Valkyrion Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 The rules in the rulebook apply to all daemons, whatever the source.The rules in the codex only apply to codex daemons. Didn't address this, but you're right. Unfortunately, none of the units in the codex have "Daemon" listed twice, at which point they'd have the rules for both. If they're in the codex (like the new models), then they only get the codex version of Daemon. From the 'special rule' section of the rulebook; 'unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative.' In this instance, daemons are under the effects of multiple special rules - BRB Daemon and Codex Daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's the same special rule. It has the same name. That's like saying GK can use both the BRB Brotherhood of Psykers and the Codex version of Brotherhood of Psykers, as they're different rules... They're not. Different *versions* of the *same* rule, they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's the same special rule. It has the same name. That's like saying GK can use both the BRB Brotherhood of Psykers and the Codex version of Brotherhood of Psykers, as they're different rules... They're not. Different *versions* of the *same* rule, they are. The FAQ cleared this up with the Brotherhood of Psykers by saying to use the BRB one. It doesn't say that in the Daemon FAQ. I under the opinion that if you are a Daemon you get the rules from the BRB, if you are a Daemon from Codex Chaos Daemons you get the Codex rules in addition to the BRB ones. Because if not it would be the biggest nerf in the history of GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 The rules in the rulebook apply to all daemons, whatever the source.The rules in the codex only apply to codex daemons. Didn't address this, but you're right. Unfortunately, none of the units in the codex have "Daemon" listed twice, at which point they'd have the rules for both. If they're in the codex (like the new models), then they only get the codex version of Daemon. From the 'special rule' section of the rulebook; 'unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative.' In this instance, daemons are under the effects of multiple special rules - BRB Daemon and Codex Daemon. Hmm - this is an argument I can get behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 The FAQ cleared this up with the Brotherhood of Psykers by saying to use the BRB one. It doesn't say that in the Daemon FAQ. I under the opinion that if you are a Daemon you get the rules from the BRB, if you are a Daemon from Codex Chaos Daemons you get the Codex rules in addition to the BRB ones. Because if not it would be the biggest nerf in the history of GW. /shrug It was an off the cuff example. There are other exmaple,s but I've not got the time to go through all the FAQs to find one that works. :D Point is, it's the same special rule with two different rule sets. Not two different special rules that you can stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlâdvar The Destroyer Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 After thinking about the new Official rules update from WD, it should follow all the rules from the C:CD + the FAQ and where the missing Inv saves are concerend, I believe that this must be a typo.... & they have gotten their wires crossed with the daemon rules from C:CD & the 6th ed rule book... :( I guess GW can't get everything right, gotta wait for the 2.0 FAQs to come out to clear thengs up i guess... for now in the games that I play, I will just have to make a house rule saying the Alluress should have a 5+ & the updated Tzeentch guys have 4+ inv saves... cuz it just makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Point is, it's the same special rule with two different rule sets. Not two different special rules that you can stack. This is how I will be playing it till an FAQ clears it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Point is, it's the same special rule with two different rule sets. Not two different special rules that you can stack. This is how I will be playing it till an FAQ clears it up Me too. Then I'll see if the FAQ clears it up. We know FAQs are more balances then authentic interpretations, after all. Just look at the GK hallberds and reduced to 1 Ini. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Isn't this just the case of minicodex daemons not having an ARMOR save (Sv. - in statline), thus conforming to the BRB Daemon rule of "always has 5++"? And if they had, say 3+ Sv in the statline, their 3+ would become 3++, in accordance to the minicodex Daemon "their armor save becomes invulnerable" rule? So, if you dig a Daemon out of your Codex that DOES have an armor save (and does not have a newer statline in the minicodex!), that save would become an invulnerable one, even if it's lower than 5+. IMO that's the most logical and least harmful solution (to the Daemon player and his opponent). I'd table-rule it like that and play. What say ye? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 There's lots of RAI I'd use. Especially waiting for a BRB FAQ. But I understand that not everyone likes to play *my* 40K. So on the OR, I stick with discussing RAW. :) (persoanlly, I'm up for giving the poor Daemons any help they can get. Unless these new 4HP 90 point Chariots with 4d6 rending hammer hits at I10 proove to be OP. In which case, they're gonna be out of luck, and back to RAW you go! :)) Seriosuly. 90 points for a 4 Hull Point Chariot. At first glance that seems a tad unbalanced to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 Well it is only AV11 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Well it is only AV11 ;) Indeed. It's not OP. Immobilize it and it becomes useless. I don't want to go off topic but it seems the opposite of OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Well it is only AV11 msn-wink.gif Like a Rhino? Or rather only slightly more than two Rhinos. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 So, Seeing how the Soulgrinder doesn't get the 5++ for being a Daemon (see the FAQ saying ''Text in brackets remains the same'') I'm guessing that the new chariots don't get it, right? Or are they just lucky and they get it when the Grinder doesn't? We need a general consensus poll so we can see what people think is the resolution for this whole thread! ;) There I was, happily thinking that Screamers/Flamers acted like the rest of the Daemon dex and now had 2 wounds but only a 5++ save. Seemed so straightforward. Oh - on the topic of the new chariots, let us not forget it's 90 points, AV 11 and open topped. It's a 90 point venom with no guns and no night shield (although 4 Hull Points). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 With the interesting increase in flamer/screamer lists out there, it is important to get the new unit rules clear resulting from the just released limited edition codex daemon supplement. I'll watch this all develop with great interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Pamphlet dex Screamers and Flamers are still part of the C:CD, so your first port of call for any special rules is the C:CD. You have no reason to ever refer to the BRB for the Daemon rule because it is clearly defined in the Codex. And Codex > BRB. They have no save until specifically FAQd otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 After thinking about the new Official rules update from WD, it should follow all the rules from the C:CD + the FAQ and where the missing Inv saves are concerend, I believe that this must be a typo.... & they have gotten their wires crossed with the daemon rules from C:CD & the 6th ed rule book... :D I guess GW can't get everything right, gotta wait for the 2.0 FAQs to come out to clear thengs up i guess... for now in the games that I play, I will just have to make a house rule saying the Alluress should have a 5+ & the updated Tzeentch guys have 4+ inv saves... cuz it just makes sense Vlad, we discussed this remember? we agreed that all the daemons in the updated booklet have a 5++ :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 When I close a thread and state "PM myself or Darkgaurd to reopen" that doesnt mean dredge up another thread on the subject from the abyss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 We have a solution, and whatever anyones opinion on it may be its a workable one. Enjoy. Chaos Daemons FAQ 1.2 Q: Do models chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons and / or the White Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Chaos Daemons official update have the Daemon special rule from the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, or do they have the Daemon army special rule from Codex: Chaos Daemons? (p27) A: All models from Codex: Chaos Daemons and/or the White Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Daemons official update have the Daemon army special rule listed in Codex: Chaos Daemons with the addition of the Fear special rule from the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and a 5+ invulnerable save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 GW... purveyors of common sense since 6th edition :D loving the new direction GW, keep up the good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Does this mean that all daemons from codex or WD update now have a 5++, regardless of what they used to have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 No. I don't have it to hand, but the wording in C:CD states that the save on the profile is invulnerable. The FAQ states daemons have a 5++, but you always use your best save - (think SM Captain with Iron Halo in Terminator Armour with a Storm Shield - he has a 5++, a 4++ and a 3++) edit - replaced BRB with FAQ, as the FAQ simply adds rules to the C:CD version of the Daemon Rule, it doesn't actually grant the BRB daemon rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Yes, all daemons now have a 5+ invulnerable save. Hpwever, some daemons have a better save, as described under Invulnerable! and according to their statline, and you always use the best save available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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