Discussion about SM's dual wielding Pistols

[Surfing Raziel]

While reading through the new 6th edition rules, I stubbled upon the Gunslinger rule (p52).

 

Gunslinger: All models with two pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase. This follows the normal rules for shooting.

 

I thought that was cool and remembering the model of Cypher, could look quite cool. So I followed up with a run through the standard SM Codex. This means most Sergeants and above can equip either a Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol or two Plasma Pistols, only a few deviate from this pattern, namely the Vanguard Veterans and the Legion of the Damned Sergeant.

 

Chapter Master/Captain (p131/2)

Replace bolt Pistol and/or Chainsword with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Tactical Sergeant (p134)

May replace his Boltgun and/or Bolt Pistol with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Scout Sergeant (p134)

May replace his Boltgun and/or Bolt Pistol with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Sternguard Veteran Sergeant (P136)

May replace his Bolt Pistol and/or Boltgun with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Assault Sergeant (p138)

May replace his Bolt Pistol and/or Chainsword with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Legion of the Damned Sergeant (p138 and can only be equipped with a Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol)

May replace his Boltgun with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Any Vanguard Veteran Model but the Sergeant (p139 and Only Sergeant who can't Gunsling)

May replace his Bolt Pistol and/or Chainsword with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

Devastator Sergeant (p142)

May replace his Boltgun and/or Bolt Pistol with:

• Plasma Pistol

 

This opens a massive new style of fighting to nearly every level, although the cost for a basic Sergeant to be upgrade might too much, it's still cool.

[DarkGuard]

This isn't OR, but rather Tactica Astartes, so I'm chucking it over there.

 

Also, do bear in mind that posting individual points values is against board rules and an infringement on GW's IP. I've edited them out for you, but please do remember this in future. Thanks.

[Jiron]

Hey,

actually this rule made me think about new "space cowboys" chapter :-)

I was thinking about several 5men squads with sergeants with double plasma pistols and it seemed to work pretty fine.

However that much point for a sergeant is quite too much. On the other hand, it's assault 2 plasmagun added to your squad with 3 attacks in CC base. :-)

[Brother Captain Josef]

I have recently made a p/pistol b/pistol (as per Cypher!) especially because of this rule.

 

It does make taking a CCW pointless though as IIRC two pistols still gets you the extra attack in close combat? Why would you take one when you can get an extra shot prior to the charge?

 

I did think 2 x plasma pistols on one chap might be a bit pricey but then in 5ED my tac sergeants ran about with P/Fist and Combi-Weapon which comes to 5 points more anyways... If you can spare the points then why the hell not? :)

[Surfing Raziel]

I agree it would be cool to see, however the reality of fielding such units is a little risking and seems a little bit of s point sink. But then again if you wanted to go all out with Vanguard Veterans and have 5-10 guys with 3 attacks, this would be heading in the 500+ cost. Not even taking the Jump Pack option into account, but I'd love to see it in action

[ShinyRhino]

It is a very cool rule, and makes me want to model up a Vanguard Squad all with dual plasma pistols, put them in a drop pod, and have them gunslinging on arrival.

The problem is the cost of the weapons when compared to a plasmagun, which a Command Squad can do better and cheaper. The only benefit of the dual-pistols is that you get the +1A in melee, and can charge after firing both plasma shots.

 

Also, the FAQ allows the LotD Sergeant to swap his bolter and/or pistol, so he can indeed get two plasma pistols.

[Valkyrion]

I don't have my codex to hand, but does the gunslinger rule now make any normal assault marines I had modelled with two pistols instead of BP and Chainsword illegal?

[Lucien Eilam]

If you paid the points to replace a chainsword with a plasma pistol, that's fine. He can fire both of them at once.

 

If you just modelled a regular Assault Marine with no upgrades as having two bolt pistols, that's… well, I hesitate to say illegal, but not wysiwyg. A model with two pistols can fire both, so it's no longer an irrelevant modelling choice and the unit entry doesn't allow it.

 

I'm sure your opponents will be able to figure it out though, as it's not an option any Assault Marine can take. Just don't fire the second pistol.

[nusphigor]

Sorry for the threadnomancy but I really like this idea

 

I just made in paper a 5 man Vanguard Veteran squad with dual plasma pistol (except the sergeant, he only has one) on drop pod and I can see its uses :P

 

Its pricey, yes (almost 300 pts), but those 9 plasma shots before an assault are a dream come true :lol:

 

I think I'm going to build that unit just to paint it and see what happens. I just wish vainilla marines could attach apothecaries as the bloody angels do :/

 

Thanks for the idea!

[rpnightsend]

What about this with a Razorback spam list? 3 Tactical Squads in Las/plas Razorbacks with a Command Squad in a las/plas Razorback and then some Dreads and Predators for AA/Tank Hunting. Seems fun to me. Just need some anti-horde (maybe a squad of sternguard or 2 in las/plas backs with heavy flamers? ;))

[ShinyRhino]

What about this with a Razorback spam list? 3 Tactical Squads in Las/plas Razorbacks with a Command Squad in a las/plas Razorback and then some Dreads and Predators for AA/Tank Hunting. Seems fun to me. Just need some anti-horde (maybe a squad of sternguard or 2 in las/plas backs with heavy flamers? :P)

 

How does it tie in with the discussion of the Gunslinger rule though?

[rpnightsend]

How does it tie in with the discussion of the Gunslinger rule though?

Hey,

actually this rule made me think about new "space cowboys" chapter :-)

I was thinking about several 5men squads with sergeants with double plasma pistols and it seemed to work pretty fine.

However that much point for a sergeant is quite too much. On the other hand, it's assault 2 plasmagun added to your squad with 3 attacks in CC base. :-)

I was talking about using the razorbacks with these minimized tac squads

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yeah, but that doesn't sound especially effective. Five men with two plasma pistols isn't anything to be scared of. If you disembark and shoot, that's two plasma rounds and eight bolter rounds -- that'll kill two, MAYBE three MEQs on average -- and then you're getting charged (Overwatch MIGHT get you another one). If you fire all pistols and then charge instead, you're throwing six shots (for one kill) and then fighting in CC with eleven attacks, none of them power weapons. It's poop.

 

All of your combat power in this kind of set up is going to come from the Razorback they're roaring around in, and vehicles, as we all know, have become something less than robust in this edition.

 

The only way I'd consider it is if this was a combat squad and you've got a plasma gun in there, too. Now we're talking four plasma shots inside 12", which, combined with the bolters, the heavy weapon on the other half of the squad (if applicable), and whatever gun is on the Razorback, should be enough to inflict serious casualties on your average ten-man squads. That being said, I'd recommend using a combi-plasma instead of two pistols anyway -- it's the same number of shots, and if you're that close to the enemy, you're likely to get charged or wiped out by shooting the following turn anyway, so take the cheaper option.

[*Furyou Miko]

Personally, I hate this rule.

 

It's stolen one of my army's iconic abilities, after all (Seraphim Pistols).

 

On the other hand, the ability to make any sister superior or even Canoness an "Ex-Seraphim" is kind of cool.

 

So, anyone else with Sisters/BA tried running a dual Inferno Pistol / Plasma Pistol set up?

[rpnightsend]

So, anyone else with Sisters/BA tried running a dual Inferno Pistol / Plasma Pistol set up?

*Shudder* Vampire Clint Eastwoods. Vampire Clint Eastwoods everywhere.