Shiro the Betrayed Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 so I know that the Fallen were thrown off Caliban by the warpstorm that Luthor caused, but how did the DA find out that the Fallen had not died, but were scattered through out the galaxy? Did they just start finding them on planets, or amoungst other traitor warband? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 That's a good question. I don't think anyone has ever bothered to ask that as long as I've been on here... or I missed it. Did they just start finding them on planets, or amoungst other traitor warband? Perhaps so? And perhaps it could present a good reason why they finally changed to wearing full dark green armor as we don't have a clear cut timeframe for that either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3133848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Codex: Dark Angels states that the Chapter's Librarians were inducted into the Inner Circle and subsequently their scryings revealed that the Fallen had been scattered throughout space and time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3133881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Well there ya go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3133969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 so I know that the Fallen were thrown off Caliban by the warpstorm that Luthor caused, but how did the DA find out that the Fallen had not died, but were scattered through out the galaxy? Did they just start finding them on planets, or amoungst other traitor warband? About this detail in the Codex. No single army fallen, they are different. Somebody became a pirate, someone decided to live correctly (ha-ha ;) ), someone joined the Сhaos. Read the codex. that is better than him, do not tell. There are well described it. Angels looked for them everywhere, regardless of what these breeds the concrete fallen. By the way, in the code of 4 editions it is not written that Luther caused a varp-storm. It were gods of Chaos. It is interesting, what will be in the new codex? Again all will alter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3133971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 That's a good question. I don't think anyone has ever bothered to ask that as long as I've been on here... or I missed it. Did they just start finding them on planets, or amoungst other traitor warband? Perhaps so? And perhaps it could present a good reason why they finally changed to wearing full dark green armor as we don't have a clear cut timeframe for that either. The armor of a Lion was black. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3133996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiro the Betrayed Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 So they changed it, after the battle, when he dissapeared into the Rock to recover? Also its kind of a pity that the way the DA found out was just by being told that the Fallen survived. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 So they changed it, after the battle, when he dissapeared into the Rock to recover?Also its kind of a pity that the way the DA found out was just by being told that the Fallen survived. In the story "Сall of the Lion" it is described that partial repaint of an armor began earlier. For example, Belat's shoulder was green in honor of Caliban. But as a whole a black armor was used. Not to learn about emergence Fallen it was difficult... Some Fallen were employed by military experts on different planets or became leaders of pirates. Dark Angel without an Chapter eventually drew to itself attention. Especially, some behaved too actively. Probably, they became more careful, when them started to catch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Also its kind of a pity that the way the DA found out was just by being told that the Fallen survived. Not a pity at all, what it means it simply has not be fleshed out. I'd think Heresy series will take us beyond the Heresy and into the scouring. The armor of a Lion was black. As was the rest of the Legion and the Fallen who got pulled into the Warp. I know that it has been established that they began wearing a green shoulder pad in honor of Caliban during the Crusades, but we still have never been given background on why they changed from black armor (with green on shoulder and only Calibanite marines as far as we know) to the full green they wear today. Perhaps the their discovery of the Fallen who would still be wearing said black could be used as a reason. It's not written, so we can't really say what the reason is just yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 As was the rest of the Legion and the Fallen who got pulled into the Warp. I know that it has been established that they began wearing a green shoulder pad in honor of Caliban during the Crusades, but we still have never been given background on why they changed from black armor (with green on shoulder and only Calibanite marines as far as we know) to the full green they wear today. Perhaps the their discovery of the Fallen who would still be wearing said black could be used as a reason.It's not written, so we can't really say what the reason is just yet. Probably. It is the good version. It is interesting that Sayfer's armor green. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys Dwr Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It is interesting that Sayfer's armor green. I'm sure it's been said somewhere that was just a painting error when the model was first released. Cypher was painted as a DA and the DA are green; the chap painting him didn't know about all the back story. Al Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It is interesting that Sayfer's armor green. I'm sure it's been said somewhere that was just a painting error when the model was first released. Cypher was painted as a DA and the DA are green; the chap painting him didn't know about all the back story. Al wow! Now about Sayfer's green armor it is written in the codeх and in various books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It is interesting that Sayfer's armor green. I'm sure it's been said somewhere that was just a painting error when the model was first released. Cypher was painted as a DA and the DA are green; the chap painting him didn't know about all the back story. Al wow! Now about Sayfer's green armor it is written in the codeх and in various books. Yea, now we can just rationalize it as he wants to blend in with the current DA. So when he found out they painted their armor green, he did likewise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 so I know that the Fallen were thrown off Caliban by the warpstorm that Luthor caused, but how did the DA find out that the Fallen had not died, but were scattered through out the galaxy? Did they just start finding them on planets, or amoungst other traitor warband? About this detail in the Codex. No single army fallen, they are different. Somebody became a pirate, someone decided to live correctly (ha-ha ;) ), someone joined the Сhaos. Read the codex. that is better than him, do not tell. There are well described it. Angels looked for them everywhere, regardless of what these breeds the concrete fallen. By the way, in the code of 4 editions it is not written that Luther caused a varp-storm. It were gods of Chaos. It is interesting, what will be in the new codex? Again all will alter? A little hard to read, mate. That happens though. lqtm Why they say Luther caused it is because of his fall into Chaos and then his sudden "snap out of it" when he struck Lion. The Chaos god(s) wigged out over another failed attempt on destroying another aspect of the Imperium and the warpstorm happened. So it's an inadvertent fault of Luther's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 It is interesting that Sayfer's armor green. I'm sure it's been said somewhere that was just a painting error when the model was first released. Cypher was painted as a DA and the DA are green; the chap painting him didn't know about all the back story. Al wow! Now about Sayfer's green armor it is written in the codeх and in various books. Eh, in WD281, Heroes&Villains of the 41st Millenium article, he's only mentioned with "dark power armour" beneath long robes. So that can go either way. Anyone know what colour he got in WD89? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 By the way, in the code of 4 editions it is not written that Luther caused a varp-storm. It were gods of Chaos. :huh: Thats the way its been since the background of the schism was first introduced. It is interesting, what will be in the new codex?Again all will alter? Its likely it will remain the same as its always been, i.e. the Chaos Gods caused the storm in a fit of pique at yet again being denied. Edit - Anyone know what colour he got in WD89? I didn't remember Cypher being in WD89, so I had a look through my copy to doublecheck, and sure enough no Cypher. Are you sure you meant WD89? --------------- @Reinen - Not meaning to be harsh, but for somebody I've seen making such unequivocal statements about the background of late, you seem remarkably ill-informed about quite major aspects of the actual background. Might I suggest you check your facts better (do you doublecheck your facts? ;)), as that'd be the best way to avoid making any further misleading/inaccurate declarations of "fact". Or simply be clear that what your saying is how you remember/understand things. I think the worst part of it is that you appear to have at least some working knowledge of the background, as snippets of valid information seem to find their way into the mix, but that only serves to lend a false air of validity to the invalid information its accompanying. I apologise if this comes across as overly harsh, but the declarative way that you present your view of the background has the potential to lead to unfortunate misunderstandings. Somebody without a very good working knowledge of the background might take your flawed declaration of background "fact" as the truth, which would only serve to perpetuate the spread of that misinformation. If you're going to state something as though its background fact, then you need to be sure its actually background fact. I, for one, would never go making the sort of declarative statements I've seen you making, without being sure that what I was saying was in fact accurate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 @Reinen - Not meaning to be harsh, but for somebody I've seen making such unequivocal statements about the background of late, you seem remarkably ill-informed about quite major aspects of the actual background. Might I suggest you check your facts better (do you doublecheck your facts? :)), as that'd be the best way to avoid making any further misleading/inaccurate declarations of "fact". Or simply be clear that what your saying is how you remember/understand things. Everything that I write, I can confirm with quotes from books and the codex. I read ALL books about DA, instead of one Lexicanum. And I am not guilty that authors od BL write there that they write. Or there is an opinion which are obliged to adhere all? If You want to ask, argue providing quotes from books and codex. Or don't read my messages if don't want. I thought, here not inquisition and not censorship. I didn't want to be harsh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I apologise if this comes across as overly harsh, I didn't want to be harsh. I suggest to all (including me) to take our time and iron out our responses because statements like those quoted above sound like a bit ironic. If we dont want to be harsh i am sure we can all compose no harsh statements instead of post asking sorry. My 2 cents for better internal relations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I apologise if this comes across as overly harsh, I didn't want to be harsh. I suggest to all (including me) to take our time and iron out our responses because statements like those quoted above sound like a bit ironic. If we dont want to be harsh i am sure we can all compose no harsh statements instead of post asking sorry. My 2 cents for better internal relations. I don't take offense at brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Didnt imply you do friend. I suggested it as a rule of thumb for all of us in oder to avoid difficult situations. A little more care is all it takes to make more friendly posts ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Didnt imply you do friend. I suggested it as a rule of thumb for all of us in oder to avoid difficult situations. A little more care is all it takes to make more friendly posts ;) I agree with it. I understand, why discussion about Astelan, еtс. caused such emotional explosion, but I can not calm brothers because of a language barrier. For example, it is sometimes difficult to me to give jokes on English. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I didn't remember Cypher being in WD89, so I had a look through my copy to doublecheck, and sure enough no Cypher. Are you sure you meant WD89? That's what Lexicanum says on his page. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3134910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I didn't remember Cypher being in WD89, so I had a look through my copy to doublecheck, and sure enough no Cypher. Are you sure you meant WD89? That's what Lexicanum says on his page. Theres your problem, you relied on Lexicanum, which (surprise, surprise) is wrong yet again. --------------- @Reinen - If, as you claim, you can back up everything you write with quotes, why have you roundly failed to do so? I own (and have read) every piece of DA fiction GW have produced thus far, so if you want to quote something I'll have it and will be able to doublecheck it for myself. But the sources you refer to and the conclusions you're presenting just don't match up. I still stand by my remark that your background knowledge appears to be lacking. You weren't even aware of a key aspect of the DA background like the Chaos Gods having always been the ones depicted as being responsible for the Warp Storm that tore Caliban apart after Luther was lost to them. Thats key DA info. Out of interest, what language versions of the books (Angels of Darkness, Fallen Angels, etc.) do you have? English or Ukrainian (you're Ukrainian, right?)? Do they have Ukrainian language editions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3135276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 MadDoc, I think this is really just a language barrier thing. I'm pretty sure everything Reinen has said is correct, it's just the way he's saying it in reply to others that is getting misinterpreted because of the broken English. For instance, in reference to what you just said.... I still stand by my remark that your background knowledge appears to be lacking. You weren't even aware of a key aspect of the DA background like the Chaos Gods having always been the ones depicted as being responsible for the Warp Storm that tore Caliban apart after Luther was lost to them. Thats key DA info. He said earlier... so I know that the Fallen were thrown off Caliban by the warpstorm that Luthor caused, but how did the DA find out that the Fallen had not died, but were scattered through out the galaxy? Did they just start finding them on planets, or amoungst other traitor warband? About this detail in the Codex. No single army fallen, they are different. Somebody became a pirate, someone decided to live correctly (ha-ha :P ), someone joined the Сhaos. Read the codex. that is better than him, do not tell. There are well described it. Angels looked for them everywhere, regardless of what these breeds the concrete fallen. By the way, in the code of 4 editions it is not written that Luther caused a varp-storm. It were gods of Chaos. It is interesting, what will be in the new codex? Again all will alter? He was saying that in all the Codices, it has been written that Chaos caused the warp storm. He was responding to Shiro's earlier comment in which he said "...thrown off Caliban by the warp storm that Luthor caused ..." I believe he took that literally as Luther made the storm himself and thus responded that it was Chaos. I can't vouch for any other threads that he has posted in (as I have not noticed them) but if you go back and reread all this comments - take them out of context if need be - you will see that what he is saying isn't wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3136533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinen Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I can't vouch for any other threads that he has posted in (as I have not noticed them) but if you go back and reread all this comments - take them out of context if need be - you will see that what he is saying isn't wrong. Ok! I got it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257582-learning-of-the-fallen/#findComment-3136587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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