Dreadknights "spam" army

[Cmdr Shepard]

No one is forced to play

And no one is forced to ignore a rule only because someone don't like it.

They should simply be honest and say: "I don't want to play with those rule because X, Y reason" not imposing their decision like if it was righteous and their opponent was "unfair".

 

Beside as I said everyone could decide to not play because they don't like a rule. They can do that but this is not a sportsmanlike attitude.

If you think carefully you will find a way to adapt to the 6 DK list and counter it. It's called strategic game for a reason :D

[Gentlemanloser]

What list has the ability to kill 360 boys over 5 turns?

 

Hell, who would want to play someone who has to move 360 boys each turn... :D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I already posted a 6 DK list but it seems no one noticed it. May I ask what's wrong with that list? I'm curious to know how to improve it, if it is needed.

 

Sorry man, I sorta just skimmed through the thread. I was responding more to the original post.

 

I don't want to derail your thread, but facing 6 NDKs is unbalanced, and really not fun to face.

 

The same as facing 6 TL Autocannons GK Dreads and 12 Razorbacks (with over 300 points to spare).

 

Not fun to face.

 

Want to try to kill your way through 12 Troop Slots of full squad Ork Boys in 5 turns? Or the same with 12 full IG platoons?

 

Want to face 6 squads of Long Fangs?

 

Dual FoC is silly. And utterly broken.

 

It lets players load up *even more* on the best bits of thier codex and is in no way balanced.

 

Dude, it's part of the game. You can't prevent an opponent going double Force Org, anymore than you can prevent them taking Allies or Flyers (both of which unbalance the game more IMO). You also fail to take into account that everything costs points. Fielding the six Heavy/Elite/whatever spam lists always involves sacrificing other things (typically Troops, and thus scoring ability).

 

Incidentially, I think double Force Org actually does more to balance things out. Tyranids are infamous for their Elite slot bottleneck. Knights themselves suffer from many excellent HQ options, but only two slots in a normal list. We also have a really well-known bottleneck in Heavy (due to PsyDreads being 100% broken and underpriced), which double Force Org alleviates. Other armies also have units made relevant by having the space to field them (points wasn't so much the issue). Double Force Org fixes the oppertunity costs in 40k. It does nothing about the absolute costs, and it shouldn't, because game size is one of the few things that prevents total insanity (y'know, multiple Paladinstars, Infantry Platoons for days...). Apoc is that insanity, double Force Org isn't.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

MK2 (Coteaz and 6 Dreadknights)

 

1st detachment

 

HQ

Ordo Xeno Inquisitor

Conversion Beamer

 

Troops

5 men Strike Squad

Psycannon and Hammer

 

8 men Strike Squad

Psycannon and Hammer

 

Heavy Suppport

 

3 Dreadknights

Heavy Incinerator and Personal Teleporter

 

2nd Detachment

 

HQ

Coteaz

 

Troops

 

1st Henchmen unit

3 Plasma Cannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero and 7 acolytes with bolter

 

2nd Henchmen unit

12 acolytes with bolter

 

Heavy support

 

3 Dreadknights

Heavy Incinerator.

 

Fortifications: Imperial Bastion with quad gun

I should have 20 spare points to use for upgrades or an additional PAGK

 

I like that list a lot man. The few things are change are largely cosmetic; dropping out the Fortifications for some Chimeras (for the Henchmen to bunker in). I'd also get rid of the Strike Knights (they're pretty awful as shooty scoring units, Henchmen are way more efficient), replace them with more shooty Henchmen. But yeah, if you ever get round to assembling it, give it a go.

[Darkmagi]

Well I got a game in tonight with my list I posted above and I have to say it preformed quite well, the 3 dreadknights were quite the annoyance to my opponent with one dreadknight tying up 2 squads of grey hunters, najal, and a wolfguard with frost axe for over 4 turns!, he slaughtered almost all of the basic hunters before finally falling to 4 rending wounds from a mark of the wolfen Every turn I issued challenge and every turn he declined so the frost axe never got to swing! Overall it was a win for me at 12vp-9vp, all 3 dreadknights eventually died but everyone killed at least 1 unit or caused my opponent to focus all his longfangs on it allowing the main paladin blob to really close the distance, the solodins worked really well one of them was the reason I won rather then tying. All in all I made a few mistakes that led to the death of 2 solodins but in the end I had a blast with the list! I definitely recommend trying something like it out

[the jeske]

Fielding the six Heavy/Elite/whatever spam lists always involves sacrificing other things

only for the bad dex/bad options . LF are very cheap spaming 6 of them in a 2k army doesnt make the list weak in anyway. you still can take a lot of GH with support HQs etc .

 

 

HQ

Ordo Xeno Inquisitor

Conversion Beamer

dies too fast . cant move . termi psy cannon inq better.

 

Troops

5 men Strike Squad

Psycannon and Hammer

 

8 men Strike Squad

Psycannon and Hammer

7 7 squads .

 

Heavy Suppport

 

3 Dreadknights

Heavy Incinerator and Personal Teleporter

 

2nd Detachment

 

HQ

Coteaz

 

Troops

 

1st Henchmen unit

3 Plasma Cannon Servitors, 2 Jokaero and 7 acolytes with bolter

 

2nd Henchmen unit

12 acolytes with bolter

that is kind of overcosted . you should run small squads to get enough points to buy teleports for your other 3 NDKS.

 

Heavy support

 

3 Dreadknights

Heavy Incinerator.

 

Fortifications: Imperial Bastion with quad gun

I should have 20 spare points to use for upgrades or an additional PAGK

bastion dies too fast at 2k pts[at 1500 also , but that at 2k it dies ultra fast] aegis line would be much better.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I like that list a lot man. The few things are change are largely cosmetic; dropping out the Fortifications for some Chimeras (for the Henchmen to bunker in). I'd also get rid of the Strike Knights (they're pretty awful as shooty scoring units, Henchmen are way more efficient), replace them with more shooty Henchmen. But yeah, if you ever get round to assembling it, give it a go.

 

I'm aware I need to do a review of this list. I just wrote it in few minutes after I posted the first one.

 

 

dies too fast . cant move . termi psy cannon inq better.

He doesn't have to move. He has to stay with Coteaz/Plasma Servitors (who cannot move either) in the backfield. Anyway I added him just because I had few poits available and I wanted to use something different. <_<

My others lists (one is posted here) field TDA Inquisitor with psycannon.

 

7 7 squads .

With 2 FOC it could be a better choice. Less chances of checks due to casualties.

 

that is kind of overcosted . you should run small squads to get enough points to buy teleports for your other 3 NDKS.

 

Heavy support

 

3 Dreadknights

Heavy Incinerator.

 

I planned to used the henchment overcosted unit (about 135 pts) to maximaze "I've been expecting you" rule agaisnt flanking units. There are several Space Wolves players at local store who use IC saga to outflank with nasty units.

 

bastion dies too fast at 2k pts[at 1500 also , but that at 2k it dies ultra fast] aegis line would be much better.

Honestly I don't like fortifications. I'd be more than happy to spend those point elsewhere but this list lack of A/A weapons (not that a single Quad Weapon will change the day).

 

Aegis line's Quad Gun can be targeted by enemy fire. It has just a T7 W2 and 3+ save,plus the 4++ cover save. it's not so difficult to destroy it too.

 

Beside we must consider fortifications are placed on the table before scenery. My opponent could place scenary blocking its line of sight (it is on the ground level after all).

Bastion will suffer melta and high S AP1 weapons a lot.

 

 

I believe the first one is still an effective and since I currently have only 3 DK it's one of the list I can actually field.

 

Any thought on it (the one described as Mark 1)?

[the jeske]

He doesn't have to move. He has to stay with Coteaz/Plasma Servitors (who cannot move either) in the backfield. Anyway I added him just because I had few poits available and I wanted to use something different.

yes and both are overcosted for what they do[i mean the unit and the hereticus inq] and die too fast there is no backfield when there are flyer builds in 6th ed and SW and BAs use drop pods again .

I understand different . I dont understand taking bad stuff. a+2sv Inq could take on more small weapon fire and would have a good sniping hvy weapon while the coversion beamer stops being useful unless your opponent hangs around at the 36"+range.

 

I planned to used the henchment overcosted unit (about 135 pts) to maximaze "I've been expecting you" rule agaisnt flanking units.

why not use GK . more shots , more resilient[the plasma squad maybe pined/dead before stuff starts poping in cortez range] .

 

Aegis line's Quad Gun can be targeted by enemy fire. It has just a T7 W2 and 3+ save,plus the 4++ cover save. it's not so difficult to destroy it too.

cheaper then a bastion . NDKs without teleporters kind of a dont work . 6 teleporting MC that put out 6 incinerator templates can hurt horde and slogger builds +wont get killed easy[unless someone is spaming plasma vets] . sending them in 3 man waves makes it easier for the opponent to single them out . I would go back to the 3 NDK version of the list imo , if the pick was between 3/3teleport ndks and 3 ndks and more GK.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Well I got a game in tonight with my list I posted above and I have to say it preformed quite well, the 3 dreadknights were quite the annoyance to my opponent with one dreadknight tying up 2 squads of grey hunters, najal, and a wolfguard with frost axe for over 4 turns!, he slaughtered almost all of the basic hunters before finally falling to 4 rending wounds from a mark of the wolfen Every turn I issued challenge and every turn he declined so the frost axe never got to swing! Overall it was a win for me at 12vp-9vp, all 3 dreadknights eventually died but everyone killed at least 1 unit or caused my opponent to focus all his longfangs on it allowing the main paladin blob to really close the distance, the solodins worked really well one of them was the reason I won rather then tying. All in all I made a few mistakes that led to the death of 2 solodins but in the end I had a blast with the list! I definitely recommend trying something like it out

 

Good news :). I'm glad to see they performed nicely against Space Wolves. I tend to not play Paladins against SW because everytime I do I lost a significant number of Paladins due to jaws of wolf (or whatever is its full name).

Last match I played I lost about 3/4 Paladins. I was very unlucky with dice rolls. I won the match 7-4 because he focused all of his army on my Paladins and Draigo allowing me to capture objectives. He also left my flyers undisturbed. They didn't a lot, a part from the allied Vendetta.

 

yes and both are overcosted for what they do[i mean the unit and the hereticus inq] and die too fast there is no backfield when there are flyer builds in 6th ed and SW and BAs use drop pods again .

I understand different . I dont understand taking bad stuff. a+2sv Inq could take on more small weapon fire and would have a good sniping hvy weapon while the coversion beamer stops being useful unless your opponent hangs around at the 36"+range.

 

The Inquisitor is Xeno not Hereticus :P

Orginal plan was to put them on Bastion's roof for a 3++ cover. Anyway as I said it was a list I wrote just to for the sake of curiosity. I still have to write a truly effective 6 DK list and since I have just three of them I have no hurry ;)

 

why not use GK . more shots , more resilient[the plasma squad maybe pined/dead before stuff starts poping in cortez range] .

Because of the original inclusion of the Bastion. They got a cover save equal to GK armour save and they provided more bodies to protect Coteaz.

 

cheaper then a bastion . NDKs without teleporters kind of a dont work . 6 teleporting MC that put out 6 incinerator templates can hurt horde and slogger builds +wont get killed easy[unless someone is spaming plasma vets] . sending them in 3 man waves makes it easier for the opponent to single them out . I would go back to the 3 NDK version of the list imo , if the pick was between 3/3teleport ndks and 3 ndks and more GK.

About Bastion/Aegis: honestly I doubt they can be game changing models, both of them. Interceptors guns can shoot at flyers who entered the table but they can find cover (not very difficult now that you just have to hide 25% of your vehicle and small flyers like stormtalons can stay out of sight. Yet, we don't have dedicated A/A weapons apart from fortifications and allies (stormravens are too expensive for this list)

 

I strongly agree about PT. I can think about two ways to field 6 DK with PT.

1. reduce the number of troop choices, using MSU or very small henchmen units. If I have to play the mission with 6 objective with different values I'd need more than few troop choices.

2. Using allies and I'll even get access to A/A weapons (I know we cannot discuss them here so I suppose I'll post a topic in the army lists section soon).

 

So do you think the first 3 DKs list is an effective one? (the one with interceptors as well)

[thade]

What list has the ability to kill 360 boys over 5 turns?

 

Hell, who would want to play someone who has to move 360 boys each turn... :)

It's not so bad, really, provided you allow them to move their boys in fist-fulls. <3

[Cmdr Shepard]

I wrote a "DK list" with two TDA units, let me know what do you thini Battle Brothers

 

HQ

Ordo Malleaus Inquisitor

TDA, Psycannon, Psyker (Divination, of course :tu: )

 

Troop

 

1x 10 Terminator

2 Psycannons

 

1x 10 Terminator

2 Psycannons, psybolts

 

1x 7 men Strike Squad

Psycannon and hammer

 

Heavy Supports

 

3x Dreadknight

Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter

 

Fortification:

Aeagis Defense Line with quad gun

 

I'll play a match at the beginning of next week so I'd like to know if this list would be better than the one with Strikers and Intercpetors I posted above.

I'll repost here in this reply B)

 

HQ

Ordo Malleaus Inquisitor

TDA, Psycannon, Psyker

 

Troops.

5X 5 men strike squad (I can reduce the number of squad and increase the number of each squad members)

Psycannon and Hammer

 

1x 7 men strike squad

Psycannon and Hammer

 

Fast Attack

 

10 men Interceptor Squad

2 Incinerators and Psybolts

 

Heavy Support

 

3x Dreadknight

Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter

 

Fortifications still to be deciced.

 

Do you think I should field 10 men squads and the combat squad them?

If I don't use a fortification and remove Interceptors I could field two Stormravens but are they a better choice? For A/A maybe but for the other purposes?

 

 

What list has the ability to kill 360 boys over 5 turns?

 

Hell, who would want to play someone who has to move 360 boys each turn... ;)

It's not so bad, really, provided you allow them to move their boys in fist-fulls. <3

 

Well at 2000pts you cannot play 360 orks boys, they are more than 2100 pts with no upgrade ;)

[The Holy Heretic]

I had quite a lot fun running two fully 'blinged' out DKs in 5th; teleporter, incinerator, sword, psycannon.

 

Of the various upgrades, I found the sword to be the least useful - except when having to hit vehicles on 6's.

 

The second gun I found to be extremely useful. The DKs become horribly expensive, when you add on the teleporter, and they could wind up getting bogged down by a horde of orksies. So having another big gun for crowd control was nice - it might seem expensive, but they payed off by giving the DK an extra edge, both being a weapon vs hordes and tanks.

 

I believe the DKs will have to reconsider their use now. When people are exchanging melta for plasma, and fists for axes. There will be more threats towards a DK out of combat due to the longer range of plasma over melta, while being in combat will be 'safer' because of the lower strength attacks. (That said, plasma 'only' have a 44% chance of wounding a DK, without taking BS into account).

 

- and there really is nothing like the last minute 30" shunt of a scoring dreadknight, to bring tears to your opponents eyes :)

[Cmdr Shepard]

I just played a match with my 3 DKs and they were more then amazing. I can barely found the words to describe their performance.

 

I played against a BA list with Astorath, Sanguinary priests, DC, DC dreads (DC and dreads on pods) and vanguard veterans. Perhaps it's not the most competitive list available for that codex but they deliver many attacks.

 

A single DK blocked nearly 500 pts of enemy units for three turns and he emerged victorious (The vanguard veterans, with no red thrist, left the table) and he suffered 2 wounds. I cannot even remember how many attacks they made.

He preferred to make a great number of standard attacks instead the one per model grenade attack.

Challange is your DK friend :). Since he refused every challanged issued by my DKs during the entire match I made sure his IC/character were of no use.

One of them finally killed Astorath.

 

I lost just two models (it was the best 40K I remember in my gaming hystory) and won 6-0 (it was the relic mission and I got first blood, slay the warlord and line breaker plus the relic).

 

I'm very impressed because the rest of my army did very little. The three DK made most of the work and I didn't expect them to act so well. It seems I underestimated them before :)

 

I think I'll post the list in the "army list" section. This list served me well and deserve at least some fame ;)

 

Thank You Battle Brothers for the advices you gave me.

 

The next project is to build a true 2000pts DK spam list with Coteaz and 6 DKs...

[Darkmagi]

I'm not sure if this would be considered a spam list but at just under 1k you can get

 

Hq: 100

Coteaz

 

troops:124

2x(3x warriors acolyte with psybolt razorback)

 

Heavy Support: 770

2x Dread Knight w/ Heavy Incen, PT, and Great Sword

1x Dread Knight w/ Heavy Incen, PT, and Daemon Hammer

 

This should scare the Bejebus outta most opponents at this point level.

[Stormshadow]

What list has the ability to kill 360 boys over 5 turns?

 

Hell, who would want to play someone who has to move 360 boys each turn... :D

 

120 grey knights? But I guess it would be unfair to outnumber the orcs like that ;).

 

If you continue to “bring a knife to a gunfight” the game will always be unbalanced.

[Gentlemanloser]

At 2.5K, you could run;

 

HQ: Inq (25)

HQ: Inq (25)

 

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

Troop: 10 x Strike (200)

 

Total: 2,450

 

And still be able to afford 5 Psycannons, somewhere.

 

I'm still not sold on 120 Storm Bolters being able to kill 360 Boys. ;)

 

Let's see;

 

240 Shots, 160 Hits, 80 Wounds. Lets assume no cover saves at all. That would take on average 4.5 rounds to kill every Ork.

 

But this doesn't take into account any casualties 360 Orks would inflict in return. Or Range/Cover Saves.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I'm not sure if this would be considered a spam list but at just under 1k you can get

 

Hq: 100

Coteaz

 

troops:124

2x(3x warriors acolyte with psybolt razorback)

 

Heavy Support: 770

2x Dread Knight w/ Heavy Incen, PT, and Great Sword

1x Dread Knight w/ Heavy Incen, PT, and Daemon Hammer

 

This should scare the Bejebus outta most opponents at this point level.

 

At 1000 pts I suppose it will make even fearless units to hide under the gaming table :D

At 2000 pts my three DKs held the line against nearly the entire enemy army. Imagine at 1000 pts :cuss

 

EDIT:

And still be able to afford 5 Psycannons, somewhere.

 

I'm still not sold on 120 Storm Bolters being able to kill 360 Boys. ;)

 

Let's see;

 

240 Shots, 160 Hits, 80 Wounds. Lets assume no cover saves at all. That would take on average 4.5 rounds to kill every Ork.

 

But this doesn't take into account any casualties 360 Orks would inflict in return. Or Range/Cover Saves.

 

Add two psycannons to each squad (2 psycannons= 1 PAGK, thus about one less unit) and keep 24" distance. Your opponent will reach you but if he wants to it fast he must run thus not shooting.

Being able to kill an entire army in 4.5 rounds is nice result. You rarely have to wipe the enemy out in order to win.

 

There is also an alternative. Purifiers spam. Less models but 4 psycannons per unit and Crowe (the price for the purifiers ;) )

You fire at them until they are closer. If they charge you they get 16 psycannon shots and 12 stormbolter shots per unit, then you cast your flame and you should kill nearly half of them, then you strike first and ignore their armor.

 

However we are going a little off topic here ;)

[RedemptionNL]

At 2.5K, you could run;

...

I'm still not sold on 120 Storm Bolters being able to kill 360 Boys. ;)

 

Nah you're doing it wrong: :P

Crowe 150

Inq 25

 

9x 10 man Purifier Squad with 4 Incinerators

1x 7 man Purifier Squad with 2 Incinerators

~2.5k points, 99 models.

 

If the 60 stormbolters and 38 incinerators don't do the job, combat squad everything and try to get into the mother of all multi-assaults, linking as many enemy units into one big assault. The 20 Cleaning Flames will kill each Boy 10 times over before you ever have to strike a blow with your swords. :)

 

But anyway, I don't see the big deal about the double FOC. With a few exceptions, spamming one unit/slot will cost you, usually in the terms of scoring units.

These types of one-trick pony lists usually fall into the rock-paper-scissors principle; they win big against armies that can't deal with them, and lose big against list they're not equipped to deal with themselves. Thankfully in my gaming group there's a healthy mix of different armies, so these lists are sometimes taken for fun, but never last very long in favour of regular balanced lists.

 

I like the double FOC as we're starting to see units hit the board that would otherwise almost always be benched in favour of some 'required' unit in the same slot, like the overpopulated Elite and Heavy Support slots for many armies like 'Nids or Eldar.

[Stormshadow]

I'm still not sold on 120 Storm Bolters being able to kill 360 Boys. ;)

 

It’s simple math really. There are only three orcs for every Grey knight. The orcs are badly outnumbered. :P

 

Sorry for going of topic, what was it again? Ah yes, building a list with three Dread Knights. :)

 

HQ:

Draigo

Mordrak

4x Ghosts

Inquisitor: Terminator armor, Psycannon.

 

Troops:

Paladin

Paladin

 

Heavy support:

DK: Incinerator, Sword, Teleporter

DK: Incinerator, Sword, Teleporter

DK: Incinerator, Sword, Teleporter

Dread: 2x Auto cannon, Psy-bolts

Dread: 2x Auto cannon, Psy-bolts

Dread: 1x Auto cannon, Psy-bolts

 

Draigo and Mordrak make as many Dreads and DK scoring as possible/need. HQ’s and DK’s gets in the opponents face turn one and the Dreads give them support. Paladins are held in reserve until needed.

[Gentlemanloser]

It’s simple math really.

 

*whistles*

 

Let's see;

 

240 Shots, 160 Hits, 80 Wounds. Lets assume no cover saves at all. That would take on average 4.5 rounds to kill every Ork.

 

But this doesn't take into account any casualties 360 Orks would inflict in return. Or Range/Cover Saves.

 

Now, Incinerators. Burninate them the death!!!

 

6 x Purgation Squads with 4 Incinerators! WooT WooT!

 

If only Divination made them Twin Linked. :P