UltraTacSgt Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 For this discussion I would like to more or less exclude the consideration of Named Characters unless you feel like it makes for a very relevant point. Aside from Honor Guard vs Command Squad the real difference between Captains and Chapter Masters is the 25pts for the Orbital Bombardment. It seems to me that modest points cost it is a great opportunity to really change the course of a game. Sure it could scatter and miss, but if it only scatters a short distance, or if By the Emperors Will it gets a direct hit, you are smashing the ever-loving snot out of some unlucky units with a Str 10 AP 1 Large Blast. Against certain foes who deploy in a close formation, you could drop it turn 1 and have a chance to change the whole course of the game. Barring that, in a later turn you could say a hasty prayer to the Emperor before bringing down the wrath of your battle barge in an all or nothing shot at blasting a particularly annoying enemy target. It's 25pts that could be spent elsewhere. And it's a shot that could miss and be wasted. But hey, an unlucky PF sergeant could catch a precision shot or blast template and get iced just the same. So....do you think that the orbital strike is worth taking if the 25pts aren't desperately needed elsewhere in the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Aside from Honor Guard vs Command Squad the real difference between Captains and Chapter Masters is the 25pts for the Orbital Bombardment. trouble is you cant really push that aside, honour guard are immense due to new changes to power weapons, if your planning a list with HG in mind then the chapter master is essential, making the orbital bombardment cake. the same goes for HQ choices like marnus calgar, you dont buy him for the OB, its just a nice extra i guess the question should be "has anyone ever upgraded the captain to a CM, just for the orbital bombardment" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphiel Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 With the new rules on blast templates and the fact that it is AP1, the Orbital Bombardment becomes all the more worthwhile. This, with the fact that Honour Guard have become even better, makes the Chapter Master a good (of not to say great) HQ choice. The one thing that bothers me though, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Orbital Bombardment cannot be fired while the Chapter Master is embarked on a vehicle without any fire points. If you're running your Chapter Master in a Land Raider for example, and you want to use your Orbital Bombardment on turn 1, you'll have to deploy outside of the transport in order to use the bombardment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It's treated as a weapon so if you haven't a firepoint you can't fire it. The way round this is to put the Master on the table first turn and embark the next turn. Not great if you want to move, but then Landraiders with 2 Lascannons can still move 6" and fire then next turn you jump inside. Ideal for a counter attacking force. It's a reasonable sucker punch to be honest. I've blown up many a Landraider or Battle Wagon with it in the past, winning me games in the process. When it misses it is disapointing, but you won't lose because of it. Now that any part of a vehicle under the template and not just the hole in the centre is hit at full force, it becomes much more accurate against large vehicles and has the potential to smash a whole group of vehicles turn one. A particular boon if Ork players want to put all their vehicles within radius of a Kustom Force Field. The use of the weapon should be considered based upon the need to move up the table combined with how good the target is. If you against a small elite army, chances are you can afford to drop an Orbital Bombardment and lose the movement advance for the turn. Like wise, a Leman Russ squadron could do with a nuking to even the odds. However, if the opponent is not going to be too hurt from an Orbital Bombardment and you need to close with them as soon as possible (Tau and Imperial Guard springs to mind) it might be worth not dropping template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Now that any part of a vehicle under the template and not just the hole in the centre is hit at full force, it becomes much more accurate against large vehicles and has the potential to smash a whole group of vehicles turn one. A particular boon if Ork players want to put all their vehicles within radius of a Kustom Force Field. This was the part that stood out to me when I was reading the new rulebook. No more half-strength hits means Ordnance became a whole lot more threatening. There was nothing worse than a 4" scatter moving you from a S10 hit on a Land Raider to a S5 hit. The Aegis Defense Line has been instantly popular in my FLGS crowd. Folks are parking everything from Tau squads to Psyrifle Dreads behind them for the 4+ cover saves, and they do so in a huge, bunched formation. The OB can make a sizable number of those units into pancakes. Also nice is the fact that wound allocation ranges for Barrage weapons are measured from the hole in the template, so if the enemy has bubble-wrapped an important unit or character, a direct hit can make things messy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It's not just Honor Guard vs Command squad. For me it's Orbital bombardment/Honor Guard vs. Command Squad/Bike troops. Both captain and master have gotten warlord rule boosts for army buffing and being scoring. Masters in the honor guard makes them a very dangerous scoring unit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Well Scoring only being a 1 in six chance of happening doesn't really make that reliable though. Besides, Honour Guard should be carving through opposing units! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 i use calgar so i have no problem with deploying him outside of the raider and firing the OB first turn, jumps back in on the next turn and they shoot off ready to kill everything. just to check Calgar gets re-rolls to wound on all shooting, that includes the OB right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 just to check Calgar gets re-rolls to wound on all shooting, that includes the OB right? Yes, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 in the word of monty burns... Excccelllent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Josef Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 in the word of monty burns... Excccelllent This made me laugh. As an aside Calgar got better with the new rules given he has the Gauntlets of Ultramar and a Power Sword he can issue and accept challenges with confidence. OB was worth taking in the last edition in my opinion. now with no 1/2 strength shenanigans and it's brutal on large vehicles - Landraider mounted Hammernators I'm looking at you! With regard to the ancillary units with the upgrade to bikers a bike mounted Command Squad + Captain and bikes as troops vs an Honour Guard Squad + Chapter Master is not a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Calgar got better with the new rules given he has the Gauntlets of Ultramar and a Power Sword he can issue and accept challenges with confidence. with re-rolls to wound the power sword is more akin to a lightening claw, which is nice. i run calgar with honour guard, so the chapter champion issues the challenges, it leaves calgar free to munch through whole squads with 7 power fist attacks. love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of the Forge Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I think this is excellent I have always wanted to field a Chapter Master but over the Librarian and chaplain I never thought of why take the CM but now im convinced to take honour guard as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remmy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Anyone else imagining a 2k point alpha strike list with 4 chapter masters + 6 thunderfire cannons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I've often wondered just how powerful I could make an Honour Guard with a pair of Chapter Masters, particularly using 2 Orbital Bombardments. I might try it one day! 2,000pts games with 4 such weapons is amazingly useful against most armies! Imagine the look of an Imperial Guard gun line after your shooting phase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 4 chapter masters?! That really puts the Alpha legion to shame. I'm the chapter master! No, I am! No, me! No, it is I! EDIT: Not to mention overworked honor guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 And of course, as Ultramarines, we can take 6 Honour Guard Squads at 2000pts....if we want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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