Myxx Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 so how about a Hereticus inquisitor with a psyocculum in a shooty squad? Maybe a trio of plas.cannon servitors, a few Jokaero maybe? That BS 10 would be pretty nice, what with the abundance of psykers to be had since 6th has dropped.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Well, that Inquisitor is very focused in the type of target it is engaging, and you need to know that you are facing the particular type of opponent the Hereticus Inq. is most effective against to get the most use out of it. That takes tailoring, which I think the majority of us do not do either based on principle or practicality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3130464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The Psyocculum is kinda amusing, and it will be slightly more relevant now that psykers are much more prevelant/neccessary. The problem arises in that the Xenos and Malleus Inquisitors just have more options. Xenos Inquisitor can take a conversion beamer and happily sit with the plasma cannon servitors in a Chimera in the backfield. The Xenos Inquisitor can also be a poor mans Tech-Marine, bringing the grenade belt and hiding with 'LoS!' rolls. The Malleus Inquisitor can be kitted out with TDA, a hammer and a psycannon for joining Knight units. Eh, give him a go, if you face plenty of psykers in your local meta, the psyocculum will matter. If not, look to the other two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3130468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 They get null rods too, right? I may be misremembering, but I thought that O:H Inq had access to null rods in this edition. If it's fluffy for your force, take it; if you're bored and want to try it, take it; if they're appropriate to a scenario or a friend asks you to put their psyker-spam tournament list through a ruthless ringer, take it. I could probably think up more reasons it was cool/kosher to take them. :lol: They may seem a bit pigeon-holed (they are) but your HQ doesn't always need to be a generalist or tooled up for melee or even shooting. Your HQ is the required model in charge and you can be flexible with where/how you deploy them. Your list has a lot of other stuff in it to handle challengers, so if you come up against a psyker-heavy list, the Inquisitor gets to ride around with your heavy escort (Paladins, GKT, Purifiers, whatever) while if you are fighting against, say, Necrons, sticking her with your at-home firebase is probably fine. Don't forget that Inquisitors don't run as expensive as your standard Grand Master, especially if you're frugal with upgrades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3130794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Null Rods, Psyocculums, and Condemnor Boltguns are the "unique" Hereticus wargear :) Personally, the INP model is still a Hereticus Inquisitor, as I still think the Condemnor Boltgun I have on her looks totally pimp :P It does feel like she's a little gimped for wargear options though, especially as she normally ended up with a hand-to-hand retinue. Loosing things like Hammer of Witches, Thy Will Be Done and Chiurgeons really hurt this edition/new book. I may have to rethink how I'm tooling her Retinue depending on how things continue to go :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3130948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I han the OH inq at Adepticon this last year with 3 plasma cannon servitors and a psyocculum, it was ok, I only saw psykers in my last game vs GK (Game 1 vs Wolves psykers in Rhinos, Game 2 vs Necrons, no Psykers, Game 3 vs Dark Eldar, no Psykers, Gaem for vs GK - ALL PSYKERS!).... I don't believe this to be a worthwhile build even now with more psykers, for one reason... Divination. take an inquisitor, any inquisitor, and give them divination, now those plasma cannons can reroll to hit, against all targets... better than BS 10 vs Psykers! Null rod is neat, but i've never been in the situation building a list where i've said 'you know what I need, a null rod...' i've said that about ulumethi plasma syphon, but never used it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3131051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
painkiller Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't believe this to be a worthwhile build even now with more psykers, for one reason... Divination. take an inquisitor, any inquisitor, and give them divination, now those plasma cannons can reroll to hit, against all targets... As far as I remember, the GK FAQ only gives the Librarian the option to exchange his codex powers for the general psychic powers such as Divination in the BRB. Alas, I do not have the BRB with me to work. Must do that more often ;) Can anyone verify my extreme and wild statement? (regarding the rules that is) Brgds, Painkiller Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3131864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretheus Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 in the cards it says only the librarian or the lord of formosa himself can exchange psychic powers! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3131883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Uh... Inquisitors and Librarians can exchange all their powers for rolls on the new psychic table equal to their ML (librarian keeps hammerhand). Let's read the FAQ before commenting on this issue? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3131891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The FAQ clarifies the issue rather nicely. The list options that can exchange powers are: GK Librarian, Inquisitors (Malleus, Hereticus, or Xenos), and Coteaz (being the only psker special character Inquisitor). That's it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3131957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
painkiller Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 My bad. Thanks for clarifying. Brgds, Painkiller Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3132453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No worries :P It's far too confusing for their own good. One could hope that a rollout would always go perfectly smooth with no hiccups, but meh... then reality steps in and kicks us all in the tail. To be honest the rules changeover went relatively smoothly. The only major difference for me is a couple of Justicar's I have to rearm (halfway done with that) and I get to build more Marine Sergeant options for my Exorcist squads now. I've got 2 Tactical Sergeants with powerfist and one Dev Sergeant with powerfist. Now I get to put power weapons on the rest of the squads and actually have some variety (with the end goal, of course, of having a whole company sometime decades from now ;) )! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3133028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I thought this was a fitting place to voice my thoughts and see what you all were wondering. So, null rods! This piece of gear is pretty much unique to Hereticus Inquisitors, so let's look at what we're getting really. Page 57 of the Codex specifies that a null rod is a power weapon, then it goes on to list additional effects. This puts it squarely in the category of "unusual power weapon" as far as I can tell, which makes it AP3 dispite the fact that it's described as a rod, which one would think is a power staff/rod/maul. This is also incredibly annoying because that would have been incredibly useful and fun. "I hit you with my anti-psyker staff of I'm strength 5! Eat that eldar witch!" Anyway... so it's AP3, destroys psykers with a single wound (note, no tests are required, all that's required is one wound inflicted on a psyker). It also means the bearer and their squad cannot be affected by psychic powers in any way. Note, as far as I can tell this does NOT stop the bearer from using psychic powers, like psychic communion or some of the divination powers. This does bring up an interesting idea. I'd been considering using INP with psychic communion and deep striking/reserving most all the Grey Knight units. An Inquisitor is one unit, their warband and it's transport is a second unit. With a double Inquisitor HQ and 2 warbands one could reserve up to 4 or 5 units and bring them in by deep strike, utilizing psychic communion (which a Hereticus Inquisitor could use even while bearing a Null Rod since it doesn't affect the Inquisitor and their unit). As far as modelling a Null Rod, although the fluff states it's a rod, I'm inclined to make an obsidian sword and call it a "null rod" since that way it at least WYSIWYG the correct AP of the weapon. That's the biggest annoyance for me, although it also keeps our halberds at I6. Guess you can't win em all ;) A Null Sword sounds perfectly awesome in any event. Now an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a Null Rod would make a mess of Warlocks, Farseers, several Tyrannid creatures, and some Daemons/Chaos foes. The question is, is it enough of an bonus to be worth the investment? You can still buff shooting units if you went with Divination, however you could no longer buff the unit the Inquisitor is attached to. Thoughts from the masses? Is this a Crazy Like a Fox idea, or just a crazy one? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3137760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Actually, Nic, I'd have to agree. I think you're well within the rules doing just that, haha. It says it's a "Power Weapon" and it's not otherwise specified...and we're allowed to make power weapons swords, mauls, and axes now. Interesting. I like it. It opens up some interesting fluff possibilities...like, your counts-as Null Rod can be some appropriated Necron weapon that sucks up psychic powers...or you could get super crazy (which I am prone to do) and claim your Inquisitor with Null Rod counts as a freaky Necron/Pariah, or even a Sensei, completely immune to psychic powers and otherwise armed WYSIWYG. Frankly, the Inquisitor is going to easily stick out...it can counts-as anything within reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3137766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The problem is although we can make it look like anything we want, it counts as an "unusual power weapon" and is therefore by definition AP3 attacks at strength. We could model it differently but even if we make it look like a thunderhammer it's technically AP3 attacks at strength. Historically the INP figure was merely an Ordo Hereticus Lord (lady) with a psychic hood, a couple of powers (usually Hammer of Witches and His Will Be Done) and a force weapon. While I can make her an echo of her former glory by leaving the force weapon, I begin to wonder if I might actually get more accomplished with the model by swapping her force weapon for a null rod. I may or may not be leaving her psyker status (without a psychic hood she only helps the unit she's with, and the null rod kind of fixes that problem) simply for psychic communion or the chance of a divination buff or debuff of other units. The bigger problem I suppose, is say you go with a Hereticus Inquisitor with Null Rod. You can't hammerhand your own unit so you lose a little close combat effectiveness. You can no longer Divination yourself, so you're not quite as good on the shooty end of things. What sorts of warbands compliment this playstyle now? Do we go with a fun, fluffy unit of whatever looks neat? Mystics still work, Daemonhosts would be kind of ironic but daemonic powers don't count a s a psychic power, as would psykers since they're offensive nukers. Not being able to buff your own warband does hurt a little, but is it still possible to build an effective warband including a null rod in it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3137769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I wouldn't bother with a Null Rod. Not when you've got a 5+ 'Deny' to any power use that the Null Rod would effect. Better saves versus stuff you get a save at, at the cost of giving the unit rerolls. Or giving the unit reroll and keeping a smaller save? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3137880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 People also argue over a warding staff being better than a normal nemesis force sword plus an additional 35 points of wargear on a Librarian :P If we compare, it is actually 5 points cheaper to give an Inquisitor a Null Rod than make them a Psyker. Is it worth it? Null Rod: immune to psychic powers entirely, instant death to any psyker who fails a wound, power weapon Psyker Level 1: 5+ chance to be immune to powers, 1 psychic power, force weapon (chance of instant death to anything), costs 5 extra points Makes it a little less clear when viewed that way :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3137891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 People also argue over a warding staff being better than a normal nemesis force sword plus an additional 35 points of wargear on a Librarian Well yeah, because everyone will be gunning for him in close-combat, and he'll be challenged EVERY time. In that scenario, a 2+ invul is hilarious and jams up all but the most fighty heroes whilst the Terminator slaughter whatever squad charged in with the character. Also, what other wargear is there to take on a Libby? 3-4 powers you already should have bought (and thus irrelevant for cost considerations, as no one takes bare-bones Librarians), maybe some servo-skulls...srsly, a stave is a very worthwhile investment. If we compare, it is actually 5 points cheaper to give an Inquisitor a Null Rod than make them a Psyker. Is it worth it? Null Rod: immune to psychic powers entirely, instant death to any psyker who fails a wound, power weapon Psyker Level 1: 5+ chance to be immune to powers, 1 psychic power, force weapon (chance of instant death to anything), costs 5 extra points Really, is it only 5pt margin? I thought null rods were cheaper...well in that case, why would you ever take one? Psychic upgrade includes a force weapon (aka, any type you like, so force axe. sword etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3137930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 So you can ID *anyone*, and not just other Psykers. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3138112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Nah thats what I meant man, why would you ever take the null rod when the psychic upgrade is better :wacko: wasn't implying null rod was good, I just thought being worse, it would be a lot cheaper Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3138361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Oh, I totally agree! I wasn't answering your question there! (I reread my post and it's a little more confusing that I thought it was! lol!) The Psyker upgrade gives you; Rerolls 5+ Deny ID anyone on a Ld test Null Rod gives you; Auto Deny Auto ID Psykers hit Can't use any Psychic Powers Is the auto Deny/ID really worth losing out on the rerolls from Divination? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3138379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Actually it's only cannot use psychic powers that affect your own unit. You can still buff everyone else or nuke things :) (well, assuming you want to also buy the psyker levelup) It's really looking at how much versatility and utility you get from the one single psychic power. Rerolls for a single squad's shooting isn't necessarily game breaking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3138521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's really looking at how much versatility and utility you get from the one single psychic power. Rerolls for a single squad's shooting isn't necessarily game breaking. In addition, if the squad seems game-breaking to your opponent, they'll fill it with pain and bolts until it goes away. I guess if you want them to be a bolt sink, that's one way to do it. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3138526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 One other thing to consider is it's still a warp charge to activate your Force Weapon, meaning if you're doing that you're risking Perils and it's your power use for the turn. A Null Rod does not test, has no perils, and would still allow you to use a power that turn should you also be a psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257242-hereticus-worthwhile/#findComment-3138594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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