might not be how you organize your thought patterns but that is how wounding works.

 

And I am happy for you Excessus, but don't tell me that 6th wound allocation is better in any way than how it was in 5th. It is slow. I am not even sure what the game designers were aiming for; the fact that they removed wound shenanigans for the most part and then specifically gave it to units that were already 'death stars' is mind-boggling.

[Sception]

Only if you're trying to codify the 'faster dice rolling' suggestions in complicated situations where you're better off skipping them for the 'resolve each wound one at a time' default rules.

 

One at a time is the rules. The rest is suggestions for rolling multiple dice where doing so can be done conveniently while producing the same results, but the base rule is still one at a time. And the flow chart for one at a time is considerably simpler then the flow chart for resolving attacks in 5th edition.

 

So yeah, any time you're resolving attacks that are complicated enough to even require a flow chart, you should be resulting to the very simple one.

 

Measure range

Declair target. If the target has mixed cover, can choose to fire at the whole squad, or just the part in less cover, ignoring the rest.

create separate attack piles by weapon/BS/precision

Roll to hit with each pile, separating successful hits into piles by weapon/precision

for each hit pile, roll to wound against majority toughness, keeping piles separate

Attacker chooses wound piles one at a time until they're gone

- for regular wound piles, resolve saves & casualties one at a time on the closest target first (closest to attacking squad, or to center of barrage template). If that target is a character, the defender can Look out sir one at a time to reallocate to any other model in the same unit within 6" (the rules are unclear whether look out sir is made before or after saves are rolled)

- for precision piles, resolve saves & casualties one at a time on the attacker's choice of target w/in range, line of sight. If the target is a character, yadda yadda

 

 

And you know what? Yeah, that's way easier than what the flowchart makes out, and way easier than 5th edition, and in need of significant Q&A resolution, and still broken as hell thanks to LOS shenanigans, whether the abbreviation is standing for 'look out sir' or 'line of sight'. I'm not saying these are good rules, just that they're nowhere near as complicated as the linked flow chart makes out, due to trying to apply suggestions for rolling multiple dice in simple situations to complex situations which are better resolved by the 'one at a time' actual rules.

[Azekai]

And you know what? Yeah, that's way easier than what the flowchart makes out, and way easier than 5th edition, and in need of significant Q&A resolution, and still broken as hell thanks to LOS shenanigans, whether the abbreviation is standing for 'look out sir' or 'line of sight'. I'm not saying these are good rules, just that they're nowhere near as complicated as the linked flow chart makes out, due to trying to apply suggestions for rolling multiple dice in simple situations to complex situations which are better resolved by the 'one at a time' actual rules.

 

Well, you know what, Malisteen . . . that actually makes a lot of sense. In that first game I totally failed to make the distinction between 'batch' rolling versus 'one at a time' and then I came on here railing about it and it bit me in the arse.

My bad.

 

Need to play another game and hammer that out . . . but not against any nobz or paladins. <_<