Lone wolves in 6th edition

[Ulricspath]

I know from experience that a lone wolf was hard to make worth its points in 5th edition but I've seen more of them in 6th edition armylists, is it something I'm missing here? I understand that a LW is good in TDA because of the less hard hitting power weapons now, but isn't they as fragile as before? Maybe not in CC but a well adjusted LC-shoot (or for that matter plasma guns which has become alot more common now) could bring the lonely wolf down.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Wulfebane]

They're Character mutilators in challenges.

[dswanick]

I know from experience that a lone wolf was hard to make worth its points in 5th edition but I've seen more of them in 6th edition armylists, is it something I'm missing here? I understand that a LW is good in TDA because of the less hard hitting power weapons now, but isn't they as fragile as before? Maybe not in CC but a well adjusted LC-shoot (or for that matter plasma guns which has become alot more common now) could bring the lonely wolf down.

 

Any thoughts on this?

My first thought is - what game have you been playing? Lone Wolves have always been a good unit, and they've only gotten better in 6th.

[Ulricspath]

Dswanick: For vehicle hunting (with risk of getting blown to pieces) maybe, I mean earlier they died of very easily by either to big of a unit attacking him (or assaulting it) or killed of by characters with powerswords and high I. When I used them, they have often been around 80points wasted which can be confirmed by watching countless of armylists to comparing with my own. Maybe could he hold up a rushing unit towards you but for 80points? meh. That's my experience atleast.

 

That's why my question is how they are in 6th edition and if they are worth taking or save it for other units. :lol:

[Chalx the grey]

I have to go with dswanick here... either you have been VERY unlucky with Lone Wolves, or you have not been playing 40k!!

 

Of course they need TDA and stormshield, but after that they are extremely annoying for you opponents. Mine sports a Thuderhammer, and already in 5th he had a large tally of death behind him, including several characters, countless Crisis suits teams, MCs and many tanks, inc. Leman Russes... you name it, with its special rules he can hurt anything in the game... the bigger the better. Hell even Land Raiders are not safe if you go for the chainfist!!

 

Now in 6th with challenges, the boost to TDA and FnP working against AP2 Lone Wolves got even better. Think of it as a small, cheap, angry, disposable unit of TH SS terminators. AND very characterful if you ask me, seeking a glorious death.

 

Of course they will not kill a lot (or nothing) in some games, but the amount of plasma needed to bring him down is not being directed to your much more important troops so it is not wasted. Even as a tarpit unit, for 85 points he is more than worth it... and now he can even hold an entire unit of Grey Knights for a while. Last game he assaulted a 9 strong unit of Raveners and held two assault phases before he went down, that is 72 I 5 WS 5 rending attacks. Do your math on what that does to regular troopers.

 

Just kit him properly and run him to thick of battle! ^_^

[halkon]

With TDA and a storm shield they are great. Yes they might not kill much but the the volume of fire it takes to kill one neans that the rest of your army is left alone. I run with 2 of them and they get shot alot but thats what there there for. If they make it into CC then all the better. They are one of the best units we have. Yes they can be 80+ points each but when they have 1000+ points shooting at then and there still standing it's a grest feeling cos the rest of your army is still comming. Just with we could put them into drop pods.

[Chucku]

I agree with the TDA & storm shield assessment. They are very resilient and can take down characters or tar pit powerful assault units.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Nice feedback guys. I have them in my 6th ed. Can't wait to use them!

[dswanick]

TDA is one option. Another is PA/2X Plasma Pistols/Mark of the Wulfen/Fen.Wolves. Jump him in the Long Fang's Razorback (you did buy a Razorback, right) and cart him to a flank. People seem to be inordinately concerned with a model with 3+/5+FNP/EW/W2/2X S7 AP2 shots and a d6+2 Rending Charge...

[Russ Brother 92]

I normally run 1 or 2 lone wolves; 1 with PA and an Axe either Power or Frost (normally I go with the Frost Axe) and melta bombs - he just runs about taking shots and getting in the way of enemy units though in 6th he's died relatively easily due to a fair amount of plasma (and a coupla Demolisher cannons from vindi's), the other I run is TDA w/ Twin Claws and melta bombs - the melta's only for the rare forward rhino or other tanks, he really does run through enemy units and characters - my last game he only got 3 challenges, 1 Khorne Lord w/ Daemon Weapon who got 12 attacks total on his charge at I5 and S5, now mostly due to terrible rolling by my opponent he failed epicly and only wounded me once, the other two were both Berserker Sergeants, one PF/PP and the other PW/BP - he slaughtered both before they managed to wound him - I shall be keeping him close, and at a meager 65pts he can take on most enemy units including termies, though if I was against them I'd probs switch to TH/SS or FA/SS.

[Ulricspath]

It seems like I've just had alot of bad luck (or just played them wrong) with them, I guess Ill give them another try and see how it goes. TDA + SS and TH or TDA + claws, what is the best combo?

[dswanick]

It seems like I've just had alot of bad luck (or just played them wrong) with them, I guess Ill give them another try and see how it goes. TDA + SS and TH or TDA + claws, what is the best combo?

Depends on your use for him :

-Anti-MC/Vehicle - hard to go wrong with a Thunderhammer or Chainfist.

-Anti-Low I Characters/Duels - I can see the usefulness of WC to strike at I. If you decide to go with WCs, remember that you can now use Melta Bombs against MCs in CC (S8, Unwieldy).

[truesonofruss]

I play mostly 1500 pt games at my LGS and have begun running three since the change to 6th Ed I use two with TDA, CF,SS and the other one is TDA, x2 WC. The two CF guys I move around the sides and push in for vehicles(one guy plays a completely mech IG army which my CF guys tend to eat alive, and the WC guy character hunts and tar pits foot sloggers. Just the other day he held a group of 30 hormagaunts through the entire 7 rounds we played and killed almost all of them in the process(huge waste of him but funny in my mind. Either way Lone wolves are definitely a staple in my armies and will remain so until they get nerfed or something.

[the jeske]

huge waste of him but funny in my mind

30 guants do not cost 80pts. So it should not classed as a waste I think.

 

 

SS means he has to be hit by more then 6 plasma to be dead [opponent point of view] , thats 3 squads or a dedicted anti termi squad. . even with las he takes as much shoting as a predator to die . smaller fire is also 3+squads to kill him in a single turn . In the end it doesnt matter what he kills or when he dies , he either draws away a lot of fire or kills stuff because GW decide to give him access to good weapons.

[Khine]

i just played with a terminator lone wolf with th/ss against grey knights.

 

Got in combat with a unit of paladins with draigo. Held them up for 4 game turns and the game ended with Draigo and the lone wolf at one wound each.

[dswanick]

i just played with a terminator lone wolf with th/ss against grey knights.

 

Got in combat with a unit of paladins with draigo. Held them up for 4 game turns and the game ended with Draigo and the lone wolf at one wound each.

I'm sorry to hear that... <_<

your Lone Wolf failed to die a Glorious Death.

[Khine]

i just played with a terminator lone wolf with th/ss against grey knights.

 

Got in combat with a unit of paladins with draigo. Held them up for 4 game turns and the game ended with Draigo and the lone wolf at one wound each.

I'm sorry to hear that... <_<

your Lone Wolf failed to die a Glorious Death.

 

thats ok :sweat: we had a single duel after the game ended between the two. Killed Draigo and restored his squads honour and so was welcomed into the Great Wolf's company =]

[fjgarces]

And you can attach up to 2 fen wolves and use LOS! to make some dangerous saves.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Why Lone Wolves got better in 6th:

 

Feel No Pain works against AP1 and AP2 attacks now. (Also, depending on your group's interpretation of how Eternal Warrior works with Feel No Pain, he can get his FNP save against all attacks!)

Charge distance can be larger now. (Give that "hail mary" charge a go!)

[Chodjinn]

I had two TDA Lone Wolves, chainfist/SS, thunderhammer/SS, but not actually got round to using them as yet.

 

I'm off to play some 500pt 6th tester games this weekend, and in one of my 'fun' lists I'm going to be running 3x lone wolves, each in PA with bolt pistol, plasma pistol, with a wolf each for LoS! The whole point of a lone wolf is to die, true he has to actually get into battle, hence the TDA/SS for bigger point games. But I'm seriously hoping the 3+/5+FNP and gunslinger is enough to distract my opponent while my maxed GH squad moves in for the kill!!

[Chucku]

Why Lone Wolves got better in 6th:

 

Feel No Pain works against AP1 and AP2 attacks now. (Also, depending on your group's interpretation of how Eternal Warrior works with Feel No Pain, he can get his FNP save against all attacks!)

Charge distance can be larger now. (Give that "hail mary" charge a go!)

 

Even better for the Lone Wolf who gets to use his FNP against just about any wound you can imagine as his Eternal Warrior USR makes him immune to Instant Death.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Even better for the Lone Wolf who gets to use his FNP against just about any wound you can imagine as his Eternal Warrior USR makes him immune to Instant Death.

Yeah, that's the debate. Does EW making the model immune to the "affects" of Instant Death mean that it gets a FNP save against S8+ attacks? The rules are unclear.

 

I'm going with the conservative interpretation of "no."

[dswanick]

I'm going to say absolutely no -

 

"Instant Death - If a model suffers an Unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value double its Toughness value or greater, it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty.", BRB, Pg.16

 

"Instant Death - Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an Attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death, regardless of the victim's Toughness.", BRB, Pg.38

 

"Eternal Warrior - A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death.", BRB, Pg.35

 

"Feel No Pain - Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against Unsaved Wounds that inflict Instant Death.", BRB, Pg.35

 

A model with Feel No Pain can not make a roll against an unsaved wound that inflicts Instant Death. A model with Eternal Warrior is immune to the effects of Instant Death. The effects of Instant Death are the loss of all Wounds and removal as a Casualty. A model with Feel No Pain and Eternal Warrior will not lose all Wounds and be removed as a Casualty by an Instant Death Attack, but it will not be allowed a Feel No Pain roll because the Attack still inflicts Instant Death even though the model does not suffer the effects.

[MalachiOfRuss]

A model with Feel No Pain can not make a roll against an unsaved wound that inflicts Instant Death. A model with Eternal Warrior is immune to the effects of Instant Death. The effects of Instant Death are the loss of all Wounds and removal as a Casualty. A model with Feel No Pain and Eternal Warrior will not lose all Wounds and be removed as a Casualty by an Instant Death Attack, but it will not be allowed a Feel No Pain roll because the Attack still inflicts Instant Death even though the model does not suffer the effects.

Good enough for me! That means there's value in making Smash Attacks or activating a Force Weapon against a model with EW and FNP.

[Runesch]

I'm going to say absolutely no -

 

"Instant Death - If a model suffers an Unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value double its Toughness value or greater, it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty.", BRB, Pg.16

 

"Instant Death - Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an Attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death, regardless of the victim's Toughness.", BRB, Pg.38

 

"Eternal Warrior - A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death.", BRB, Pg.35

 

"Feel No Pain - Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against Unsaved Wounds that inflict Instant Death.", BRB, Pg.35

 

A model with Feel No Pain can not make a roll against an unsaved wound that inflicts Instant Death. A model with Eternal Warrior is immune to the effects of Instant Death. The effects of Instant Death are the loss of all Wounds and removal as a Casualty. A model with Feel No Pain and Eternal Warrior will not lose all Wounds and be removed as a Casualty by an Instant Death Attack, but it will not be allowed a Feel No Pain roll because the Attack still inflicts Instant Death even though the model does not suffer the effects.

 

EW makes the model immune to the effects of ID not the the effect of ID and one of the effects is that FnP is invalid, but with EW you are immune to all the effects not just the effect that makes you loose all your Ws, RAW = you can take FnP with EW whenever you like, RAI is what you make it up to be.

 

 

Rune