Rommel44 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hey mates, while gathering my Steel Legion army and play testing it at my store, a buddy of mine at the table next to us ended up playing against a guy traveling from Colorado and when he saw that his opponent pulled out the GK codex, we all assumed that he would do what every cheesy GK player will do in this edition , the Drago list w/Paladins. However, we where surprised when he pulled out (from memory), Inquisitor Coteaz, 2x Stormraven gunships, 1x Dreadknight, and at least 40x to 50x plus Stormtrooper models he was running as Warrior Acolyte's w/Carapace Armor and Hellguns, and 2x to 3x rhinos. Seeing my buddies face, he went on to explain that the only reason he is running this list is because he wanted to run a "Stormtrooper IG Army", however the only way he could achieve that is by running the GK list and using Coteaz to make it happen with Warrior Acolytes as he makes all Henchmen troop choices. Now granted, they dont have BS4 and that they dont get any of the special rules that normal IG Stormtroopers get, however they are 3 points cheaper, can have 12x guys per squad, can take 3x Special Weapons instead of 2x, and they have access to Rhinos and Razorbacks or can be mounted in Stormraven Gunships on top of getting benefits from some GK special rules. Although I didnt get to see much of there game as I was busy kicking some Orcs teeth in ( Demolishers vs Big Orc Hordes equals very satisfying results ), however apparently not only did his list do very well, he actually managed to pull off a solid win against my friends Space Wolves. Now granted this is just an example but to be honest, I do like the idea and fluff of this "Stormtrooper List" using Coteaz and the GK Codex, and just wanted to hear your guys thoughts and opinions on it and if it would be worth something to play with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 For a theme list, its not all that bad. I would advise against loading up on hellguns though, especially as Henchmen lack BS4. Storm bolters or even just regular bolters work fine. The thing is, IG bring a quite similar list but have superior Flyers to drop it into enemy lines. So if you want a Stormtrooper list, it's probably better to take 'Grenadiers' Doctrine on IG Veterans. They have three special weapons, plus they can take a heavy weapon if need be, and between the Chimer and the Vendetta you have excellent transportation options. On top of that, they have BS4 built in. IG Air Cav is a formidable army, and the fact that Vendettas are both cheaper and come in squadrons makes fitting them in easier than Ravens. With Coteaz and his Henchmen warbands, its better to take stuff you can't replicate with IG Veterans. For example, Jokaero bring formidable firepower (again, at BS3 though), and with two of them you'll usually roll something useful (and you have the chance to roll for two upgrades). Plasma cannon servitors bring insanely cheap anti-everything firepower (AP2 is now relevant against vehicles, and lower cover means more kills on the enemy), and they especially like Coteaz helping them re-roll 'Gets Hot' and scatter rolls using his 'Prescience' power. There is also the other thing IG Stormtrooper lists can't do, which is close-combat. DCA are cheap and deadly, whilst Crusaders let you absorb damage from Overwatch etc on the way in. They do require a Raven though, which sorta offsets their cheapness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3132513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel44 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Fair point mate, however Hot-Shot Lasguns are one of the main reasons that make Stormtroopers elite in my opinion, as it means I would have a ton of AP3 weaponry on the board at one time, and plus they have some advantages over standard IG stormtroopers. Its more of a fluff-themed based list, however I feel that it has the potential to be an effective list, as I will be supporting it with Stormravens and Razorbacks, as well as Inquisitor Coteaz with a squad of Servitors for the extra firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3132972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I adore the idea, especially with Imperial Armour volume 2 giving access to Inquisitorial Valkyries for a couple of the squads in addition to Chimeras, maybe an Inquisitorial Land Raider for Coteaz (say, Land Raider, 3 Chimeras, 2 Valkyries...), hordes of Kasrkin and Storm Troopers in red and black storming over the board... The only problem is it requires stinkin Coteaz! *Shakes fist* I abhore having my own personalized HQs and characters that have their own careers, background fluff, backstories... and now to play a real Inquisitorial force I have to either limit myself to two warbands worth of troops in a couple vehicles bringing down hordes of Grey Knight support (which is not a bad list and what I'm currently going with) or use this stupid cookie cutter special character that I have no reason to like simply to get the ability to have lots of henchmen warbands. Grrr... I mean, he's a fantastic character ruleswise, I just hate having my Inquisitors dictated to me simply so I can use my 40 Storm Trooper and Kasrkin models at once outside of Apocalypse (and that's not even touching the other various assorted henchmen options I have). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3133021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I totally sympathize: I think requiring a SC to unlock an army is so stupid. Not every full warband of Chaos Berzerkers requires Karn. Not every Salamanders detachment gets the esteemed presence of Vulkan. I have a hard time believing that Coteaz is the only Inquisitor with a massive host of henchmen. we all assumed that he would do what every cheesy GK player will do in this edition , the Drago list w/Paladins. Given that Draigo and Friends has suffered a substantial nerf due to wound allocation, I'm not sure why they're still bearing the title "cheesy". Now instead of absolutely needing to wound every model in the unit once before killing one (a monumental task) now they can only displace wounds on a 4+. And they still cost like 55 to 75 per model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3133047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmothershaw Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I am so jealous of that guy! I love the karskin models except they are expensive! Imo space marines are nice but there more superhuman than human... Human elite soldiers with better equipment sounds sick to me. Oh yeah and stick them in some inquisitorial vendettas from the imperial armour book and some various other inquisitorial goodies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3133055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel44 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Fair point mate, however Hot-Shot Lasguns are one of the main reasons that make Stormtroopers elite in my opinion, as it means I would have a ton of AP3 weaponry on the board at one time, and plus they have some advantages over standard IG stormtroopers. Its more of a fluff-themed based list, however I feel that it has the potential to be an effective list, as I will be supporting it with Stormravens and Razorbacks, as well as Inquisitor Coteaz with a squad of Servitors for the extra firepower. I agree with you mate, its just that I know for a fact a lot of people still complain about that particular GK list and its the most common I have seen GK players run so just making a point :P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3133117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Its a fantastic idea! Collecting IG too I know of storm troopers but seldom use them, they're a bit too over priced for me. I agree here with some of the posts about Coteaz. As far as HQ choices go he is about as solid as you get but he tends not to add enough flavour to match ups for me, I prefer a standard vanilla inquisitor with its own toys and custom fluff but alas Coteaz's ability to make henchmen troops is obviously crucial to the list. I however probably wouldn't be able to resist mixing in crusaders for defence and assassins for close combat effectiveness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3133192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Fair point mate, however Hot-Shot Lasguns are one of the main reasons that make Stormtroopers elite in my opinion, as it means I would have a ton of AP3 weaponry on the board at one time, and plus they have some advantages over standard IG stormtroopers. Its more of a fluff-themed based list, however I feel that it has the potential to be an effective list, as I will be supporting it with Stormravens and Razorbacks, as well as Inquisitor Coteaz with a squad of Servitors for the extra firepower. Except they're still lasguns, which means S3. If you do the math, storm bolters or rapid-firing bolters generate more wounds and more dead Marines. Wound 1/3rd of the time just plain sucks, its only against Eldar and only in rapid-fire range (and don't forget, 'Gets Hot' will be rearing its ugly head with all the shots you're generating) that they are better than bolter weaponry. The sheer underwhelming nature of hot-shot lasguns is why you never see Stormtroopers in IG lists. Veterans are just flat-out better in every measurable way. Henchmen have better weapon options, you don't have to gimp your core infantry that hard just for theme. I adore the idea, especially with Imperial Armour volume 2 giving access to Inquisitorial Valkyries for a couple of the squads in addition to Chimeras, maybe an Inquisitorial Land Raider for Coteaz (say, Land Raider, 3 Chimeras, 2 Valkyries...), hordes of Kasrkin and Storm Troopers in red and black storming over the board... Hull Points make Landraiders even more worthless this edition, as they can be glanced to death. That's not even mentioning what the melta hangover from 5th does to them. I'd honestly prefer Inquisitional Vendettas, Valks just offer more anti-infantry. Stormtrooper armies are great in theory, but at a certain point the points you pay gets to Marine level, and then you realise how bad T3 4+ save dudes fight in practise. Henchmen can get around such problems by bringing dirt-cheap bolter or storm bolter, and even with carapace they're still pretty damn cheap. Although, BS3 is still an issue. That's why I recommend IG Veterans in carapace, BS4 is just too good to pass up on special weapons like plasma or melta. The only problem is it requires stinkin Coteaz! *Shakes fist* I abhore having my own personalized HQs and characters that have their own careers, background fluff, backstories... and now to play a real Inquisitorial force I have to either limit myself to two warbands worth of troops in a couple vehicles bringing down hordes of Grey Knight support (which is not a bad list and what I'm currently going with) or use this stupid cookie cutter special character that I have no reason to like simply to get the ability to have lots of henchmen warbands. Grrr... Count as :P . GW even explicitly spell this out in their army books. 'The SC's can represent your own characters if you want, we just give them set rules and wargear to force your army down a certain path'. For example, you could count him as a Skitarii Captain, or a different Inquisitor, or even a high-level Primaris battle-psyker of the Guard. Also, his rules are AWESOME. A nemesis hammer, an eagle that pecks your eyes out at storm bolter range, artificer armour, Mastery 2, Divination powers, anti-Reserve shooting if they come near him....even ignoring the obvious bonus of Henchmen Troops, he's a great little character in his own right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3134348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Which is probably what I'm going to do. I just actually was considering making the mentor of my own cadre of Inquisitors wielding a daemon weapon unknown to the others as opposed to a daemonhammer, and now it's what the heck do I do to counts-as that stupid eagle... *sigh* Thankfully that's more of a long term project :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3134848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Shotgun? It's random hits, so some kind of scatter weapon, maybe flechette rifle etc might work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3136255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I often wonder if Crazy Inq is required to unlock henchmen as troops only so they could sell more Crazy Inq models. Several of the henchmen squads would be just fine as standard Troop choices and would add diversity. Were the decision mine I'd house rule that in...but locals here are not keen on it, instead leaving their beautiful Ordo Hereticus armies on the shelf. Here's a radical idea. Some sorceror cults counts-as PAGK as troops and Inq with a retinue, attached as allies to IG. Or they could give us a Rogue Trader army book. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3136437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I normally try to match the profile to something similar and see if there's a way I can justify it in that sense. I'm considering archaeo-tech stormbolter. It's a 24" assault weapon, and similar to say Dorn's Arrow on Kantor in an average number of shots. The big downside? I'd have to give up the daemonblade idea B) Or just use him in Apocalypse where no one cares how many Henchmen Warbands I throw down, woot ;) So many modeling projects, so little time and budget... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3136812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 So many modeling projects, so little time and budget... Ah, time and budget. My old foes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3136814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Which is probably what I'm going to do. I just actually was considering making the mentor of my own cadre of Inquisitors wielding a daemon weapon unknown to the others as opposed to a daemonhammer, and now it's what the heck do I do to counts-as that stupid eagle... *sigh* Thankfully that's more of a long term project ^_^ Slightly OT My original Idea for my Coteaz was to use a different company's model, and give him a minigun to represent his eagle attack (random hit's equal how accurate he is with the recoil, silly guy using a minigun 1 handed!). I managed to get the model together, but didn't like it, and I like the coteaz model, so I bought him (still haven't used him in a game due to having no henchmen), and I generally give my second slot to my terminator armored inquisitor, (with psycannon to represent his lovingly crafted and well braced minigun) which is much cooler looking then the Coteaz model. Back OT I do quite like the idea of an army of inquisition storm troopers, shame you have to take Coteaz... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3136891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's not really a shame. Lets be honest, even if Henchmen were Troops without him, we'd still take Coteaz :) he's stupidly good value, making Henchmen Troops is just icing on the cake Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257437-inquisition-storm-trooper-idea/#findComment-3137942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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