What If: Horus Heresy movie chain/HBO series

[mactire]

Without sounding like a fanboy, id have to agree with A D-B, due to the sheer size of the heresy it would cost a fortune to produce a HBO type series and youd never have enough audience to justify it. I also feel that real actors would never be able to portray the power of the marines let alone the primarchs and this would then leave people p****d and drop the audience further. When you read how descriptive the books are about the Imperium, the warp and the demons i really feel that cgi or even (apologies in advance) cartoon would be the way to go. My young fella is mad for Star Wars and when you look at the clone wars animated series you can really see the potential for a dvd series also due to that graphic content of the battles i dont know if would be shown on tv but could be produced and sold in box sets or just for download. :cuss

[Blood Angel Scout]

Without sounding like a fanboy, id have to agree with A D-B, due to the sheer size of the heresy it would cost a fortune to produce a HBO type series and youd never have enough audience to justify it. I also feel that real actors would never be able to portray the power of the marines let alone the primarchs and this would then leave people p****d and drop the audience further. When you read how descriptive the books are about the Imperium, the warp and the demons i really feel that cgi or even (apologies in advance) cartoon would be the way to go. My young fella is mad for Star Wars and when you look at the clone wars animated series you can really see the potential for a dvd series also due to that graphic content of the battles i dont know if would be shown on tv but could be produced and sold in box sets or just for download. :cuss

 

Not a fanboy to see the sense in ADB's words, the same principles are involved for authors to consider when writing novels, in terms of connecting the audience (cynically us, the customer) to their characters and that will always be a driving factor for any entertainment based format but so will also finding a way to reach new audiences, hence new media channels to brodcast the message.

 

For example, I used to heavily collect 40K in 2nd and 3rd editions but life changed and I was unable to play so sold the army and lost connection with the hobby. However, through playing Dawn of War, it rekindled an awareness which led me to going on to GW's site for "old time sake" looking for the Space Marine novel of the mid 90's, a fantastic tale regardless of the retcons, noticing the HH series and all the developments over a 10 year period since my absense...well can definetly say I felt like a fanboy right then and there and dived right in, getting my hands on as much of the HH releases as fast as possible...my point after this, it brought me back through expansion, how else can it grow the audience further realistically which is why it won't be made as such, but the beauty of the net, what if, what if?

 

 

I agree completely about both the scale being too vast or just "live" acting the format requiring heavy cgi- Sin City/300/Spartacus style, some instances conveying exactly the sense of power of the HH or the potential of the animation involved in Clone Wars, obviously using a grimmerdark feel of course. As a baseline, take the modelling schematics from existing in-game footage from Space Marine i.e. interaction with the Guard Lieutenant or the Titan for scaling, enhancing it via TV production cash to make more "realistic", viewer-friendly and of course in the HH setting.

 

Could go down the route of FX's Archer series as this would be more suited to the niche audience that exists who would watch it aka Us but then as we can already see from some posts in various threads about how GW/BL/FW's products don't meet the imagination/desires some individuals and their reluctance to support said products, then the chances of this being produced for a mass-media audience is highly unlikely, instead remaining as small-budget (in relative terms to large studio/networks) dvd/digital releases as you suggest like the upcoming Lord Inquistior production, trailers/footage looks interesting or the Ultramarines Film...cue responses to what was wrong with that from the aforementioned disgruntled.

 

Unfortunatly, still haven't recieved contract offers from the studios on my original theory, maybe they've been waiting to see how I would do it...

[Artein]

Ooooh.... that was a joke, right? :rolleyes:

 

Nope. All those main characters you mentioned! All that screen time they get! All their vital and important roles! All the story-changing decisions they make!

 

See? I can do stupid sarcasm, too. The difference is, I'm right. If you think Game of Thrones doesn't have such widespread appeal in massive part to its female characters and the romance/sex, then you're hopelessly lost in a world of thrilling delusion. As an HBO series, no, the Heresy would need to be written verrrry differently. In fact, it would need to be written in the exact way that we're not allowed to write it.

 

I know, I know. You're right of course.

 

I was just trying to say that there were many women in HH novels. Some were not important, some were very important to the exact story said in this particular novel but not to the whole Horus Heresy.

 

It all depends whether we want to have movies / TV series based on novels or just on the event. Novel-based project would be too big, too expensive and.... yeah, not enough women and romance/sex. No one would invest in it. Event-based would be completely different thing. We can have a story following completely different characters from different legions. No Loken, no Garro, no Tarvitz, no Argel Tal. Different Marines, different remembrancers or other human characters, from Imperial Army or something. Different perspective.

I think that's the only way for the Horus Heresy to appear on a small/big screen. Is it doable? I think so. Will it ever happen? I don't think so. Too much work. Too much money to invest into it. Maybe in something line 10 or 20 years from now.... Unlikely.

 

But....

 

What about Horus Heresy comics?

[Crimson Hawk]

It would cost billions, have no viewers, and be forever referred to as: "The show that was as gay as Top Gun; where were all the women, anyway?"

A D-B has a point- it wouldn't work on T.V. On the other hand, I think it would work as 3+ movies- one for the events of False Gods, one for the Istvaans and Prospero, and one for the Seige of Terra. Obviously that's leaving a lot out, but, done right, it would still work.

[Captain Hwarang]

* Script writer(s):

 

For me, that's a no-brainer: ADB together with Graham McNeill. Most of you will probably brand me for a Heretic for not including Dan Abnett, but in my opinion, mister Abnett is the weakest writer concerning Space Marine stories / sagas, and to me, he should stick to Imperial Guard novels. No offence.

 

I brand thee heretic. :lol:

 

Abnett is my favorite writer, period. While I prefer his human stories over the Space marine stories, I find that that's a flaw with the space marines, not his writing. In my opinion, his HH books are by far the best. Especially Prospero Burns, although I think I'm in the minority on that.

 

I've yet to give a ADB a try, but Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night made me a Night Lords fan, so I look forward to trying out his stuff soon.

 

-CH

[Olis]

I've yet to give a ADB a try,

 

You won't regret reading A D-B's work, I can promise you that. His Night Lord books are really good.

[deepsix81]

It would cost billions, have no viewers, and be forever referred to as: "The show that was as gay as Top Gun; where were all the women, anyway?"

 

That´s why this is a forum thread and not a film.

 

 

It's a forum thread discussing how it would work as a film or a TV series. That's the whole, entire, absolute premise.

 

In other words, these discussions have already been had and summarily dismissed?

[Olis]

In other words, these discussions are not to be treated seriously as there will never be anything made that would come close to our wishlisting.

[nighthaunter666]

Konrad Curze: Nicolas Cage

 

No, just no. Please no, and a whole bag (with the word no on it) full of extra NO-ness. I'd rather see Keith Harris AND Orville playing Curze than Cage :P

[nighthaunter666]

I often wonder if anyone on here actually has a sense of humour? We all play with toy soldiers remember, best not to take that too seriously I find!

I'm nearly 40 and I play with little plastic men, I don't know about any of you but I find that worthy of mockery.

I'm not a troll, I just absolutely refuse to take myself seriously!

[Phoebus]

I don't know. At the very least, I could see the first three novels of the series being serialized - precisely because of the variety afforded in terms of main characters in the cast.

 

Horus would be a show-stealer, of course, but once we're past him, there's a nice balance that could be had in terms of screen-time. Six Astartes would vie for the most screen time: the Mournival, Maloghurst, and Qruze. In fact, though, it's Loken and Torgaddon who provide this perspective, with the rest either serving as semi- (and later, full-on) antagonists or as lesser characters altogether.

 

A slightly smaller number of characters would provide the "human perspective". Sinderman, Karkasy, Oliton, and Keeler. Karkasy is a lesser character, though, and much of Sinderman's screen time would - as with the novel - act as a sort of companion or counterpoint to Loken's own scenes. Oliton and Keeler also typically go either hand in hand or along with Loken and/or Sinderman, providing yet more consolidation of screen time.

 

That's the majority of your cast, right there. Most of the other names seen in the Dramatis Personae of "Horus Rising", "False Gods", and "Galaxy in Flames" are more or less bit characters or receive mentions rather than appearing outright. Worrying about Luc Sedirae, for instance, is akin to worrying about how much screen time to give the surly sailor-soldier from the Iron Isles who mocks Theon Greyjoy.

 

The nice thing about the first three books is that they don't necessarily center just on this huge Horus Heresy. You have a sort of naive idealism clashing against the brutal necessities and truth that come with waging a galactic war. You have a clash of beliefs in secularism by way of suppressing theist beliefs... with a neat twist in that both "good" and "bad" guys represent the resurgence of theism. In short, there's enough of a mix between action and social/religious conflict and discussion to keep things interesting.

 

Sex is really the one element that would be missing, as compared to "Game of Thrones", "Rome", "Deadwood", "The Sopranos", "Boardwalk Empire", and other hit shows HBO has put up.

 

I think it's a feasible story, but it would be prohibitively expensive. I can't even imagine the costs that would be involved in doing justice to Astartes battles. Once you start getting into all things Warp-related or void warfare, my brain gets numb.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Maybe something a tad bit smaller? Something more Pillars of the Earth in scope than a broad sweeping look at the Heresy. It would just be too big; Westeros/The East (well soon I hope) is having trouble fitting the whole tale in an hour and the HH would be even worse trying to fit in the little details. Pick or create a secondary character and just tell small snippets of the Heresy or a Band of Brothers with varying perspectives following the same unit. Following an expeditionary fleet would be pretty darned cool after all! Imperial Forces Commander (Firefly/Serenity Captain) who is subjugating worlds and being attached/used/abused/tricked by various SM Legions and Imperial forces, the officers/attaches underneath him, the problems that arise when the Heresy starts between units, the rise of the Cult of the Emperor. Then you could have all the fraternization, minimize the budget costs of showing superhumans ALL the time. Someone on this board once said that Space Marines should be to the average citizen as being "revered, distant and deadly" which would be ideal for the show. Maybe a show following the lives of different Imperial citizens like a child taken to be a clade assassin, a hive ganger, Rogue Trader on the Galactic edges, Eldar Ranger, Space Marine neophyte and have them all die when you like them ala George RR Martin :)

 

Trying to make a show Marine-centric is probably a bad idea for exactly the reasons outlined above: People who are not 40k fans just wont be able to relate. You guys underestimate HBO's power to sex it up though. I am sure they would come up with some sort of zany Slaanesh storyline to weave in. They are good those guys :) Still, you throw enough Guy-Candy up on the screen doing hypermasculine deeds and then have some secondary female characters or guest females can make moon-eyes at the Marines and have a "why it wont work" sideplot. Star Trek did enough time anomaly stuff that you could have a few episodes like that and True Blood uses that schtick of deodorant.

[lexicanuminquisor]

We do have to ask the question

 

Do they just start with the end of the age of strife first, then the unification wars, The start of the Primarch Project, The Great Crusade because if they do this then this is how is it should go

 

An HBO Series that introduces the audience to the universe of warhammer 40k(See comment above)

 

Hopefully interest builds after said series does well *crosses fingers*

 

An full length movie is produced which deals with -ACT 1 - the end of the great crusade culminating in the Ullanor Campagin, Horus's cornenation as WarMaster, His corruption at Davin , -ACT 2 - Corruption of the other primarchs , eventually leading up to the Burning of Propero -ACT 3-

 

 

Second Movie deals with the betreyal at Isstavan III , the battle of Diamat and ends with the Dropsite Masscare and the lauching of another series tentalivey called Warhammer-The Horus Hersey

 

Horus Hersey Series deals with said battles of the hersey

 

Third movie deals with the siege of Terra itself

 

and the end of that (If interest is still high) The Great Scrouring is chronicled leadin up the Reformation and The Second Founding which ends with

the tagline ...........The Age Of The Imperium has begun.............

 

which gives the writers 10,000 years to choose from on where the series should go next

 

Forgive me if I misplaced any information

 

These are just my two cents on how this license should be treated

 

Patrick Stewart for Roboute Guillimam!!!!!

[Bulwyf]

I've honestly wondered why GW doesn't do either stand alone movies or at least an animated show set in either Warhammer or 40k. This isn't the 1980's where only "nerds" are into anything remotely cool. Look at the massive success that we've seen from LotR, comic book, fantasy, Harry Potter, etc just in film. Then you look at how popular in television many "nerd" themed shows are doing. The interest is absolutely there. You just need to do it right.

[Rhetoricus]

As an HBO series, no, the Heresy would need to be written verrrry differently. In fact, it would need to be written in the exact way that we're not allowed to write it.

 

How would you write it?

How would you want to write it? (if you even would?)

I can't find a proper way to frame this question. Everything I try just sounds wrong. But i'll have a go anyway. In what way are you not allowed to write it? (if that makes any sense at all?) are you just referring to the sex thing? GW being worried that the show would become all about just that and not the story?

 

Cheers bro

[TennisBall]

A show about a bunch of guys shooting stuff wouldn't do well? Anyone heard of 'Band of Brothers'?

 

That aside, it would be too expensive to make and cgi would have to be used if doing marines. No human has the wide body of a marine and the sets would be too vast to do with sets. The sets in 'Game of Thrones' would be like a school play compared to what would be needed to pull off Imperial grandeur.

 

I don't see why though a film couldn't be done from the perspective of the remembrancers. Take one from the books or make up new ones, give them some love interest (non-marine) and follow them through the growing terror they face depending on what fleet they're based with. It would be interesting to see the ones from Fulgrim's ship that become corrupted along with everyone else. I would love to see The Maraviglia performance on the screen.

[blackoption]

Hypothetical: If I were to do it, I'd plan for a one shot movie but leave it open for a sequel. Movies are a business, and thus need to make money. If my team were successful enough, then sequels could be an option.

 

I'd probably focus on a single legion (I'm thinking Emperor's Children or Imperial Fists), pre-Ullanor time frame in the crusade. The plot line would have a remebrancer whose goes along with the Astartes as chronicler in a very similiar fashion to Prospero Burns. For it to have maximum appeal, the story needs to have the human element separated from the Astartes. The primarchs should be background presences at most and the Emperor should be whispered about. Alternatively, transcribe Prospero Burns into a movie script...

 

This way the viewers can be educated through the film about the astartes and the emperor. Particularly if the remembrancer is from a newly compliant imperial world. The viewer would learn about the dangers, challenges, and triumphs of the great crusade through his (or more likely: her) eyes. The specifics will depend upon the script writer, but a good one would be able to build the foundations for the later films to go on. I'd personally leave the story (where) after the xenos/resistant humans are finally put down after a suitably heroic battle, the rembrancer learns that a even greater battle will take place at Ullanor.

 

(on a side note, I'd lean towards the Emperor Children as the focused legion for the story mainly for the shock value that would happen when they turn traitor in the storyline for the uninformed)

 

Practical: The Horus Heresy is too big to be done in one movie. That project would need to be built one movie at a time that constantly adds to the story. I personally think CGI or cartoons would be the way to go, initially at least.

[TennisBall]

Cartoon maybe, but not the style of Clone Wars.

The Horus Heresy cannot be done in a film or even three. That's like trying to fit WWII into a film, the best you can hope for is a battle or some other event.

 

No long winded introductions, people can learn about the universe through watching the film. A brief introduction on how man rose, fell, and is now rising again is all that's needed. Personally I'd start it with people in a small ship flying over what looks like a futuristic city and then coming into land. Pan out and you see that the city is actually one of the larger Imperial ships, say 'Pride of the Emperor'. That would set the scale. The rest could be set onboard.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Obviously we have to overlook the profitability aspect of this idea. As A D-B said, it's basically impossible. That said, we can still sort out how it could be awesome and done right, despite what viewership it might feasibly manage.

 

 

As far as WHAT to show, they should just straight up turn the Horus Heresy novels into a series.

 

The benefit of a TV show is that you get to SEE and HEAR all the various characters, so it becomes a lot easier to keep who's who sorted out in your head, even if you get names mixed up.

 

Where the novels focus on one set of events at a time, and a whole novel will feature a certain set of characters from start to finish, and then the next novel has its own set, a TV show can genuinely tell the whole story in chronological order, bouncing back and forth from faction to faction, and from one major event to another.

Like, half of an episode can feature one major event, and then the other half of the episode can feature another, and they can just trade off between major simultaneous events every few episodes. People will still be able to follow it, because they can see and hear the actors and really witness the characters' mannerisms, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming a Live Action version, most of you guys are picking guys who are waaaaaay too old to play Primarchs. Marines can be older dudes, since they age, but the Primarchs themselves shouldn't venture too far from the 30yo-ish range. I'd say 25-45 would be the Primarch actor age range, starting in the "Sanguinius and Fulgrim are ridiculously pretty" range, and allowing for other Primarchs, who are just kinda rugged and battle-worn, that could still be their brothers.

 

 

Here's my "Live Action version" cast list:

The Emperor: Gregory Peck (circa Roman Holiday)/Peter Cullen

Malcador The Sigilite: Max von Sydow (because McKellan and Lee aren't allowed to play "wizards" anymore without everyone going "Hey look, it's Gandalf/Magneto and Saruman!"

 

Lion El'Jonson: Sean Bean

Fulgrim: Tom Hiddleston/Jonathan Rhys Meyers

Perturabo: Vinnie Jones

Jaghatai Khan: Ken Watanabe

Leman Russ:

Rogal Dorn: Kevin Mckidd

Konrad Curze/Night Haunter: Michael Fassbender

Sanguinus: Alexander Skarsgård

Ferrus Manus: Ray Stevenson

Angron: Nathan Jones (Until someone proves to me that Angron is exceptionally short for a Primarch, he IS Nathan Jones.)

Roboute Guilliman: Daniel Craig (I think he is the ONLY option for Guilliman I've ever been able to take seriously with Guilliman's proper blond hair.)

Mortarion: Clive Owen/Christopher Eccleston

Magnus The Red: Oded Fehr

The Warmaster Horus "Lupercal": Ewan McGregor (Counterintuitivly, this seems like the ONLY good option I've heard. Horus has to be both commanding and charming, and seem like he could be friends with his brothers, but then he still has to be able to go serious/haunted/evil. I think McGregor might actually be able to pull it off... The actor for Horus has to be able to strike a really weird balance.)

Lorgar "Aurelian": Michael Cerveris

Vulkan: Ron Perlman (remember, all of the Primarchs are ethnically the same as The Emperor, and Vulkan just has a mutation that gives him coal black skin.)

Corvus Corax: Christian Bale/Tom Hardy

Alpharius & Omegon: Sam Worthington

 

ULTRAMARINES

Marius Gage: Jeremy Irons

Aeonid Thiel: James Purefoy

 

EMPEROR'S CHILDREN

Eidolon: Jason Isaacs

Luicus The Eternal: Joaquin Phoenix

Saul Tarvitz: Viggo Mortensen

 

WORD BEARERS

Kor Phaeron: Peter Stormare

Erebus: Christopher Heyerdahl

 

LUNA WOLVES/SONS OF HORUS/BLACK LEGION

Garviel Loken:

Ezekyle Abaddon The Dispoiler:

Tarik Torgaddon: Bruce Willis

Horus Aximand:

Iacton Qruze: Sam Elliott

 

DEATH GUARD

Typhus: Michael Dorn

Nathaniel Garro: Russell Crowe

 

WORLD EATERS

Khârn The Betrayer: Chris Hemsworth

 

THOUSAND SONS

Ahriman: Mark Strong

 

OTHERS

Kyrill Sindermann: Anthony Hopkins

 

 

 

Far from perfect or even complete, but it's still the best of all the suggestions I've seen.

 

 

 

 

Just FYI, since some people here don't seem to be aware, Michael Clarke Duncan died a couple weeks back.

[Rain]

Yeah this would obviously never happen. The market is too niche and the cost would be too high to do anything close to a "faithful" adaptation of the universe. Not to mention how much backstory and exposition would be needed on things that we as longtime fans take for granted like what a primarch is, what a marine is, who/what the Emperor is, and a lot of background like the scattering and reunification of primarchs, why only 18 legions are ever mentioned etc.

 

Hell, it looks like they aren't even going to be filming the Dark Tower series (after a lot of talk that it would be done) and that is a lot more mainstream than Warhammer with concepts that don't need nearly as much explanation as all of the main characters are human and the stories/universe are pretty self contained and not written into a mythology and world that had already existed for 20 years.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Okay, updated my list.

I really like the list now.

Some of them seem a little off until you stop and really consider how they'd work, like Fassbender as Curze. He can be regal and good-intentioned AND dark and menacing AND tormented and brooding, and he'd never come off as too nice to be a villain, seeming inherently evil, OR as a whiny emo.

 

 

Now I'm annoyed that I can't figure out someone to be a convincing Leman Russ.

I can't think of anyone who is Norse, gruff, feral, rowdy, intense, commanding, and bombastic enough at the same time.

 

And I'm really happy I finally came up with Clancy Brown for Abaddon. That's the first and only time anyone has seemed like they could be a remotely convincing Abaddon.

[Wookie Archangel]

I know who could be Leman Russ....

- Bulvy, the head viking from the 13th Warrior with Antonio Banderas :lol:

[Crimson Hawk]

A completely random thought just popped into my head (which they usually do)- what if they did the Heresy like Downton Abbey*? Stay with me here, I've not gone completely mental. The story could be presented through the eyes of both powerful Astartes and Primarchs, and the more human Remembrancers, like Karasky and co. This would allow for enough Omygodlolwhatthefragbarbeque !!!one!!! action to satisfy teh fanz, and enough human emotion / love intrest to be a hit, not to mention presenting female characters as central characters, even if they don't contribute enormously to the plot. To pull this off however, the writer and director would have to take pains to ensure that the 'lesser' characters were just as, if not more compelling than their superhuman counterparts.

 

*Downton Abbey is a British period drama that chronicles the events that befall the inhabitants of the titular house.

[EPK]

Angron Walken

 

 

The story could be presented through the eyes of both powerful Astartes and Primarchs, and the more human Remembrancers, like Karasky and co.

Some of the novels actually do this already.

[Captain Semper]

Hahaha! This is sick EPK! The answer to how to make Angron really scary! Hahaha ^_^