Lone wolves in 6th edition

[dswanick]

I'm going to say absolutely no -

 

"Instant Death - If a model suffers an Unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value double its Toughness value or greater, it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty.", BRB, Pg.16

 

"Instant Death - Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an Attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death, regardless of the victim's Toughness.", BRB, Pg.38

 

"Eternal Warrior - A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death.", BRB, Pg.35

 

"Feel No Pain - Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against Unsaved Wounds that inflict Instant Death.", BRB, Pg.35

 

A model with Feel No Pain can not make a roll against an unsaved wound that inflicts Instant Death. A model with Eternal Warrior is immune to the effects of Instant Death. The effects of Instant Death are the loss of all Wounds and removal as a Casualty. A model with Feel No Pain and Eternal Warrior will not lose all Wounds and be removed as a Casualty by an Instant Death Attack, but it will not be allowed a Feel No Pain roll because the Attack still inflicts Instant Death even though the model does not suffer the effects.

 

EW makes the model immune to the effects of ID not the the effect of ID and one of the effects is that FnP is invalid, but with EW you are immune to all the effects not just the effect that makes you loose all your Ws, RAW = you can take FnP with EW whenever you like, RAI is what you make it up to be.

 

 

Rune

No, one effect of ID is not negating Feel No Pain. ID has nothing to say about FNP. EW negates the loss of all Wounds and removal as a Casualty by ID Wounds.

Feel No Pain tells you that it can not be taken against "Wounds that cause Instant Death". It is negated by the Wound being an Instant Death Wound not if the model is affected by that Instant Death Wound.

The only way EW could allow FNP roll against ID wounds would be if ID said :

"If a model suffers an Unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value double its Toughness value or greater, it is reduced to 0 Wounds, is removed as a casualty, and this may not be prevented (by Feel No Pain)" - then one of the effects of ID would be preventing Feel No Pain and EW would then negate that as an effect, allowing FNP. But that's not the way it is worded.

Feel No Pain keys onto the status of the Wound, not the status of the model.

[Runesch]

FnP cant be taken against ID wounds but with EW no wounds can inflict ID, so with EW you can take your FnP everytime you fail an armor save.

 

Rune

 

P.S.

 

You can argue all you want but RAW still says that with EW you cant take ID wounds : "Instant Death - Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an Attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death, regardless of the victim's Toughness.", BRB, Pg.38

 

Its not the weapon/attack that gives ID its the unsaved wounds, and since we have a model with EW he ignores the part where the unsaved wound is ID.

 

RAI all you want that FnP cant be taken by models with EW, thats not for me to decide, that you and your gaming grp.

[dswanick]

FnP cant be taken against ID wounds but with EW no wounds can inflict ID, so with EW you can take your FnP everytime you fail an armor save.

 

Rune

 

P.S.

 

You can argue all you want but RAW still says that with EW you cant take ID wounds : "Instant Death - Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an Attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death, regardless of the victim's Toughness.", BRB, Pg.38

 

Its not the weapon/attack that gives ID its the unsaved wounds, and since we have a model with EW he ignores the part where the unsaved wound is ID.

 

RAI all you want that FnP cant be taken by models with EW, thats not for me to decide, that you and your gaming grp.

Unfortunately, I think you're the one R.A.I.ing (Rule As I want it). But I'll just agree that we disagree.

[Elazar The Glorified]

The FNP debate just feels like a hangover from 5th. The rule that stopped you from getting the FNP save has been removed from the game.

 

So my poor Lone Wolf in Power Armour is subjected to a Krak missile in the face. I go to take his FNP save as he can't take an armour save and was rather foolishly standing a good 10' from the nearest bit of cover. My opponent points out that the Krak missile is S8, double the Lone Wolf's toughness and so will inflict Instant Death so points to the following rule under FNP that's relevant "Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against unsaved Wounds that inflict Instant Death" there's no further mention of this other than that. Because this is an effect of Instant Death (by the dictionary definition of the word effect -"something that is produced by an agency or cause; result; consequence") it is ignored by my Lone Wolf because of the Eternal Warrior rule "A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death."

 

If that other line hadn't existed in 5th edition then nobody would be looking for it now. So if you approach 6th without that 5th edition hangover there isn't any amibiguity to it.

 

Unless you want to argue that because its not mentioned under FNP it doesn't affect FNP and in that case Fearless minis wouldn't be immune to Fear...

[Canis Majoris]

From the way I see it...

 

I dont see the reason why anyone should be arguing...

 

Without quoting a rule this is what they mean by it.

 

If you get hit with a wound that if you did not save it you'd die outright from instant death then you die.

 

However if you are completly imune to instant death ( because your ard ! ) then why would it still ignore your fnp roll but not cause instant death? there is nothing in the book that says it only ignores some aspects.

 

Think about it the fluff if you like behind why you did'nt get a fnp roll against instant death wounds is because fnp is the models ability to shrug of a wound that would usually kill a normal man or beast etc, but if the wound from a lascannon incinerated that man...no amount of feel no pain would help lol.

 

But if your so tough eg. eternal warrior, that you cannot be instant killed even if you take a hit from a lascannon, then you should be able to shrug off the wound with fnp just as if you'd been wounded by a boltgun.