Exploding a Night Scythe

[ShinyRhino]

So, if you destroy a Night Scythe, the passengers go into reserve. But, do they still take the S10 hits before doing so? The unit is embarked upon the Night Scythe, and the Flyer rules tell you what to do when you explode a Zooming transport. But what is the exact wording of the go-into-reserve rule? Does it allow the unit to escape those hits?

 

What is the RAW on the interactionbetween the Night Scythe and the Flyer Transport rules?

[Feste]

The rules for the Night Scythe say:

 

If the the Night Scythe is destroyed, the embarked unit is not allowed to disembark, but instead enters reserve (when they arrive, they cannot Deep Strike).

The FAQ doesn't seem to add anything further.

 

The rulebook for Flyers says

 

If the Flyer is also a transport any models withing suffer a Strength 10 hit with no armour saves allowed. Survivors are placed anywhere within 3" of the blast markers final position and in unit coherency.

So no mention of disembarkation, which RAW could be seen to make the Invasion beams a little pointless for avoiding damage.

 

As all the other Wrecked and Explodes! results refer to disembarking as normal, I'd probably assume that the RAI is that they don't suffer the damage.

[*Furyou Miko]

Invasion Beams just allow you to Disembark while Zooming. That's literally all they do (without them you'd be stuck since you can't disembark from a zooming flyer, and Night Scythes lack hover mode).

[Feste]

You're right Furyou, I saw the FAQ addition and assumed that it was part of the same thing. Thanks for catching that.

 

However I think that the rule I quoted is still valid, it's part of the Codex entry under Transport Capacity.

[ShinyRhino]

Thanks guys.

It's basically a question of timing. The Flyer applies the S10 hits from the explosion before directing the passengers to disembark. Since they don't pop into reserves until they are forced to disembark, they take the hits and then any survivors go into reserves.

 

Now to really monkey wrench the gears...do models killed in this way get Reanimation rolls if there is a surviving model?

[Feste]

To contradict myself, Explodes! results don't mention disembarking. You take the hits and are placed where the vehicle was or where the Flyer's blast marker ended up. Sorry about that.

 

As the Night Scythe rules only mention being prevented from disembarking, a strict RAW might be that nothing changes. However as that essentially short-circuits that entire rule for the Night Scythe, my interpretation is that taking the hits and being placed are the 'disembarking' procedures that the Night Scythe's rule refer to.

[ShinyRhino]

To contradict myself, Explodes! results don't mention disembarking. You take the hits and are placed where the vehicle was or where the Flyer's blast marker ended up. Sorry about that.

 

As the Night Scythe rules only mention being prevented from disembarking, a strict RAW might be that nothing changes. However as that essentially short-circuits that entire rule for the Night Scythe, my interpretation is that taking the hits and being placed are the 'disembarking' procedures that the Night Scythe's rule refer to.

 

The problem wthere is that the taking of hits is a separate procedure and mechanic from placement of survivors. You can't bundle them together as one item, as the rulebook tells you to take the hits, then place survivors within 3" of the scattered Large Blast marker.

[Feste]

I agree. But my point is that the Explodes rules don't mention disembarking. You remove the transport, take hits, then place the models down. Disembarking not needed.

 

Which is fine, but as the Night Scythe transport rules specifically mention disembarking from an Exploded transport, I'm proposing that those rules should be interpreted to mean that the normal sequence of the Explodes rule are ignored.

 

The reason for that is that otherwise, following RAW, you should place them in the crater because the Night Scythe rules only tell you to ignore disembarkation, not placing due to exploded transports.

[ShinyRhino]

The placement of survivors after the explosion IS disembarking, as defined by the rules for Wrecked and Exploded transports though.

[Feste]

Disembarkation is a specific, defined group of rules. Wrecked vehicles mention disembarking and follow the normal rules for it. The rules Explodes results don't mention disembarking anywhere.

 

Conceptually sure, they're the same. But, for example, if a unit disembarks from a Wrecked vehicle they'll have to take Difficult and Dangerous terrain tests as normal. If a vehicle is Exploded though, they're simply placed down and don't move, therefore taking no tests.

[ShinyRhino]

So, by that thinking, would the Invasion Beams not function at all for an exploded Night Scythe, as the IB rule only tells you what to do instead of disembarkation, which the explodes result is not?

Are we debating to the same end, but by different routes? ;)

[Feste]

I'm not sure. I'm saying that if a Night Scythe is destroyed, then the contents simply walks on unharmed on the next turn, I wouldn't be surprised to see 'The unit enters Ongoing Reserve' in the FAQ if this pops up.

 

This is because this is a recently written rule which is has just been made somewhat nonsensical by the change in edition. So I'm trying to interpret what the rules mean, rather than what they say. Because what they say is meaningless, or nearly so.

 

I find the rules a bit unclear here, so hopefully a clarification will appear in due course.

[Morollan]

So I'm trying to interpret what the rules mean, rather than what they say. Because what they say is meaningless, or nearly so.

 

The idea here is that the troops are not physically inside the Night Scythe and the invasion beams are basically teleporting them onto the battlefield from some distant place. That's certainly what the fluff suggests in the Necron Codex. In fact, it doesn't even suggest it - it flat out states it! And that's actually pretty damn cool. I imagine it something like The Borg in Star Trek where they are beamed on board Federation ships.

 

On that basis I would fully expect a FAQ to clarify that troops on board an exploded Night Scythe do not take damage and are merely placed back into reserve.

[Feste]

Yeah, that's what I think is intended too. We just need clarification really.

[pyroknight]

“Unlike the armoured carriers employed by other races, the Night Scythe does not have a transport compartment as such. Instead, it deploys troops by means of a captive wormhole whose far end is anchored on a distant Tomb World…

If the Night Scythe is destroyed, its payload squad is simply isolated from the battle until an alternate means of deployment can be established…this is preferable to them being destroyed outright as they can join the campaign’s later stages.”

 

I can't speak to the RAW, but its seems the authors intent is clear. For RAI, the passengers of a Night Scythe are not supposed to take any damage.