afrodude112 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 The last time I played a game of 40k was during 5th edition with Grey Knights and I'm currently planning on going to my local GW to get some games of 6th ed in and I was wondering, according to the latest FAQ psychic hoods are null and void and now we use something called "Deny the witch". I've heard that it starts as a 6+ or 5+ for a default mastery level 1 psyker and increases by one with each additional mastey level, is this right? I need to know so i can know weather or not to upgrade my libby to lvl 3. Also any word on major changes to the way psychic powers work would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplainmeliadus Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Basically right. Every time an enemy psyker casts a power on you, you get a 6+ chance to negate the power completely. If you have a psyker of your own, this is increased to 5+. If you have a psyker which is a higher master lever than the one casting the power, you get a 4+. Psychic hoods still have an effect. They let a model with one use his mastery level to try and protect friendly units within 6". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3134637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Chaplain Meliadus is exactly right. So, most every unit in the game gets a 6+ "Deny the Witch" roll to attempt and resist a psychic power. Units which are Psykers get to add their Mastery Level to this roll; so, your Grey Knight Strike Squads, for instance, get a 5+ Deny the Witch. (Also remember the Aegis, which reduces the Ld test of Psykers casting on you.) Something to keep in mind is that Deny the Witch only works to deny powers that directly target one of your units; you can't use Deny the Witch (or your Psychic Hood) to prevent the enemy from buffing or affecting its own units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3134746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennedy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Chaplain Meliadus is exactly right. So, most every unit in the game gets a 6+ "Deny the Witch" roll to attempt and resist a psychic power. Units which are Psykers get to add their Mastery Level to this roll; so, your Grey Knight Strike Squads, for instance, get a 5+ Deny the Witch. (Also remember the Aegis, which reduces the Ld test of Psykers casting on you.) Something to keep in mind is that Deny the Witch only works to deny powers that directly target one of your units; you can't use Deny the Witch (or your Psychic Hood) to prevent the enemy from buffing or affecting its own units. Why cant you use your psychic hood to prevent enemy psychic powers not directed against your squad? Is this something new, or am i missing something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldegg Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'm curious as well, the codex says we can use it each time an enemy model passes a psychic test. Nothing specifically about what type of power it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Read the FAQ They say to completely ignore our codex rules for psychic hoods, and use the main rulebook ones instead Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripath Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'm curious as well, the codex says we can use it each time an enemy model passes a psychic test. Nothing specifically about what type of power it is. faq'd I'm afraid, otherwise codex would trump rulebook. edit:thats what I get for falling asleep before hitting post Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's true, it's a fairly major change in psychic defenses for the entire game. Gone are the halycon days where my lone Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor shut down an entire 6000 to 10000 point tyrannid army in a single apocalypse game by herself, single handedly. *pats the Inquistor Nicole Pyykkönen model on the head* It's okay, I'll always remember how awesome you are... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
emeraldegg Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry I haven't gotten into the habit yet of looking at the FAQs. Apologies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Read the FAQ They say to completely ignore our codex rules for psychic hoods, and use the main rulebook ones instead Read the Space Wolf one and cry. Of course the SW should be better than GK at psychic defense, right? It's weird. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Read the FAQ They say to completely ignore our codex rules for psychic hoods, and use the main rulebook ones instead Read the Space Wolf one and cry. Of course the SW should be better than GK at psychic defense, right? It's weird. Yes, we abhor other psykers but love our runepriests :) I thought the new psychic hoods were just like the runic weapons for wolves just shorter range. Will have to re-read. ---- Re-read.. Damn! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Read the FAQ They say to completely ignore our codex rules for psychic hoods, and use the main rulebook ones instead Read the Space Wolf one and cry. Of course the SW should be better than GK at psychic defense, right? It's weird. Yes, we abhor other psykers but love our runepriests :) I thought the new psychic hoods were just like the runic weapons for wolves just shorter range. Will have to re-read. ---- Re-read.. Damn! Damn, indeed. 4+ 24" nullify, followed by a 5+/4+ Abhor, followed by a 5+ Wolftail, capped off with a 5+ Runic Invul... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Read the FAQ They say to completely ignore our codex rules for psychic hoods, and use the main rulebook ones instead Read the Space Wolf one and cry. Of course the SW should be better than GK at psychic defense, right? It's weird. Yes, we abhor other psykers but love our runepriests :) I thought the new psychic hoods were just like the runic weapons for wolves just shorter range. Will have to re-read. ---- Re-read.. Damn! Damn, indeed. 4+ 24" nullify, followed by a 5+/4+ Abhor, followed by a 5+ Wolftail, capped off with a 5+ Runic Invul... Well at least it's good to know that you can assault them and get more attacks than them. It would just be silly if they could shoot you and get +1 attack when you assault them. Oh wait... :P And don't forget that Njal is at 3+ :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3136949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Lighten up guys. Why not take a space wolf ally of convenience, 1 rune priest and 2 squads of Grey Hunters. They are still scoring troops choices and you get the toys you all seem to wish you had. Thats why GW came up with allies in the first place, allies throws open the door to the lolly shop and defuses the whole codex envy thing. A Space Wolf Rune Priest with chooser of the slain and 2 squads of Grey Hunters are probably the most solid base ally unit you could take, plus cheaper than GK troops choices. Take em and be happy :D you could buy a box of fenrisian wolves and magnetise little wolf tails on your GK counts as models ;) , that or model a few beer cans on the bases :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3137555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I can't do that, personally, as there's a bit of weirdness between the Wolves and the Knights in the wake of [ =I= EVENT ID REDACTED =I= ] but that was my original plan, prior to 6th, prior to the GK 5th Ed codex drop...to take GK as allies to Space Wolves and get half of each force for funsies. Now there's, well, weirdness. By all means, though, go to town. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3137568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I can't do that, personally, as there's a bit of weirdness between the Wolves and the Knights in the wake of [ =I= EVENT ID REDACTED =I= ] but that was my original plan, prior to 6th, prior to the GK 5th Ed codex drop...to take GK as allies to Space Wolves and get half of each force for funsies. Now there's, well, weirdness. By all means, though, go to town. <3 Yeah kinda neat aint it seeing how conflicted people can get with the fluff over winning compulsion. Nothing says WAAC ;) cheesemeister like a Grey Knight Space Wolf combo but now no-one has a right to complain to you either these days with allies, enjoy ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3137583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I beg to differ. I have a pretty strict anti-WAAC stance that my local group seems to recognize (and even sympathize with, whether or not each one of them enjoys the WAAC ideals or hates them). I find my best games are those I play against either the artist/painter crowd or the "Just here for the good times" crowd. I reserve the right to look derisively on an army list that is a clear affront to The Most Important Rule and The Spirit of the Game; they didn't build this game to be cheesed and broken...they built it to be enjoyed. Despite how much the designers say this, the WAAC community is louder still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3137589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 1 rune priest Because the rune staff blocks our own powers <_< :P silly GW, didn't think things through when they made us Allies of Convenience with everyone Imperial Nothing says WAAC cheesemeister like a Grey Knight Space Wolf combo but now no-one has a right to complain to you either these days with allies, enjoy ! Or mega-fail. Because every time you try to cast 'Hammerhand', 'Might', force weapons, 'Cleansing Flame' etc etc, the Rune Priests blocks you on a 4+. Its not even an optional thing, it just happens. I beg to differ. I have a pretty strict anti-WAAC stance that my local group seems to recognize (and even sympathize with, whether or not each one of them enjoys the WAAC ideals or hates them). I find my best games are those I play against either the artist/painter crowd or the "Just here for the good times" crowd. I reserve the right to look derisively on an army list that is a clear affront to The Most Important Rule and The Spirit of the Game; they didn't build this game to be cheesed and broken...they built it to be enjoyed. Despite how much the designers say this, the WAAC community is louder still. :lol: Or maybe we could not play the label game? This hobby is small enough to begin with, dunno why we have to go tribal and declare people persona non grata because they have different ideas to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3137971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 1 rune priest Because the rune staff blocks our own powers :D ;) silly GW, didn't think things through when they made us Allies of Convenience with everyone Imperial Nothing says WAAC cheesemeister like a Grey Knight Space Wolf combo but now no-one has a right to complain to you either these days with allies, enjoy ! Or mega-fail. Because every time you try to cast 'Hammerhand', 'Might', force weapons, 'Cleansing Flame' etc etc, the Rune Priests blocks you on a 4+. Its not even an optional thing, it just happens. I beg to differ. I have a pretty strict anti-WAAC stance that my local group seems to recognize (and even sympathize with, whether or not each one of them enjoys the WAAC ideals or hates them). I find my best games are those I play against either the artist/painter crowd or the "Just here for the good times" crowd. I reserve the right to look derisively on an army list that is a clear affront to The Most Important Rule and The Spirit of the Game; they didn't build this game to be cheesed and broken...they built it to be enjoyed. Despite how much the designers say this, the WAAC community is louder still. ;) Or maybe we could not play the label game? This hobby is small enough to begin with, dunno why we have to go tribal and declare people persona non grata because they have different ideas to you. Plus one for what Darius said ;) I have a lot of respect for Thade but some people "enjoy" WAAC playing and I can learn from these players who optimise. Hey the rune priest thing sounds awesome ..... In my Blood Angel list. Since Blood angels have patched up their differences with the Wolves we are battle brothers. A Rune priest in a Storm Raven radiating psychic shutdown is the best deny the witch out there by the look of it :cuss I dunno how this information helps GK but is a deny the witch thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Wrong thread bro, you want the Blood Angel forum :) but yeah, good to know Wolves hate us as much as Dark Angels Grey Knight waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Rune Priest were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway. Grey Knight was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to Emperor "I want to be on the ships Emperor." Emperor said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS" There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the Imperium he knew there were demons. "This is Rune Priest" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demons!" So John gotted his storm bolter and blew up the wall. "HE GOING TO KILL US" said the demons "I will shoot at him" said the Greater Demon and he fired the warp. John boltered at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill. "No! I must kill the demons" he shouted The radio said "No, Grey Knight. You are the demons" And then Grey Knight was a heretic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 1 rune priest Because the rune staff blocks our own powers :) <_< silly GW, didn't think things through when they made us Allies of Convenience with everyone Imperial Nothing says WAAC cheesemeister like a Grey Knight Space Wolf combo but now no-one has a right to complain to you either these days with allies, enjoy ! Or mega-fail. Because every time you try to cast 'Hammerhand', 'Might', force weapons, 'Cleansing Flame' etc etc, the Rune Priests blocks you on a 4+. Its not even an optional thing, it just happens. I beg to differ. I have a pretty strict anti-WAAC stance that my local group seems to recognize (and even sympathize with, whether or not each one of them enjoys the WAAC ideals or hates them). I find my best games are those I play against either the artist/painter crowd or the "Just here for the good times" crowd. I reserve the right to look derisively on an army list that is a clear affront to The Most Important Rule and The Spirit of the Game; they didn't build this game to be cheesed and broken...they built it to be enjoyed. Despite how much the designers say this, the WAAC community is louder still. :lol: Or maybe we could not play the label game? This hobby is small enough to begin with, dunno why we have to go tribal and declare people persona non grata because they have different ideas to you. Plus one for what Darius said :D I have a lot of respect for Thade but some people "enjoy" WAAC playing and I can learn from these players who optimise. Hey the rune priest thing sounds awesome ..... In my Blood Angel list. Since Blood angels have patched up their differences with the Wolves we are battle brothers. A Rune priest in a Storm Raven radiating psychic shutdown is the best deny the witch out there by the look of it :rolleyes: I dunno how this information helps GK but is a deny the witch thread. You can't put allies in an allied transport, even brothers in arms, otherwise I would have an inquisitor zooming around in a Valkyrie ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Plus one for what Darius said :D I have a lot of respect for Thade but some people "enjoy" WAAC playing and I can learn from these players who optimise. Purely an aside, but since it came up....I put on as good a show as I can in my not-so-silent, lonely war against what I'd call "angry WAAC" (pronounced "angry whack"). I do value fluff and affection (as in, for a given model that is provably sub-optimal) as a basis for army choices, and I really appreciate it when other players follow this similar path. That's not to say that I dislike optimization or that I judge others poorly for doing it. (At least, that's not my intention.) I often play against lists that are optimized where mine seems not to be, and - usually upon request - I will field "tournie practice lists" for my friends to clash with. I don't judge people based upon their desire to attempt to optimize, nor their enjoyment of doing so. I work in software research, but much of my work goes into speeding things up and shoring up memory leaks and access violations. I'm the "pointers guy" (if you've ever seen C in your life, well, that *is* my life) so optimization defines much of my career. When I am home for the evening I really need a break from it, and that is why - personally - I derive extreme pleasure from throwing Captain Vehemus on the table: my power-armored captain who dual-wields Thunder Hammers. He seems sub-optimal, right? The cost of the second Thunder Hammer is the same as the first, but adds only one additional attack. At times people ask me "Does he count as having only one Thunder Hammer?" to which I reply, "No, my entire army is completely WYSIWYG; he's dual-packin'." People fear this guy as he (at least seems as if he) has an unnatural ability to weather fire, solo-charging across the table long after his unit was cut down by anti-tank fire, plowing through units and weathering lascannons and missiles as he does so. In reality he's just as likely to go down as you'd expect, but that's not the way people treat him. Also, I custom built the off-hand thunder hammer - one of my earliest conversions - so I have increased affection for it. <3 I do my best to (both passively and actively) encourage people to step away from angry WAAC...not from optimization per se, but from the attitude that seems to pervade at least most tournies I've been to (with a few spectacular exceptions). The attitude that "If I don't win, I most definitely did not have fun." The attitude that one must argue and gripe about any rule that he or she perceives to put them at a disadvantage. The one who builds an entire list around a small loophole, trying to sell us all on things like "Yes, my four transports full of Psyker units make my assassin here shoot Assault 40". That's the stuff I don't like. I see "fluff and model affection" on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, and so that that is where I try to sit and what I kind of preach about. Sorry about the preaching. I do like to gab. <3 Optimization and "angry WAAC" are different things; one can optimize and not be a WAAC player. A WAAC player, however, cannot help but optimize. That's the only connection, really. That makes sense in my head; I hope it does here too. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratul29 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I would love to see a pictureof a pa captain holding two thunder hammers :D And your right on that Thade Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well...as he'll be a frequent ally to my GK I suppose it's somewhat relevant. He doesn't actually appear in my cheesy lil fan fic WIP, but...all in good time. Not the best shot of him, and not my best work, and he no longer wears the banner due to a fluff retcon of mine (bout a year ago now, I think) but here he is: http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/391/img1708h.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Hey the rune priest thing sounds awesome ..... In my Blood Angel list. Since Blood angels have patched up their differences with the Wolves we are battle brothers. A Rune priest in a Storm Raven radiating psychic shutdown is the best deny the witch out there by the look of it :rolleyes: I dunno how this information helps GK but is a deny the witch thread. I would happily take an allied Njal and a couple of Grey Knight objective campers if it wasn't for my pathological hatred of Space Wolves. I guess that's what happens when you play against SW and only SW for 3 years solid. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257651-deny-the-witch/#findComment-3138466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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