C:SM - Strongest Single Long Range Unit

[UltraTacSgt]

PRIMARY MISSION:

The primary duty of this unit is to be long range anti armor/MC's, AV13 and weaker. I consider AV14 a whole different animal which should be addressed with meltas. Also I am focusing mainly on turns 1 and 2 of shooting, and at a range of 24"-48". Basically I want this unit to be a hitman unit that is able to reliably destroy or cripple any single big gun, piece of armor, MC, solo IC, or other important unit or transport in one or two turns.

The rest of my army is set up to be able to handle whatever comes its way with a smattering of MM's, HB's, plasma, sniper scouts, etc. so I am not worried about them. Part of my tactical thinking is breaking the battle down into engagement ranges (long 30ish"+, med 12'-36", close 12"-) and I have the Med/Close covered so this unit needs to win the Long range fight without fail.

 

>---TL : DR = This unit needs to shoot 30" or further and there is no such thing as overkill.---<

 

List the unit, wargear, and points cost that you think fits the bill.

[Koremu]

Typhoon Land Speeder. Long Range, *and* the speed to keep it that way.

[LoreDraconis]

Turn 1-2 long range vehicle sniper would be the Master of the forge with a Conversion beamer. He's done some amazing things for me. Practically infinite range, if you can get him in a good spot (or buy him a bastion) he can annoy the living crap out of the opponent. If you're doing gunline, the ruin reinforcement comes in handy too. Of course, if you already have your HQ it may not be the best option.

 

As far as MC are concerned, I'd go with good ol sniper scouts tbh. They are quite a bit better in the new edition and have a lot of versatility. 9 snipers and a ML or hellfire HB is pretty scary to a MC.

 

Devs are also good, obviously, and 4x lascannons will tear into anything, but at a massive points cost.

 

There really isnt a "king of them all" unit, as it should be. There is good and expensive, or decent and versatile, or cheap and so so.

[Schultzhoffen]

A Tri-Las Predator.

 

Although I prefer x2 Auto Cannon/Las Cannon Preds.

[DarkGuard]

Typhoon Land Speeder. Long Range, *and* the speed to keep it that way.

 

Can also get side armour shots easily, as most AV13 vehicles have a weaker side armour.

 

Combi-preds are cheap and pack 2 lascannons, while ML Devs are cheapish and have rate of fire, and many like to add a lascannon to the unit to help with AV13.

[Brother Captain Josef]

Typhoon Land Speeder. Long Range, *and* the speed to keep it that way.

 

Can also get side armour shots easily, as most AV13 vehicles have a weaker side armour.

 

Combi-preds are cheap and pack 2 lascannons, while ML Devs are cheapish and have rate of fire, and many like to add a lascannon to the unit to help with AV13.

 

Pretty much this. Typhoon speeders are an excellent investment and continue to be so in 6ED. Combi preds are a little less manoeuvrable but do have the advantage of AP2 shots. Both these units tend to fare better if you have armour saturation in your list as they will be taking less return shots. If you have an infantry heavy list then a Thunderfire Cannon and a unit of devastators (1 x las 3 x M/Launchers) hiding in something rugged might serve you better.

[Leonaides]

Stormraven with lascannons, heavy bolters, bloodstrike missiles and a bad attitude. Guaranteed to give someone a bad day.

[Gideon999]

I have to agree with the typhoon. I have 3 and although I dont usually field them all I have never, ever regretted bringing them to the table. And with the new fast skimmer rules (12" and fire both guns, including krak!) and the 5+ jink save combined with better squadron rules they just got even better.

 

If I HAD to say another unit beside this one, it would likely be tac terminators with cyclones. They arent quite as good at ranges over 24" and are more infantry spec'd than not but they kick out some very good firepower and are hard to kill.

[ShinyRhino]

The bump to the AP2 rules is nice for this edition, so I'd be a fan of lascannons for that armor value.

If you want cheap and easy, take a Twin-Las Razorback. The twin-linking with Marine BS is great. In a pinch you can even train it on a flyer.

Midrange would be the tri-Las Predator. It can now move and fire all its guns (though all but one as Snap Shots), so you can react to flanking attempts on its side armor.

If you want expensive and durable, go for the standard Land Raider. You can actually point it at two different targets in a given turn due to Power of the Machine Spirit.

[Phalanx Warder]

For me I have to back up the thunderfire cannon suggestion, 60" range and 3 different rounds to choose from(one has egnores cover special rule, and tremmor which forces dangerous terrain tests even on skimmers. On average one TFC is doing 6 to 10 wounds a turn upto 60" plus the bolster special rule gives +1 to cover saves in ruins add scout snipers with camo cloaks and you got some long range goodness)

[Emperors Immortals]

Stormraven with lascannons, heavy bolters, bloodstrike missiles and a bad attitude. Guaranteed to give someone a bad day.

 

 

Dont tease the 'nilla dexters ;p

 

 

For my Sons of Medusa, i run 2 typhoons and/or a dev squad with a RB combat squadded to either let the heavies sit back and the tank move or protect the heavies.,

[ShinyRhino]

Remember folks, the OP asked for long-range anti-MC/tank options. While the TFC is indeed an awesome tool, it's not a reliable AV/MC killer by any means.

[VoteForPedro]

I'll echo the others here: Typhoon Speeders and Combi Preds are the way to go for long range versatile but effective firepower.

 

It's hard to find anything cheap enough points wise beyond them to contemplate. Lascannon devs are ludicrously expensive, as are Tri Las Preds and Land Raiders. I've been known to take a Dev squad with 4x Missile Launchers but 2 Typoon Speeders is pretty similar in points cost and crucially more manoeuvrable.

 

Thinking outside the box you can always look to podded Sternguard or allies (fistbump in some Tau)

[henrythesecond]

Turn 1-2 long range vehicle sniper would be the Master of the forge with a Conversion beamer. He's done some amazing things for me. Practically infinite range, if you can get him in a good spot (or buy him a bastion) he can annoy the living crap out of the opponent...

 

Doesn't the Conversion Beamer extend out in a straight line and just keep going through units? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

 

If it IS the one I'm thinking of, wouldn't putting it on a Bastion reduce it's effectiveness, as after hitting the first model, the firing angle would send it down through the table?

 

Jay.

[pyroknight]

Doesn't the Conversion Beamer extend out in a straight line and just keep going through units? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

 

If it IS the one I'm thinking of, wouldn't putting it on a Bastion reduce it's effectiveness, as after hitting the first model, the firing angle would send it down through the table?

 

You are confused.

 

The conversion beamer is a blast, whose strength is stronger the further away its target is.

[Ming]

I saw this here...

 

http://nike40k.blogspot.com/2012/08/40k-me...devastator.html

 

For the points, a codex SM player's best choice is likely the predator...echoing what some of you have also determined.

[henrythesecond]

Doesn't the Conversion Beamer extend out in a straight line and just keep going through units? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

 

If it IS the one I'm thinking of, wouldn't putting it on a Bastion reduce it's effectiveness, as after hitting the first model, the firing angle would send it down through the table?

 

You are confused.

 

The conversion beamer is a blast, whose strength is stronger the further away its target is.

 

Ahhh, my apologies. In 40k, IS there something similar to what I described?

[Seahawk]

Predator Annihilator with lascannons, hands down.

 

Three AP2 lascannons, which will cut through any armor in the game and give +1 on the damage chart against vehicles (missiles do neither, and don't work so well on front armor), one of which is twin-linked, all in a tidy 165 point package. Cheap, durable, and devastating. I often use 2-3, and it's awesome.

 

If you want more versatility and speed with which to attack infantry at a heavy cost in durability, take a Typhoon or nine. I don't count them as AT vehicles in any sense though; Strength 8 and no bonuses just doesn't cut it.

 

Comparative points costs for AT units:

165: Predator A

180: 5 Devastators with 3 lascannons

260: Land Raider w/multimelta

[Naminé]

In my experience the triple las pred has always performed well, and will cripple anything it points at... just make sure it has a good line of sight and protect its flanks.

It's also worth noting that the humble tactical squad can take a lascannon for only 10 points, which I believe is the cheapest in the codex.

 

Master of the Forge with conversion beamer can be great, But the shot can scatter off, and he needs extreme range to be effective. This makes it really hard to pozition him and get good LoS on the enemy. Overall I would recommend the Predator option for this purpose

[DarkGuard]

The problem with the triple las pred is its points cost. Yes it will destroy anything it looks at, but is it worth its points cos. Or rather, is it worth the increase in points from a combi-pred? Does it perform much better than at its role of anti-vehicles? I'm not so sure.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

The problem with the triple las pred is its points cost. Yes it will destroy anything it looks at, but is it worth its points cos. Or rather, is it worth the increase in points from a combi-pred? Does it perform much better than at its role of anti-vehicles? I'm not so sure.

Here's some mathhammer I banged out on the two. The first stat in a line is the average number of Hull Points it will remove (from both Glancing and Penetrating hits), the second the average number of Penetrating hits.

 

 

1.11HP/0.8888pen for 2 Lascannons against AV11

0.88HP/0.66pen for 2 LCs against AV12

0.66HP/0.44pen for 2 LCs against AV13

0.44HP/0.22pen for 2 LCs against AV14

 

0.74HP/0.59pen for 1 Twin-Linked Lascannon against AV11

0.59HP/0.44pen for 1 TLLC against AV12

0.44HP/0.29pen for 1 TLLC against AV13

0.29HP/0.14pen for 1 TLLC against AV14

 

0.66HP/0.44pen for 1 Autocannon against AV11

0.44HP/0.22pen for 1 AC against AV12

0.22HP/0.00pen for 1 AC against AV13

0.00HP/0.00pen for 1 AC against AV13

 

Totals for the Predators-

All-LC Predator:

1.85HP/1.48pen against AV11

1.48HP/1.11pen against AV12

1.11HP/0.74pen against AV13

0.74HP/0.37pen against AV14

 

Combi-Pred:

1.77HP/1.33pen against AV11

1.33HP/1.11pen against AV12

1.11HP/0.44pen against AV13

0.44HP/0.22pen against AV13

 

And if you want a mathhammer idea of efficiency, here the combi-Pred adjusted for their difference in points.

Adjusted Combi-Pred:

2.44HP/1.83pen against AV11

1.83HP/1.52pen against AV12

1.52HP/0.61pen against AV13

0.61HP/0.30pen against AV14

 

Summary:

The all-LC Predator is better in a pure damage-per-shooting phase sense against all Armor Values. The Combi-Pred is very close in pure damage output at low armor values, but quickly falls of a cliff against heavier armor. In the per-points view, the Combi-Pred actually shows quite a bit better performance against light vehicle. However, even the cheaper points of the Combi-Pred cannot keep its efficiency above that of the all-LC Pred against AV13 and AV14.

 

Hope that helps.

[Koremu]

By that Math, a pair of sponsonless AC Preds is better value against low AV than a combi pred (and harder to destroy)

[VoteForPedro]

There a few other harder to math factors that need to be considered for the combi Pred.

 

Line of sight is a particular issue for Predators given how they hate moving. You can have 3 combi Preds for less than the price of 2 tri Las Preds enabling you two spread out your gunline.

 

In addition it's more threats to saturate the board with and give your opponent hard choices. Beyond that there is the simple fact that it's easier to kill 3 Predators than 2!

 

So, while tri Las Preds are undoubtably 'stronger' (the threads title), I would argue that combi Preds (and even the humble dakka Preds) are better choices when used in conjuction with the rest of your army (which isn't the purpose of the thread I realise, apologies for the tangent!)

[darnarth lysander]

have you tried a master of the forge with a conversion beamer and 5 devastators with lascannons?

[DarkGuard]

By that Math, a pair of sponsonless AC Preds is better value against low AV than a combi pred (and harder to destroy)

 

Of course, it's not all about the maths. Combi-preds will stand up better to weapon destroyed results than the autocannon Pred, which can be taken out the game by one of those results. The combi-pred though requires three weapon destroyed results to silence it, which will kill it anyway due to hull point loss.