Deschenus Maximus Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Simple: New special rule for all Captains - The Art of Command. "The Art of Command: If a Captain in your army is your Warlord, he may select his Warlord Trait instead of rolling for it." I think this would actually make them pretty useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabal_of_Baal Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I agree, sort of. It would make sense for marines, centuries-old gods of war that they are, to be able to do something like this. But I really haven't squared off with the whole warlord trait thing as a whole, yet. It's been mentioned numerous times before that it's kind of hit and miss; in one game, one side can get one that is hugely influential, while the other one can get one that plays no part at all (re-rolling reserves when no one is using them, for example) and the whole thing can be unbalanced. I'd almost be tempted to, short of ignoring the system as I know a number of groups are doing, make different warlord traits available for purchase. Then again, maybe being able to buy such an army-wide advantage might make certain builds too powerful? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Simple: New special rule for all Captains - The Art of Command. "The Art of Command: If a Captain in your army is your Warlord, he may select his Warlord Trait instead of rolling for it." I think this would actually make them pretty useful. Where abouts is this new special rule mentioned? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Way too big of an advantage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Where abouts is this new special rule mentioned? I made it up while I was looking at the traits table. Way too big of an advantage. I don't think so. Even the better Traits aren't that powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabal_of_Baal Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I don't think so. Even the better Traits aren't that powerful. I disagree: in two separate games, dust of a thousand worlds has allowed my DC and assault squads to get close enough to successfully get early charges against Tau and IG gunlines where without the traits, they would've been subject to an extra turn of close range shooting. This is something that I would have gladly paid many points for. The fact that I didn't felt, frankly, unfair. Especially since the IG guy got Master of Ambush (which he obviously declined to use; guardsmen can't see in the dark) and the tau fellow got Master of Offence ("furious charging crisis suits when in the enemy's deployment zone....woot?") :) Sure, some of them are a bit lame. But others, when the right army get's them, are just killer. Thus, I think, too much of the balance aspect of the game is left up to chance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 What he is suggesting is paying for the trait, since you only get it when you take a captain. I think it is legit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Where abouts is this new special rule mentioned? I made it up while I was looking at the traits table. What a disappointment. I find Warlord Traits and the new Pyschic Powers ruined by having to roll for them. Not once have I got a useful Warlord Trait and BA Psychic powers are too good to trade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 A very good idea, Deschenus! May I add something? Allow them to have artificer armour at additional costs of 15 points. +15 points is a fair price, and finally makes Captains pretty awesome in CC against incoming powerweapon attacks, not back as in 5th, where every damn IG sergeant could ignore your armour with a powered-up toothpick. I'd be ready to pay 180 for that, or more if it's needed to be. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I have a captain with a jump pack, thunderhammer and stormshield. I just need a reason to take him. Every other HQ choice is still better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 A very good idea, Deschenus! May I add something? Allow them to have artificer armour at additional costs of 15 points. +15 points is a fair price, and finally makes Captains pretty awesome in CC against incoming powerweapon attacks, not back as in 5th, where every damn IG sergeant could ignore your armour with a powered-up toothpick. I'd be ready to pay 180 for that, or more if it's needed to be. I woudn't. Not when I can take Tycho for 175 and he's already got a snazzy suit of armour and a weapon that makes Terminators cry. One suggestion I saw for Warlord Traits was that you roll a dice for it as normal but look at that result on each of the 3 tables and pick your preferred one. Makes it slightly more likely to get a trait that is useful for your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 How to make a captain not suck? Storm shield thunder hammer JP is desired. Use him to tank plasma wounds all day long. Better yet, Ally in a SM one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Give him a Bike. Problem solved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I like picking might be too much, but rolling two dice and picking the one you want, or rolling a dice and then picking the table you want sound viable. Just picking might be a bit extreme, my drop pods of doom army is downright scary if i have fc in your dz, always Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Allow them to have artificer armour at additional costs of 15 points. Amen Brother! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It does annoy me that the artist / philosopher / warrior / kings dont have relic blades and artificer armour.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I woudn't. Not when I can take Tycho for 175 and he's already got a snazzy suit of armour and a weapon that makes Terminators cry. One suggestion I saw for Warlord Traits was that you roll a dice for it as normal but look at that result on each of the 3 tables and pick your preferred one. Makes it slightly more likely to get a trait that is useful for your army. Ah, let me explain. 155 is my current Captain loadout, that's JP, Powerweapon and Infernus Pistol. For +25 points, you'd get in this example a 2+ armour save and the rule suggested by Deschenus. Maybe 185 is more suitable, since that's a powerhouse. While Tycho is damn awesome with his Dead Man's hand and board-wide LD10, he neither has a JP or an Infernus pistol. He's got a combi-melta, that's inferior to the IP in my eyes. Sure, special ammunition is nice and all...but from one bolter(and I'm not going to consider Sternguard for a couple of reasons) it's far from effective. Give me that IP on Tycho and I'm ready to go, that's what I'm saying. A 2+ armour save would be great for our Captains, certainly not overpowered and fluffologically sense-making. That's probably the only thing I'm ;) ed about when it comes to the rules-section. Damn you, Matt Ward! Your idea regarding the 'new' Art of Command rule sounds good, though! Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 I disagree: in two separate games, dust of a thousand worlds has allowed my DC and assault squads to get close enough to successfully get early charges against Tau and IG gunlines where without the traits, they would've been subject to an extra turn of close range shooting. This is something that I would have gladly paid many points for. The fact that I didn't felt, frankly, unfair. Especially since the IG guy got Master of Ambush (which he obviously declined to use; guardsmen can't see in the dark) and the tau fellow got Master of Offence ("furious charging crisis suits when in the enemy's deployment zone....woot?") :lol: Sure, some of them are a bit lame. But others, when the right army get's them, are just killer. Thus, I think, too much of the balance aspect of the game is left up to chance. A Captain being able to pick would be powerful, but really, what is the problem with that? At 100 pts base, he is very expensive for what he does, especially when we currently have much more cost-effective options. Letting him pick his trait is good, yes, but not too good. It would just make worth his points. A very good idea, Deschenus! May I add something? Allow them to have artificer armour at additional costs of 15 points. +15 points is a fair price, and finally makes Captains pretty awesome in CC against incoming powerweapon attacks, not back as in 5th, where every damn IG sergeant could ignore your armour with a powered-up toothpick. Absolutely. I would also like acces to Glaive Encarmines, if only for fluff reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentL Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I disagree: in two separate games, dust of a thousand worlds has allowed my DC and assault squads to get close enough to successfully get early charges against Tau and IG gunlines where without the traits, they would've been subject to an extra turn of close range shooting. This is something that I would have gladly paid many points for. The fact that I didn't felt, frankly, unfair. Especially since the IG guy got Master of Ambush (which he obviously declined to use; guardsmen can't see in the dark) and the tau fellow got Master of Offence ("furious charging crisis suits when in the enemy's deployment zone....woot?") :lol: Sure, some of them are a bit lame. But others, when the right army get's them, are just killer. Thus, I think, too much of the balance aspect of the game is left up to chance. A Captain being able to pick would be powerful, but really, what is the problem with that? At 100 pts base, he is very expensive for what he does, especially when we currently have much more cost-effective options. Letting him pick his trait is good, yes, but not too good. It would just make worth his points. A very good idea, Deschenus! May I add something? Allow them to have artificer armour at additional costs of 15 points. +15 points is a fair price, and finally makes Captains pretty awesome in CC against incoming powerweapon attacks, not back as in 5th, where every damn IG sergeant could ignore your armour with a powered-up toothpick. Absolutely. I would also like acces to Glaive Encarmines, if only for fluff reasons. I was really annoyed I couldn't make a decent Captain ... I was also really annoyed I couldn't make a generic BA chapter master... I mean to my knowledge BA has several Successor chaptres. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257241-how-to-make-captains-not-suck-in-5-seconds/#findComment-3130793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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