thade Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 From another post, but it merits it's own thread I think (as I didn't want to derail that one). I just actually was considering making the mentor of my own cadre of Inquisitors wielding a daemon weapon unknown to the others I find this very interesting, and wondered if I could do something similar myself...however, I can't get around how such an Inquisitor might hide the daemon weapon from the rest of my force (which is, mostly, Grey Knights). Would GK allow any Inquisitor to wield such a weapon? (I have severe doubts; they're cautious enough themselves with such things.) Could an Inquisitor conceivably conceal it? And what would that mean, really? Would any truly loyal Inquistor hide the fact that he or she wields such a weapon while actively channeling it's power? (Again, I find it hard to believe they could do this and conceal it from GK, especially when the GK are in force.) My understanding is that no Inquisitor would both wield a Daemon Weapon and fight alongside willing Grey Knights. (Codex not in hand, can you even give a Daemon weapon to an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor? You probably can.) But I'd like to be wrong in some legit way so I can do it. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 In the old Codex they were explained as Radical Inquisitors. Contra the Puritan Inquisitors. And if you fielded a Radical inquisitor you were not allowed to include any Grey Knights in the army. What made an inquisitor radical was fielding daemon hosts and I can't remember if the daemon weapon was included in this limitation. Fluff vice I would not say it is possible. The Grey Knights would turn their backs to the inquisitor and report him or what ever they do. Inquisition is one of the top branches after all, and one doesn't just take an inquisitor out for no reason :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 I do in fact have the 4th Ed GK codex (I took them as allies very early in my 40k career...even if very early was the start of 5th Ed. :) ) and that is my feeling as well. I do suspect the GK would deem the Inquisitor unfit and - at the very least - attempt to confiscate the weapon. Hard to pull rank on the anti-demon brigade once they've judged you compromised by a demon. :) So I may be at an impasse here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I think the only key thing was the selection of a daemonhost, since we didn't have the option of giving Inquisitors daemonweapons in the old Codex. As far as them working with Grey Knights with a daemonweapon... I admit, it's dicey. The Grey Knights are painted as much more pragmatic, however they still seem to draw the line at actively using demons. The original idea was the mentor turned to darkness type of thing, though ironically there's no rule stopping an Inquisitor from working with Grey Knights now even with daemonhosts and a daemonweapon. Indeed, if we look at the rules of the Codex it is in fact required! Firstly, you have to take an Inquisitor for your HQ to arm them with a daemonweapon. They must be a generic Malleus Inquisitor. Now, they get their one warband (presumably with daemonhosts). However, they are NOT Coteaz, ergo they must now take 2 units of Grey Knights as troops. Before there were IST units or inducted guard or Space Marines as options, but now there isn't. Beyond their own warband they must take Grey Knights. So what can we infer from this? Did the Grey Knights grow more tolerant of using Chaos against Chaos? A stance of Xanthism if there ever was one. It does throw the whole Puritan vs Radical thing on it's head if the Grey Knights are now painted as neutral in that struggle doesn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 So. I saw "Xanthism" and decided to go look it up. Well... Xanthism is a Radical philosophical faction of the Inquisition. The most overtly Radical grouping within the Inquisition, it advocates the use of Warp-based weaponry, such as daemon possessed swords, daemonhosts, and generally turning the power of Chaos against itself. Named after Inquisitor Lord Zaranchek Xanthus, executed as a heretic in the 32nd millennium. This does NOT breed confidence that I can do this. At least...I can't do it more than once. EDIT: spacing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Original Grey Knights army list had an option for Ordo Malleus Daemonhunters who could take Daemonweapons and lead the Grey Knights force into battle. They didn't have a problem with it at all at the time. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 So then, are we in a position where daemonweapons are historically okay, but daemonhosts have been not okay and are now marginally okay? Gotta love the back and forth :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Grey knight's=ends justify the means Inquisitor=ends justify the means I don't see your problem here... Under the new fluff, why should the GK care as long as the inquisitor kills daemons with them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 ...ends justify the means I don't see your problem here... Under the new fluff, why should the GK care as long as the inquisitor kills daemons with them? haha, maybe it is that simple. Logan Grimnar uses a re-forged daemonweapon (claimed from a Chaos Champion he took out) and the mention of it in Emperor's Gift treated it more as if it was distasteful than an abomination. Perhaps the Inquisitor's reclaimed/reforged blade can have a similar background to it (claimed, reforged, still nasty). The real trick here is that I like my fluff to be the kind of stuff that people local to me can jive with; you know, I don't want to be the guy with "Slaaneshi Sisters and Knights" who 1. like making out and related activities, while 2. serving the Emperor (whom they'd like to make out with). (I mean no offense at all if I just described exactly your army.) It's the most fun for me if my fluff is something I enjoy and the people I game with don't shake their heads and say "That's totally weird. Back in my day...." Naturally I can't please everybody (the number of times I've heard SALAMANDERS DO NOT HAVE SUCCESSORS has dwindled, thankfully) but the less I bend that which people consider established, the better, in my mind. That's why I come here and pose questions to you all. :wallbash: That way, if I do pose something contentious, I can back it up in a well-thought out way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3134933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Logan Grimnar may use a daemon weapon, but let's not use the leader of a band of mutants as an example of how His Most holy Inquisition should act :P The current codex, as has been noted, encourages, indeed requires, grey knights as troops. Therefore, rules wise it seems GK don't care as long as the job gets done. In the fluff, it's less clear cut. Crowe would imply that the possession of daemon weapons is aceptable for "the purest of the pure", so inquisitors probably aren't frowned upon that much for having them. Utilising their full effects however is probably something the inquisitor should do on the DL. They could probably get away with the daemon hosts by well-binding them and only unleashing their full strength when absolutely necessary. Afterwards they could kill it and explain it away as a sanctioned psyker suffering from perils of the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3135044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Afterwards they could kill it and explain it away as a sanctioned psyker suffering from perils of the warp. So, attempt a cover up and lie to a Brotherhood of Psykers. I suspect that would go poorly, haha. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3135088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Afterwards they could kill it and explain it away as a sanctioned psyker suffering from perils of the warp. So, attempt a cover up and lie to a Brotherhood of Psykers. I suspect that would go poorly, haha. :( R In the BRB for 6th we don't get access to telepathy, so an inquisitor experienced in galaxy-wide conspiracies could probably manage it ;) Apparently our psykers are all about the big picture (divination), crush it with strength (telekinesis) and kill it, kill it with fire! (pyromancy). Apparently the imperium's daemon hunters never heard the phrase the devil is in the details... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3135145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well we do have telepathy, such as psychic communion. What I see the book telepathy domain is really is using mind war and force of will battles Eldar style. The Inquisition doesn't worry about that on the battlefield, I mean looking at the "spell list" should help clear that up. The telepathy powers aren't really our style, and ones that are already exist in the Codex. At least that's what I'm telling myself :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3135294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddonshand Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well we do have telepathy, such as psychic communion. What I see the book telepathy domain is really is using mind war and force of will battles Eldar style. The Inquisition doesn't worry about that on the battlefield, I mean looking at the "spell list" should help clear that up. The telepathy powers aren't really our style, and ones that are already exist in the Codex. At least that's what I'm telling myself :eek I never thought of it like that :woot: Although, I actually wish that all of the disciplines in the book were available to all psychic armies, with additional race-specific lores added in upcoming books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3135452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 But if they did that, GW couldn't give certain armies a leg up over others. Y'know, like the Imperial ones :P OT, do whatever man. The Inquisition is a very broad church, the Malleus especially so (as they have the extra burden of knowing about the alternate realm). I probably wouldn't join Inquisitor RadicalFace to a unit of Knights, but so long as he stays away from them they probably won't mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3136249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFacelessMan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I just finished Architect of Fate last night, and the short story Sanctus by Darius Hinks (his first 40k published work I believe) touches on some of this. Minor minor Spoilers The Inquisitor heading up the Relicator mission has a contingent of Grey Knights on board. As well as a Daemonhost. The Grey Knights were along for the ride, it seemed, to be there in case anything went wrong with the daemonhost. So I'd go along the lines of "This (Insert Daemon) could only be contained in this sacred relic blade, so we made the pommel from the engraved thighbone of a Grand Master, thus protecting the Inq from corruption, but should anything happen this handy GK squad is here to help contain the situation." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3137083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Faceless, that may actually be precisely what the doctor ordered. Thanks. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3137085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFacelessMan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 No problem! Somebody should get a benefit from my shelves of novels :) Since you brought this up I'm giving it a look in the codex, and now I kinda want to make an Inquisitor with one too. I just finished putting my last box of GKT together tonight, so I needed something else to do before I go pick up my lady at the airport tomorrow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3137089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 No problem! Somebody should get a benefit from my shelves of novels :) ;) Since you brought this up I'm giving it a look in the codex, and now I kinda want to make an Inquisitor with one too. I just finished putting my last box of GKT together tonight, so I needed something else to do before I go pick up my lady at the airport tomorrow. I've got all sorts of fun pieces to make an Inq with a DW, but coming up with a back story that was convincing and not dreadful was proving impossible for me. It may still, but this is more to go on than I had before. Still seems to get stuck on my unfortunately black & white view of the GK. When they encounter demons, they try to destroy them; failing that, they try to banish them; failing that, they try to entrap them; failing that, they die. If they manage to trap a demon, they stick it in their vaults where it sits and they subject their trainees to them at times. Where and how they ever get talked into being cool with the Inquisitor logging it around - no matter how hold, powerful, or influential - I'm still thinking. Maybe 'not sensing any presence of corruption on him' is enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3137093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFacelessMan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I think it comes down to the individual Inquisitor whether they trust them or not. Plus it might also be a factor on what kind of daemon is in the blade. I know most seem to be low level things, but occasionally some really awful one gets trapped in one. It might simply be a matter of it promising to help guide the Inquisitor and party to the location of the one who trapped it out of spite. If it's one of the daemons that the Grey Knights value as a high priority target like one of the 666 greater daemons known to mankind, then they'd probably go ahead with the plan then hang it up on Titan thus banishing and taking a daemon out of circulation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3137112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well, its quite simple. Inquisitors have the power to call in the Grey Knights, while The Grey Knights have no power to boss inquisitors around. In the 41st millenum, its the rosarius that makes the man :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/257665-how-to-justify-the-use-of-a-daemon-weapon/#findComment-3137262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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