Cmdr Shepard Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Greeting Battle Brothers, I'm trying to build a list around all of the three Dreadknights I have (hence the somehow inaccurate title "Dreadknights spam" :( ) Do you have any suggestion on the army's composition? I plan to build a 2000 pts army. I'm thinking to use Heavy Incinerators then once the majority of the units have been chosen I'll see if I have the points for personal teleporters. I tried to write several lists (Coteaz and henchmen, strike squads with various HQs) but I didn't find an effective build. Can you help me? Thanks for your assistance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 GKGM (for Scoring DKs) 3 x NDK with PT, Incinerator and Sword. Whatever Troops you desire. Possibly Coteaz and minimal Henchment Units. Or MSU Strikes. You could add in some Interceptors to accopany the NDK, and leave them for scoring only in the Mission that lets Fast units score. So, something like; HQ: GKGM (175) HQ: Coteaz (100) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Fast: Interceptor x5 (130) Fast: Interceptor x5 (130) Fast: Interceptor x5 (130) Heavy: NDK, PT, H Incinerator, Greatsword (260) Heavy: NDK, PT, H Incinerator, Greatsword (260) Heavy: NDK, PT, H Incinerator, Greatsword (260) Total: 1,817 From there, you could add a NFH to the Interceptors Justicars. Drop a Henchman unit and bring a GKT/Pally unit for the GKGM/Coteaz to run with. Maybe; HQ: GKGM (175) HQ: Coteaz (100) Elite: Paladin x5, Psycannon x2 (315) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x3, Psybolt Razorback (62) Fast: Interceptor x5, 1 x NFH (135) Fast: Interceptor x5, 1 x NFH (135) Heavy: NDK, PT, H Incinerator, Greatsword (260) Heavy: NDK, PT, H Incinerator, Greatsword (260) Heavy: NDK, PT, H Incinerator, Greatsword (260) Total: 1,950 Or something like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I recommend MSU Strikes. As many as you can pack in. They are more durable and flexible then henchmen, they also afford you more flexibility with what ICs you take (i.e. Coteaz is not required). Take a GM if you want a shot at making one or more of the Dreadknights scoring...but honestly, since they're going to take so much punishment/attention and you'll be spamming Troops otherwise, I'd skip that that idea entirely. Give one or two of them teleporters and put them deep early to take advantage of how much attention they can garner. Make your opponent split his or fire or at least make tough choices as to what they fire at when. I like this list idea. A lot. Now I need to talk myself out of buying two more DKs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Three Dreadknights, two large Terminator blobs, whatever HQs you want. Walk forward shooting psycannons while the Dreadknights teleport behind things and set them on fire ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hmmm, yes, the two Terminator blobs will make your opponent make very hard choices, hit the 3 knights in his deployment zone or focus on the huge amount of terminators bearing down on him, what to do, what to do.... ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I´ve written me such a 2000 points list myself, too. Libby: halbert, 3 Powers 2x5 Terminators: 1 hammer, 4 halberts, 1 psycannon 2x10 Interceptors: 1 hammer, 2 psycannons (2nd squad with 2 incinnerators) 3 NDK: sword, HI, PT The idea is that the NDK and the Interceptors are porting 30" first round and lay havoc with their weapons. The enemy will have a hard time to decide which unit to take out first. If he choose the Interceptors the three NDK will rip him apart. If he goes for the NDK the Interceptors will shot him into pieces and the remaining NDK will deliever the deathblow. The two terminator squads will stay behing and secure mission objects. I think they will be quite save behind the NDK and Interceptors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm glad you like my idea, Battle Brothers ^_^ You gave me very useful suggestions. For now I'd like to build a pure GK list without Coteaz and his hennchemen, even though they gave me an idea for a second FOC. Just fill the second HQ with Coteaz and the minimum numbers of troops to unlock the access to other three DKs. I don't know if this could be effective but it's worth of a try in the future :) Anyway I really like the idea of Strike MSU and TDA blobs, supported, eventually, by interceptors. Using all the 6 troop choices for 5 men Strike Squads with psycannon and hammer (I'm unsure I'll need a hammer in every MSU) and equiping the three DKs with Heavy Incinerator and PT I reach 1425 pts. I have a lot of points for a HQ and for adding a 10 men interceptors squad. If I field the two TDA blobs plus the DK I'll reach 1605 pts. There are still points for at least a Stike Squad MSU to hold the objective in my deployment zone and a decent HQ. The only thing that worries me is the lack of dedicated A/A weaponery. I'm aware flyers may not be the utmost threat we thought when 6th was released. The limited manoeuvrability, the firing arcs etc will reduce the number of viable targets but I suppose I must have a plan if I meet them. Beside I'm not sure about the Greatsword. Its ability to grant relloling even when using DCCW it's a little controversial and if I have to choose I suppose the S10 attacks would be a better choice since they cause ID to most models, including bikers. Beside since MC no longer roll 2d6 against armour and S6 cannot touch AV 13/14 vehicles. Do you have any confirmation on the Sword giving rerolls to DCCW as well? I like this list idea. A lot. Now I need to talk myself out of buying two more DKs. When I bought three Dreadknights many players in my gaming community thought it was a waste of money (several persons never liked DKs), now those models can be a very useful asset ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 You could use the Greatsword with a S10 'Smash' attack. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 You could use the Greatsword with a S10 'Smash' attack. ;) But that means half of the base attacks. I won't gain a substantial advantage.... Anyway I'm about to complete two DreadKnights lists, one with MSU strike squads and the other with TDA blobs. I'll post them as soon as I complete them ;) I have just to decide the HQ: TDA Inquisitor with psycannon, Librarian, Grand Master with grenades collection? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Reroll on half attacks > twice the attacks with no reroll. :) As you get to reroll both hits and penetration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'd field this, just need 2 more DKs... Cotaez - 100 Ordo Malleus inquisitor, Psyker (Divination), Psycannon - 110 10x Terminators, 2x Psycannons - 450 10 Strikes, Psybolts, hammer, 2x Psycannon, Rhino - 290 5x Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback w Psybolts - 160 5x Strikes, Psycannon, Razorback w Psybolts - 160 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors, 7x Acolytes - 100 Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator - 235 Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator - 235 Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator - 160 It contains the core of the list I've been using for the past while, but with 3 DKs. 1 doesn't have a teleporter, so I'm not sure if that's ideal, but he can still deepstrike... Alternatively: Ordo Malleus inquisitor, Psyker (Divination), Psycannon, Sevo Skull - 110 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, Psyker (Divination), Rad Grenades, Psychotroke Grenades, 3 Servo Skulls - 102 10x Terminators, 2x Psycannons - 450 10x Terminators, 2x Psycannons - 450 Stormraven - 205 Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator - 235 Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator - 235 Dreadknight, Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator - 235 2K on the dot... Servo Skulls to Deepstrike... all 2+ saves. except for that Grenade toting inquisitor, who should be hiding in the mob of terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Reroll on half attacks > twice the attacks with no reroll. :) As you get to reroll both hits and penetration. Actually the have the same pen chance vs AV14 With DCCW DK makes 6 attacks when he charges. He hits the vehicle on 3+ (providing it has moved) for 4 hits. You glance on 4, pen on 5+ for an average 0.667 glances and 1.333 penetrations hits. With rerolling to hit and armour pen "Smash" you get 3 attacks, hit on 3+ rerolling failed rolls for 2.667 hits. Then you got the same glance/pen chances of above. Same chances but you pay for the greatsword. @ TheDarkOne: I had the same idea of HQs. Inquisitors seem the best choices for this army. They are cheaper than other HQs (leaving a good amount of points to our DKs) and the can be psykers for the divination power. Anyway I just wrote the MSU list and the two FOC one for *roll of dums* 6 Dreadknights :) I'll write my TDA list soon so we can exchange our opinions on the different builds ;) MK1 (Dreadknights, Interceptors and MSU Strikers) HQ Ordo Malleus Inquisitor TDA, Psycannon, Psyker with Divination Troops 5X 5 men Strike Squad Psycannon and Hammer 1X 6 men Strike Squad Psycannon and Hammer Fast Attack 10 men Interceptor Squad 2 Incinerators, Psyammo Heave Support 3 Dreadknights Heavy Incinerator and Personal Teleporter Fortification: Imperial Bastion with Quad Gun (for some A/A) It should be exactly 2000 pts. MK2 (Coteaz and 6 Dreadknights) 1st detachment HQ Ordo Xeno Inquisitor Conversion Beamer Troops 5 men Strike Squad Psycannon and Hammer 8 men Strike Squad Psycannon and Hammer Heavy Suppport 3 Dreadknights Heavy Incinerator and Personal Teleporter 2nd Detachment HQ Coteaz Troops 1st Henchmen unit 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero and 7 acolytes with bolter 2nd Henchmen unit 12 acolytes with bolter Heavy support 3 Dreadknights Heavy Incinerator. Fortifications: Imperial Bastion with quad gun I should have 20 spare points to use for upgrades or an additional PAGK Coteaz, Conversion beamer and 1st henchmen unit go on bastion's roof for a nice 3++ cover with a chance to fire on flanking units with a good fire power. PT DK move fast towards enemy while the other three follow. Once the enemy succeed in killing the 3 PT DK they have three more DK near them. Strikers secure other objectives. I don't know if MK2 list is effective but I think it could be fun. For now I'll focus on the 3 DK builds. As I said above I'll try to make a TDA list following the suggestions from this topic ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 With rerolling to hit and armour pen "Smash" you get 3 attacks, hit on 3+ rerolling failed rolls for 2.667 hits. Then you got the same glance/pen chances of above.Same chances but you pay for the greatsword. The smash lets you reroll wounds/pens? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 With rerolling to hit and armour pen "Smash" you get 3 attacks, hit on 3+ rerolling failed rolls for 2.667 hits. Then you got the same glance/pen chances of above.Same chances but you pay for the greatsword. The smash lets you reroll wounds/pens? I was talking about the Greatsword. EDIT: Smash does allow you to reroll armour penetration rolls. My point was: you have the same chances with DCCWs and Greatsword+Smash. With DCCW you save several points :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3130989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hmm you all have such interesting ideas! It's gotten me thinking, and as I prefer Drago wing is there a way to combine the 2? Here Goes! Hq: 275 Drago Troops: 945 10x Paladins: 725 4x Psycannons 1x Stave 1x Apothocary 4x Solo Paladins :220 Heavy: 780 3x Dreadknight 1x Personal Teleporter 1x Heavy Incenerator 1x Great Sword Total: 2000 on the dot! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have a question . If this suppose to be a NDK spam list at 2k . why only 3NDKs and not 5 or 6 . you could take a GM strike as troops for one section and cortez + 2 henchman units for the other one . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Well in my case the people in my area are of the belief that the double force org is too unbalanced and should never be used.... *sigh* so much for my 9th co list... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 bummer then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have a question . If this suppose to be a NDK spam list at 2k . why only 3NDKs and not 5 or 6 . you could take a GM strike as troops for one section and cortez + 2 henchman units for the other one . For three reasons: 1. With a Single FOC you can field only three and the second FOC will require additional HQ and troops 2. As I wrote and the original post "I'm trying to build a list around all of the three Dreadknights I have (hence the somehow inaccurate title "Dreadknights spam") 3. You didn't see I actually posted a list with 6 DKs, just read the post above :) Well in my case the people in my area are of the belief that the double force org is too unbalanced and should never be used.... *sigh* so much for my 9th co list... Sorry but this approach is unfair. You should tell them. It's the rulebook who allows you to field two FOC. If we agree with such approach we could easily say "I think focus fire or skyfire rules are unbalanced, thus I don't allow my opponent to use them". it's clearly unfair. We have a rulebook and we can play by its rule, if they don't like them they are not forced to play. I think they are discriminating you. EDIT: Hmm you all have such interesting ideas! It's gotten me thinking, and as I prefer Drago wing is there a way to combine the 2? Here Goes! I really to use Draigo to represent my custom made (fluff wise, of course :) ) Grand Master but everytime I find a little more stressing playing Paladins heavy lists, since every time your oppone focus his fire on them you fear to lose the main bulk of the army. I recognize the presence of DK will offer multiple targets to my opponets. Your list seems to lack A/A weapons and even though the enemy flyers succeed in killing one Paladin per turn they are ruining your day. I never played "solodins" because I suspect they are an easy target. How did they perform in your army? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I hope to try it out tonight, the solodins are mainly for objective taking, hold them in deep strike as long as possible via psychic communication then drop them on the objectives. also that 2 wound termie should be good for holding up any basic squad as they can challenge any power-fist equivalent and knock em out before getting hurt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 3 DK's is not DK spam. 6 is. Commit to theme or don't bother :cuss Primary: HQ: Coteaz (100 points) Grandmaster w/sword (175 points) Troops: (2) 3 x Acolytes (12 points each) Heavy Support: (3) Dreadknight w/greatsword, heavy incinerator, teleporter (260 points each) Secondary: HQ: Grandmaster w/sword (175 points) Troops: (2) 3 x Acolytes (12 points each) Heavy Support: (3) Dreadknight w/greatsword, heavy incinerator, teleporter (260 points each) 2,058pts so far. Drop two heavy incinerators to squeeze into 2k (add bolters to Acolytes to make up the 2pts if people complain about not being 2k). Add whatever you like for 2,500 points, I'm guessing Ravens and maybe some psycannons on the Grandmasters (for lulz). Grandmasters grant scoring for most of the Dreadknights, Acolytes hide on objectives and get ignored, Coteaz denies 'Seize' by Vect and Imotekh. Six Dreadknights... 'Grandmaster Horatio, with our honoured brothers deployed, the daemons are running for cover' 'I guess that means... :lol: they dread knights' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 3 DK's is not DK spam. 6 is. Commit to theme or don't bother :tu: I already posted a 6 DK list but it seems no one noticed it. May I ask what's wrong with that list? I'm curious to know how to improve it, if it is needed. By the way I plan to write a list for match I'll play next week so I have to use the 3 DK I currently have, at least for now ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 1. With a Single FOC you can field only three and the second FOC will require additional HQ and troops and your not taking 2 HQs and at least 4 troops at 2k ? specialy when cortez +henchman are so cheap . But ok . still 3 NDKs seem to be taking a lot of points and important slots while not realy helping with the problems armies face in 6th ed[necron and IG flyer builds]. We have a rulebook and we can play by its rule, if they don't like them they are not forced to play. I think they are discriminating you. so they will tell that from now on all games are 1999 or 1999+1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 1. With a Single FOC you can field only three and the second FOC will require additional HQ and troops and your not taking 2 HQs and at least 4 troops at 2k ? specialy when cortez +henchman are so cheap . But ok . still 3 NDKs seem to be taking a lot of points and important slots while not realy helping with the problems armies face in 6th ed[necron and IG flyer builds]. I'll make this more clear. I plan to play a match at the beginning of the next week and I won't have 6 DK for that day :tu: so they will tell that from now on all games are 1999 or 1999+1 Still an unfair behaviour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3131988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Sorry but this approach is unfair. You should tell them.It's the rulebook who allows you to field two FOC. If we agree with such approach we could easily say "I think focus fire or skyfire rules are unbalanced, thus I don't allow my opponent to use them". it's clearly unfair. We have a rulebook and we can play by its rule, if they don't like them they are not forced to play. I think they are discriminating you. I don't want to derail your thread, but facing 6 NDKs is unbalanced, and really not fun to face. The same as facing 6 TL Autocannons GK Dreads and 12 Razorbacks (with over 300 points to spare). Not fun to face. Want to try to kill your way through 12 Troop Slots of full squad Ork Boys in 5 turns? Or the same with 12 full IG platoons? Want to face 6 squads of Long Fangs? Dual FoC is silly. And utterly broken. It lets players load up *even more* on the best bits of thier codex and is in no way balanced. We have a rulebook and we can play by its rule, if they don't like them they are not forced to play. I think they are discriminating you. Exatly. :cuss Players are deciding that dual FoC is utterly stupid, and they would rather *not play* than face it. You can decide to go along with that, or not play yourself. No one is forced to play. And choosing not to play facing dual FoC is just exercising that perogative. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257219-dreadknights-spam-army/#findComment-3132081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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