new to gk

[Castellan Alaric]

so i'm a templar player, and am wanting to expand into another army and grey knights have always been a favorite of mine. i'm wanting to keep it all grey knight centered, so i'm not wanting to use inquisitors or henchmen. i would be open to using an assassin, however, a vindicare has always seemed like a great choice. anywho, i really don't know whether i'm wanting to go with paladins and draigo, or power armored (either purifiers with crowe, or some strikes/interceptors/purgators with a libby or grand master)

 

any ideas? strengths and weaknesses? just curious, i certainly appreciate the mid-range capabilities of gk, and would like to play on those strengths. psycannons are the premier mid-range weapon (especially with psy-bolts). as a templar, i do enjoy good cc units as well, and as gk all have power weapons (be it swords, halberds, or hammers) and high initiative they really fill both rolls quite well.

 

i do appreciate the advice.

[spartan249]

I can give you general pointers about the playstyle of PAGKs in 6th edition from my experience so far.

 

PAGKs are one of the few footslogging Power Armor builds that can be fully functional without any form of vehicular transportation for them IMO. Strike Squads have a decent point to firepower ratio (especially with psybolts) and are able to engage just about any target and have the chance to inflict serious damage to it. The model count will be mediocre compared with other marine armies (like BT), but each model will be very capable at shooting while still able to perform somewhat well in close combat. The main problems with PAGK armies will be difficulty with creating situations of local superiority due to a bulky unit footprint (comparatively speaking... IG and Orks have a serious problem with this), vulnerability in close combat to high initiative power weapon wielding units and a large amount of ranged weapons with AP3, and a serious tax when using specialty Nemesis Force Weapons.

 

Generally, there are 3 ways around playing PAGK lists. First way is to use a large amount of basic Strike Squads to deep strike into desirable positions and fight it out from those positions, using their high point-to-firepower ratio to put the hurt on the competition. Second way is to start with them deployed on the board and move like an ocean wave, constantly maintaining a 18"-24" range to the opponent while firing all their weapons to full effect, then charging when the opponent gets close enough to threaten close combat (Silent Requiem played this way, and he dubbed it the Way of the Water Warrior. The tactics and strategy were written for a 3rd edition of the army, but still remains true in this edition). Third way is to use Rhino/Razorback equipped Strike/Purifier Squads to create an artificial fortified line and use those Rhino/Razorback chassis vehicles to limit LOS and block assaults for the Strike Squads to whittle down enemy forces starting from the most valuable models.

 

I predominantly use the first method of implementation, as I think it's the most reliable way to ensure that I get at least one full round of shooting at full efficiency and enter the positions that I want to keep without too much incident or say from the opponent. Against the rare opponent who still uses a walking horde of models that want to get into assault, I use the second method to cut down the masses as they drive in (Orks predominantly use this method, and Nob Bikers are a common sight in these armies. I will not lie, Nob Bikers are super hard to take down with Strike Knights, so support from Terminators or Dreadknights are very necessary when driving off such attacks. I use Dreadknights to support my Knights during these situations and I have never been disappointed by their performance, at least so far).

 

While I'll leave the meat and potatoes of TDA equipped Knights to other players who are more experienced with that, I will say that Terminators as a whole swap point efficiency in ranged combat with sheer power in close combat. Where PAGKs fall flat, Terminators wade in and kill with authority. Of course, an army composed exclusively of Terminators will find themselves in situations where close combat is necessary because their shooting was inadequate to disable the enemy sufficiently much more often then PAGK armies will by the simple fact that they carry half the guns PAGKs do for the same point values.

[Castellan Alaric]

BIG help, thanks. i wrote up a 1000 list roughly with the codex i got ahold of. i now this isn't the army list section, but i am still in the planning stages. it uses PAGK and some paladins to see how they work:

 

libby-mc'ed hammer, might of titan, sanctuary

paladins (5) - 2xpsycannons, hammer, psybolts

strikes (10) - 2xpsycannons, hammer, psybolts razor-tlassc, psybolts, ea (combat squad the hammer + sb's in the razor and keep the psycannons backfield)

strikes (5) - 1xpsycannon, mc'ed hammer, psybolts (mc'ed hammer was the 5 pts left over lol)

 

i threw in some core units i'm going to most likely be using. purifiers are another option, and are better in cc ya? they have cleansing flame, and can get more psycannons or incinerators in there as well. however, they have the "crowe tax" to use them as troops...which kinda stinks as he is just an odd duck. not necessarily bad, but difficult to field effectively i feel.

 

for simple tactics, i figure the paladins and libby plod forward slinging psycannons around finding the hardest target to destroy while the strikes and razor lay down some covering fire for them. my most common opponent is orks, as it were, and all these guns will make him cry, which is just GRAVY! :( thanks again for the help spartan!

[spartan249]

I think there is one thing wrong with this list: You have spent way too much on your HQ. At 1k points, you really need to conserve points on the HQ so that you can have a very solid number of grey knights for both staying power and killing power.

 

It's most unfortunate that you have chosen to eschew the Inquisitors as an option, as I think the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in TDA with a Psycannon is the most efficient and useful HQ in low point values. Barring him, the next best thing you could probably do is include a Brotherhood Champion. He's cheap at 100 points, he's a great deterrent in assault with his ability to remove a model in combat when he dies, and he is a force multiplier for the squad he is with when you are required to engage in close combat.

 

As you add more points to the list, the Librarian becomes a more viable option, as his force multiplier powers gain effect as more grey knights hit the field. Until at least 1500, I suggest the BC as your HQ of choice, unless you understand exactly what you are doing and want to use the GK Grand Master to take advantage of Grand Strategy.

 

Hybrid PAGK + TGK armies are where I think the most versatile build is at, as it has equal capability in both shooting and close combat. Experiment with both Strike squads and Terminator squads to see which fits your fancy more. Just remember that Strike Squads bring Warp Quake, which royally screw over drop pod armies, daemon armies, and suicide units that depend on Deep Strike to do their work.

[Castellan Alaric]

appreciate the feedback. so if i drop the libby and add in the brotherhood champ, do i expand the 2nd strike squad to 10, add another psycannon and then combat squad that too? or keep it big? probably a bigger unit would be desirable, as i already split 1 yes? with that, i'd have 2 psycannons on the pallies, 4 from 2 units of strikes, and an assault cannon totting razor with angry cc-oriented marines inside (could put the champ in with arty armor, not TDA) i think it could work at 1k points.

 

it's is quite satisfying to get so much killy stuff at 1000 pts. when writing templar lists, it all costs too much. nothing like psycannons or anything of the sort. good stuff. thanks again spartan!

[spartan249]

That'll probably provide enough firepower to throw on some serious hurt. Those Paladins will probably stick around for quite a while as well.

 

Just remember that, unlike BT, GKs are an army that thrives on versatility. No GK unit ever has a set role to play in the army, so read the situation and act in the most efficient way possible.

 

As a beside note, I'd ditch the EA on the Razor to MC the psycannons on the paladins and the hammer on the justicar.

[Falstaff]

On the whole most of the codex is pretty good. I would advise to stay away from Brother Captain Stern, he's bad compared to a standard GM. Also don't bother with Crowe unless you want purifiers, most players think of him as more of a tax than a model in his own right.

 

Most other choices will be fair to good depending on your playstyle. Can't go too wrong.

[Castellan Alaric]

awesome guys, really great info, thanks. i'm gonna try and get a game with this list and see how things go (proxying first). hopefully here soon i can find a friggin job and buy some more models, but for now gotta proxy lol i was thinking purifiers, but i do like the versatility of the first group i wrote up there. i'll try it out first to see what happens.

 

i do have 1 concern about a brotherhood champion, being only 1 wound is a little nerve wracking. what about a brother-captain? the champ has titan herald, which rocks, but that 1 wound is kind of glaring at me. how bout a captain with a hammer, psybolts, and 1 servo skull (deep strike the pallies)? decent idea or no? i figure i'll need those psycannons firing asap, but won't be in range til probably turn 2-3.

 

just looked at the inquisitors, and can see why people bring them. termy armor cheap, another hammer and psycannon all for around 100pts. a solid option for sure. how do they fare in combat? only t3 which stinks, but they do have termy armor, which is nice. i'll have to try out both ways and see which one i like i guess.

[Zeratul29]

If you go Inquisitor, with TDA, psycannon, and give him a psychic power: It's 110 points, stick him in the paladin squad, give him divination primaris power, and you have 12 psycannon shots with rerolls to hit :) I understand if you dont want to use inquisitors( I generally don't) but I do you the malleus one with this build only) I might consider it if I were you ;)

 

Generally, TDA knights are much more durable, especially in 6th, for most everything that will ap you in close combat will go after you, but you will have a lower model count, spartan was right about a mix of PA and TDA being very versatile.

[Castellan Alaric]

appreciate the help. 110 pts is a steal for a 3w termy armor, psycannon wielding gentleman? for sure. is divination in the new rulebook? cuz i don't have it yet...grrr anywho, that sounds great indeed, rerolls to his are nice, but 12 psycannon shots is downright mean haha

 

thanks again fellas, i think i might have set up a game today against orks, so i'll let ya know how it goes.

[Zeratul29]

And if your playing horde armies, Purifiers are the way to go as well ;) good luck against the orks, post a battle report if you can

[Castellan Alaric]

oh will do for sure man, hopefully he's available for a game today, cuz it's 45 mins to gw and that's a helluva drive ugh...lol

[Deathlokke]

One thing I noticed that I haven't seen mentioned yet. Psybolts don't affect psycannons. That makes It inefficient for 5man squads.

[Zeratul29]

your right there, if anything for terminators with psybolts, take a 10 man squad to increase the effectiveness of it, then combat squad them if you wish :P

[nurglez]

The 2 cheapest HQ's worth taking are that inquisitor and Coteaz, while Coteaz is slightly cheaper and has 2 psychic powers, the inquisitor has a psycannon and terminator armour. Coteaz's I've been expecting you is a nice bonus, as is unlocking henchmen as troops (though I've never used Coteaz and don't intend to use henchmen as I love terminators).

 

My love for terminators let me have a terminator inquisitor packing a master crafted minigun (psycannon), and he suit's my Draigowing (paladin army) well.

 

I would lose psybolt's from the paladins, for the same reasons mentioned above :P

[Inquisitor Fox]

Allow me to agree with the points that the others are raising about the psybolts, but say that I put psybolts on Everything. Remember boys and girls, a str 5 stormbolter can glance Rhino hull'd vehicles, and glances are death now. Lets take some of that burden off the one man with a psycannon and spread the love around. That and it's way easier to just remember everything is at least strength 5 rather than some units are and some aren't.

 

I'd recommend say the following list (which I'm sure other people would tweak to their own preference) if you want a pure Grey Knight / non-Inquisition army:

 

;)

Brotherhood Champion w/ psybolts (105)

 

:eek

5 man Terminator Squad w/ 4 halberds, daemonhammer, psycannon, psybolts (245)

5 man Strike Squad w/ daemonhammer, psycannon, psybolts (140)

*Razorback w/ TL assault cannon, stormbolter, psybolts (95)

6 man Strike Squad w/ daemonhammer, psycannon, psybolts (160)

*Razorback w/ TL assault cannon, stormbolter, psybolts (95)

 

:P

Dreadnought w/ 2 TL autocannons, psybolts (135)

 

army total: 975 points, leaving some room to play around with weapons, mastercraftings, losing psybolts here and there to maybe take other upgrades or try to squeeze in another unit. At a small game I think this army would do really well. You've several vehicle hulls, put out a lot of firepower, have 3 scoring units (one of which is scoring Terminators) which are all relatively mobile (assuming deep striking the Termies).

 

As the Codex is designed and fluff is written, a regular Space Marine army uses power armored troops backed up by power armored Veterans and terminator armored specialists (and scouts). The brunt of the work is done by the power armored troops. The Grey Knights are reversed (similar to the Bretonnians of Warhammer Fantasy) in that the army uses terminator armored troops backed up by terminator armored veterans and power armored specialists (and Inquisition). The brunt of the work is done by the terminator armored troops. While a lot of people use hordes of Purifiers and ignore standard Terminators, I don't feel that's the way the book and fluff are designed. Strike Squads are designed to garrison an objective while the actual assault and forward progress is done by the terminator armed troops. Interceptors play a support role, as do Purgation squads. Paladins and Purifiers are our veterans and gravy. The workhorse of the Codex is the Terminator Squad (especially with 2+ armor save being really really burly in 6th due to power weapon AP changes).

 

At least that's my take on it ;)

[Castellan Alaric]

wow, i really appreciate all the input and advice. it will all be taken seriously. now, i had a game today against chaos space marines and i won 4-2. this rocks, because i've been on a losing skid with my templars and getting back into the W column is great. here's my list, as above:

 

OMI-TDA, psycannon, psyker 1 (divination - those powers are AWESOME)

paladins (5) - 2xpsycannons, psybolts, hammer

strikes (10) - 2xpsycannons, hammer, psybolts w/razor-psybolts (combat squaded the hammer+4 regs in the transpo' - leaving 2 cannons and 3 regs as a sitter)

strikes (10) - 2xpsycannons, hammer, psybolts

 

he brought a lord w/daemon weapon, 2 units of beserkers (skull champs has axe's), a unit of 10 chosen (2xplasma,2xflamer,1xmelta) and 2 oblits (my biggest problem)

 

so turn 1 wasn't that great. he went first - damn oblits rolled great on their scatter rolls shooting plasma cannons and kill 2 strikes right off the bat, who fell back and down a level (started on the 2nd - i figured i'd fire some psycannons on the advancing horde, but alas no dice lol) his chosen infiltrated and had my left flank and moved up to wipe that strike squad (left them unsupported - OOPS)

-my turn 1 i moved my razor to the left to help those 3 dudes out, and shot the 10 man squad at the oblits doing 3 wounds and him saving them all. the paladins hid behind the wall to avoid plasma fire from the oblits.

 

turn2:

he shot the other strike squad killing 3. now this was bad, but i rolled 10 4+ cover saves and made 7! my dice are notoriously TERRIBLE, so that was awesome. the chosen moved up and killed another of the strike knights on my left obj. the zerkers rolled terrible for difficult terrain and running so them kinda strolled up the middle of the board lol

-now, my turn was great (really saw the strength of paladins with a psyker) the pallies and inq shot at the zerker squad coming at my right flank (i cast the spell that made my attacks ignore cover :tu: ) and i think i killed 3 (no rends... ;) ) my, now 7-man, strike squad shot at the oblits again, but he made all his save again...the razor and last 2 dudes of my left 5-man combat squad shot at the chosen and killed 1 between them.

 

turn3:

he killed 4 strikes (including both psycannons...) with the oblits and pistol shooting from the middle zerker squad (had 3 saves and rolled triple 1s...oh my goodness...) i lost both guys to wipe my 5 man combat team on the left, and he took 2 hull points off my razor shaking it. he tried to charge the pallies, but he missed by 2" (would change the game big-time)

-fortitude is AWESOME, i shook my shaken (haha) result and disembarked the strikes inside, and decided to set up a charge on the chosen, which in hind sight was a terrible idea...i cast the spell for counter-attack and overwatching at BS on the pallies and shot up the zerkers before they charged, killing 2 or 3. i moved my 3 remaining strikes down to the ground on the right side - to avoid plasma fire...after disemarking the strikes shot at the chosen, killing 1.

 

turn4: (down to the nitty-gritty)

my left combat squad with the hammer lost 3 guys to shooting from the chosen, and i took 1 wound on a pally from a pistol. now, the zerkers charged and i killed 5 between rending (3 :D ) and failed saves. i lost 1 pally to the lord, and took a wound on 2 others. i returned by killing the champ.

-i hid my 1 remaining hammer strike on the right (i tried to charge, lost 1 to overwatch and rolled snake eyes on my charge distance...ugh) i beat the crap outa the lord in 1 go, after he hit himself with his own sword ( :huh: ) and consolidated towards my left flank.

 

turn5:

he moved his chosen by my 1 strike to get at my warlord + pallies and managed to kill 1 that had a wound alread with a plasma shot, and wounded my inq. the oblits shot at the hammer dude, but he made a 5+ cover to stay alive!

-i moved the pallies to shot+assault the chosen. i killed 5 shooting and the last 2 in assault taking no wounds from overwatch or cc. the game ended on turn 5.

 

so i had an obj (+3pts) and warlord (+1) for a total of 4, and he had first blood (+1) and line breaker (+1) for 2.

 

all in all, i'm very impressed with gk. i was a little foolish and thinking i was indestructible (which led to the near loss of all my strikes). that was all a deployment error, as usually he deep strikes his oblits. he remember about warp quake right as he was deploying so decided to deploy lol i was wanting to stay all GK, but that inquisitor held his own. at lower pt levels i say he beats the brotherhood champ, due to multi wound and termy armor. if the champ had 2 wounds i'd go for him, but i feel he's a little fragile. in the future i'd drop the psybolts on the pallies, but keep it on the strikes with 10 men in 1 unit. that could hurt vehicles and infantry alike.

 

my first purchase (probably late next month or september, whenever i get a job) will probably be 2 termy boxes, 4 gk boxes and a dreadknight (love the model and want a big walked to put together). that look like a decent starting point?

 

thanks again for the help!

[Castellan Alaric]

In addition to the disposition of my purchases I have an idea for color scheme as well. There's another thread in the forum about "black" knights from the old picture of the grey knights, and I want darker knights but not black. More obsidian metal looking. I'm thinking prime black, leadbelcher, nuln oil and then necron compound to highlight. What do you guys think?

[Zeratul29]

I think thats a good colour scheme tbh. just do a basic coat of leadbelcher, then apply nuln oil till you get it the narkness you want, and then follow up with the necron compound as you said, I was using necron compound toay, its really awesome. Oh and on the dreadknight, don't make the psilencer arm weapon, build the incinerator and the psycannon arm weapons, they're way better :tu: and you dont have to glue the arm weapons, which is awesome, otherwise I think your on the right track with building your army :)

 

What color are you doing for the eyes?

[spartan249]

You're on a solid start, I'd say.

 

Welcome to Grey Knights, hope you enjoy your stay :)

[Castellan Alaric]

well zeratul, i just the idea for green (which i haven't done before). i think that dark black will look good with some glowing green eyes. teamed up with gold and bone colored bits, sprinkled red here and there will bring the model to life indeed, i think. whenever i get some models here later this summer i'll post em up for c&c :)

 

i think i will spartan, i was very impressed with how psycannons and the paladins preformed against chaos marines, which is a stern test for any marine army. paladins = tough as nails, can dish out TONS of damage in cc and from range totting psycannons. probably going to be a feature in most of my lists to follow. at 1000pts i might trade them for 10 regular termies? 2 squads of 5?

[Castellan Alaric]

i put together a list using purifiers in a redeemer, and am just curious if they are viable to use as a single elite slot dedicated cc unit (i put in 4 incinerators and 5 halberds with a hammer)? would it be better to run crowe and spam psycannons? or run 1 purifier unit decked out in a transport (redeemer/crusader or storm raven) and run strikes/termies coupled with rifleman dreads as fire support?

[Castellan Alaric]

so i ran the above list against this ork list at 1250:

weirdboy

shokk attakk gun

boom gun

29 shoota boys (with the weirdboy)

29 shoota boys, nob klaw big shoota

15 lootas

12 lootas

8 grots (guarding the shokk attakk gun)

 

i smashed some serious face this game (made me love gk even more. the orbital strike relay absolutely won me the game.

 

turn1 - i got 1st turn, standard deplyment, 3 obj's. i deployed my skull in the middle close to an obj for 1 strike squad i reserved for deep strike. i deployed my gkgm with 1 strike squad on my right flank behind a hill for cover from the boom gun, the dk and interceptor behind a wall out of LoS from the boom gun and both loota units. turn 1 i launched barrage bombs (used it 2x) and managed to kill 6 lootas on the right unit and 4 boys from the weird boys unit. the dread knight shunted up the left flank to heavy incinerate 6 lootas in that unit. his turn 1 saw the dread knight shot by the lootas, and 29 shoota boys + nob and only lose 1 wound haha thank you t6 and 2+ armor. the boom gun missed, lootas didn't do anything, and weirdboy missed as well haha

 

turn2 - orbital strike saw the shokk attakk guns unit fail leadship and run off the board and the left shoota unit fail ld and run off the board 2! my 3rd shot didn't hit anything (i was aiming at the boom gun) i tried to move + run the interceptors towards the obj on my far left flank, but rolled a 1" on my run and got caught in the open. my strikes on the right shot at the weirdboys unit and kill half of them (9 i think) the other strike unit came down direct hit and 4 could shoot at the weirdboy's unit to kill all but a nob + 7 boys. good shooting all around. the dreadknight killed 5-6 boys total before he died turn 3. boom gun killed 6 interceptors (psycannon survived) and i lost 1 from the deep struck unit.

 

turn 3 - i moved the deep struck unit in the open to take shots at the boom gun along with shunting the interceptor psycannon as well. the grand master shot his psycannon (his unit moved onto the hill and obj) and they killed all but the nob in the weirdboy's former unit. my deep strike unit shot at the boom gun to no avail along with the interceptor. he shot the boom gun and lootas at my strikes in the open, but it scattered to hit nothing and i saved all the loota shots. at this point it was done.

 

turn 4 - i moved back onto my obj in the middle to take the lead 2-1. and he conceded. a solid win for the knights.

 

the orbital strike was epic vs the orks! now, against power armor that you'll face at a tourney it's not worth it, but against eldar, guard, orks and the 4+ armor like it is devastating. with the d3 templates it makes up for the s6. now, just basic strikes with psybolts are outrageous as well against stuff they can pierce armor. psycannons against power armor you really need rendings to bust 3+ armor (MEq) but s5 = more wounds and more saves for your opponent which is good. i'm impressed with the durability and ability to dish out punishment of basic strike squads. they might not get more than 2 psycannons but psybolts i think makes up for it, especially when they have a leader join them with a psycannon.

 

this makes me 2-0 playing as gk and quite happy being on a 2 game winning streak haha thanks to all for the help again, i'm sure i'll have more questions for you to ponder as well. much appreciated~