Librarians vs Inquisitors

[spartan249]

My question to you dudes is this. When you want to take an HQ for psychic powers, how do you do so? Librarians or Inquisitors of whatever configuration?

 

In my estimation, Librarians are nearly obsolete when compared to Inquisitors. Both have access to the same generic powers, but Inquisitors can take a large variety of different types of gear and weapons while the Librarian is limited to melee weapons. While I was enjoying the librarian for the ability to take 3 powers for 200 points, I was finding that 2 wounds, no saves vs perils, and anti-psyker rules were really limiting the usefulness of the Librarian, as psychic shenanigans are all he is capable of. I'm really warming up to the Inquisitor simply due to the fact that he's much cheaper then the Librarian and has the ability to contribute to the fight in more ways then just psychic powers.

 

Are any of you even taking Librarians for the stock powers anymore, or are we all now using the awesome new powers?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Take Librarian if you find our codex powers useful

 

Take Terminator Inquisitor otherwise

 

That's really all I can say. Librarian w/stave+3 powers is twice the price, but his powers are pretty unique and useful (although 6th edition has weakened them somewhat)

 

TDA Inquisitor w/hammer+psycannon is an absurdly cheap hero that grants re-rolls on a psychic test (never take anything but 'Prescience' on him).

[Vash]

As above.

 

I use a Librarian as it suits my tactics. Sure compairing the librarian and the inquisitors on their own, an Inquisitor can chose more and are cheaper.

But as said before, all depends on your tactics.

 

I use deep strike and the summoning in my army to reach my enemies front lines. Hence I'll be up in your face with my enemy. So I need the librarians the summoning and close combat effectiveness. Might of titan really helps out.

 

So I would recommend different setting for different players and army styles.

 

The Librarian for me is more useful. Stronger, tougher, higher mastery level, boosts close combat alot.

 

Inquisitor has the advantage of, one extra wound, one extra attack or two and is cheaper.

 

The divination powers are great, but not a must.

[Judaz]

Isn't a librarian soaking most of the incoming fire with a warding stave also something to consider?

[spartan249]

Warding staves only work in CC, so both HQs can soak the same type of firepower. Inquisitors can soak more small arms fire, the libby soaks S6+ wounds without fear of ID.

[sirk]

Another REALLY cheap way to buy psychic powers is Coteaz. For just 100 pts he gives you 2 powers, plus all the free stuff that comes with him. It's that we are so used to lists that buy him for using inquisitorial mercenary as troops that we tend to forget how good his stats are point-wise, expecially now that he comes with 2 divination powers (because we all know Divination is THE sphere :D). And he is Mastery Level 2 as the librarian!

[thade]

Warding staves only work in CC, so both HQs can soak the same type of firepower. Inquisitors can soak more small arms fire, the libby soaks S6+ wounds without fear of ID.

Minor, minor nitpick, but you of course mean "the libby soaks S6-S7 wounds without fear of ID". :)

 

A libby with a Warding Stave is one of the models in our codex that can safely engage a full unit on his own; something he shares with the other GK ICs (GMs, BCs, and BroChamps). He's a beast. That really defines the difference to me; he's the codex psyker, he can take a subset of your favorite powers and can comfortably walk along with the rest of your infantry.

 

I actually don't even consider the Inquisitor to be a competent psyker; he can get *one* power, whether from the codex or the BRB. The Librarian can draw three powers from the BGB or take the entire set from the codex if you so choose. <3 Inquisitors have their uses, but a stand in for the Librarian is not one of them.

 

The Inq is cheaper...because he's more fragile and has a significantly lower Mastery Level. That's the trade off, as I see it.

[spartan249]

Well thade, let's consider the price of both platforms. Librarians start at ML 2 for quite a bit, going up to 200 for ML 3, no upgrades. Inquisitors go at 55 for ML 1, 110 for 2 ML 1 psykers and triple the wounds. Throw on terminator armor and psycannon for each inquisitor, and we're looking at comparable prices to an ML 2 Librarian with upgrades or an ML 3 librarian with nothing. Rather comparable number of psychic powers, a lot more leeway for perils of the warp, and 8 Psycannon shots convinces me that the Librarian is an inflexible HQ when compared with the Inquisitors when the Divination/etc table is concerned.

 

Of course, if you're desiring the GK exclusive powers, then the Librarian is the obvious choice.

[thade]

Of course, if you're desiring the GK exclusive powers, then the Librarian is the obvious choice.

So desiring of those powers am I that I completely disregard that single extra psycannon. (Also, isn't the Inq an IG-style BS 3? No codex at work.) :) But your points are valid.

[breng77]

Inquisitor is bs 4. That said 2ml 1 psykers is not the same as 1 mastery level 2, as they cannot use 2 charge powers and only ever shut down powers on a 5+, the inquisitor also lacks a hood to spread that bonus to multiple units. Inquisitors only get 1 power so they lack the ability to be versatile with powers. Really if you want book powers Cotaez is your best buy.

[emeraldegg]

All the inquisitors are at BS 4, but they do only have S3 while the libby has S4, as spartan mentioned, which kind of offsets the extra wound the inq has. Personally, I'd go with the Librarian in my list for the simple reason that to me, and HQ should be able to do something nothing else in your army can do: The biggest, baddest guys in your army. I can see why people would take inq's for cheap points, especially the malleus with termie armor, but in my opinion you get what you pay for with the librarian. You don't HAVE to go uber expensive at mastery level 3, and he gets a bunch of good powers to choose from; a malleus inq with termie armour for me would just kind of...be there. You have a terminator, for an hq. Whoopie. If your just putting him in there to fill an hq slot, why not use the points elsewhere? (unless it's your primary hq of course.)The only reason I would take a xenos is for a conversion beamer, but if I wanted that, I'd take a techmarine who can have a conversion beamer and bolster a ruin for my precious vindicare. And, well, hereticus is the sux, but that's just me. Also, I don't have the rulebook yet, but don't you have to actually roll on the divination table in the first place? I'd be sick if I took an inq for re-rolling hits and ended up not rolling it.

[spartan249]

You have access to super guide no matter what you roll, as it's a primaris power. I'm looking mainly for Misfortune or Forewarning, as the damage multiplier Prescience + Misfortune provides is insane, while the Forewarning + Strike squad with swords combo essentially gives them storm shields in combat.

 

Grey knights don't really need a psychic hood in this new anti-psyker paradigm, as nearly all our units are ML 1 psykers, and thus get 5+ DtW anyway. Most of the great powers in 40k are blessings anyway, so I don't really care much about bringing a hood at the price of extra firepower.

 

[re: emeraldegg] Honestly speaking, the Librarian felt like he was "just there" for me on the occasions when the Shrouding passed by psychic hoods or runes in 5th. Now, with inquisitors having access to some serious kick ass powers, I feel like I'm liberated from a one trick pony type of HQ and can finally take an efficient firepower based HQ that can also provide me the powers I'm looking for. To each his own, I suppose, but I think GKs need all the help they can get when it comes to firepower, and I frankly prefer when every slot is contributing to the army's damage output.

[Gentlemanloser]

As above, there are really three Inquisitor options, and they all beat the GK Libby hands down. they are;

 

 

1: TDA, NDH, Psycannon OM Inquisitor with Divination

 

2: Coteaz

 

3: A bare bones Inquisitor (doesn't matter which) with Divination. If you have any points left over, buy him something, if you wish. Point is to keep him cheap, and unlock the reroll. Especially good as a GK 'ally' HQ.

 

 

Edit: And take servo skulls on them (apart from Coteaz of course).

[thade]

Actually, I think 1v1 a GK libby could take on any one of those clowns. :)

[Gentlemanloser]

Well at 150 points versus 55, I'd sure hope so. :)

[Crimson Hawk]

One word- Coteaz. He is an absurdly cheap Mastery Level 2 Psyker, with a Daemon Hammer, Artificer Armour, and IBEY. A cheap alternative to a Librarian. I stick him in with a shooty Henchmen squad, and give him Prescience. Hello, deep strikers!

[worloch]

I always consider Special Characters separately, as my local gaming group only uses them with permission.

 

 

I think the real question being asked here comes down to Prescience Vs GK Codex powers.

 

Is anyone in this thread NOT looking at taking Divination on an Inquisitor they have upgraded to a Psyker? Given your Mastery Level of 1 on that Inq, is anyone NOT planning on switching to Prescience as the Primaris Power, regardless of what they roll on the Divination table?

 

 

I've taken a Malleus Inq in Termie armor w/ Psycannon many times, and I may add Psyker to him now to gain access to Prescience, but I don't know that I would count the GK Libby right out based on that. I still find having access to Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary, Summoning, Warp Rift, and even another stack of Hammerhand is very useful.

 

I like the force multiplier in CC that the GK Libby is, even if he is a bit expensive and only 2 wounds. He can do so much more than an Inq, and lets not forget his To of 4 helps him takes fewer wounds than the Inq, in general.

 

 

Overall, I think you need to look at your whole army composition and strategy, and see which works best for you, but I wouldn't count the GK libby out from the get go.

[nurglez]

His T4 over an inquisitors T3 will only really matter for precission shots and in close combat, due to the majority toughness rule.

 

It all depends on what you want, for me a secondary hq that adds Reroll to hit and another psycannon is awesome for his point cost, a libby is good but ends up getting too costly for me in most situations.

[worloch]

His T4 over an inquisitors T3 will only really matter for precission shots and in close combat, due to the majority toughness rule.

 

Indeed, you are correct. I'm still getting used to the 6th ed context and didn't really think it through. Well, in any case, if one does end up taking a wound, having To 4 instead of To 3 helps to make sure you don't get ID'ed.

 

 

 

I think you bring up a good point though, when you said "a secondary hq". How does the GK Libby stack up against the Inq in terms of single HQ choice? What is the best pairing for 2 HQ's, in terms of Libbies Vs Inqs?

[thade]

How does the GK Libby stack up against the Inq in terms of single HQ choice?

This depends on a lot of factors. What kind of a force do you run? What kind of an HQ do you like?

 

If your full force is an in-your-face kind of list (e.g. Paladins or Terminators, lots of DKs, Deathcult Assassins...a lot of stuff that wants to get into melee) then the Librarian is your guy. He'll hold up very very well in a fight and ca take a set of powers to match. You could gear up an Inquisitor for melee with some fun options too - don't get me wrong - but he can't solo-charge a unit of tacticals and expect to come out on top. A librarian can.

 

If your full force is a long-range gun line, getting that extra Psycannon in there that can bring the Divination Primaris power seems really appealing to me.

 

All of that said, you could make one work in the other (very very very generic here) list-style. There's a lot to consider. :D

[Inquisitor Fox]

It's all about army synergy. What's some things the Librarian has that a standard Inquisitor doesn't? Better WS, S, T, armor save. He has The Aegis and They Shall Know No Fear, naturally as he is a Space Marine. He's got preferred enemy (Daemons) but lets ignore that and figure you're fighting lots of opponents. He's got a bigger psyker mastery level, psyk-out grenades, psychic hood, better nemesis force weapon options. Moreover, he has power selections that an Inquisitor doesn't.

 

Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Summoning. Even Sanctuary, Vortex of Doom or Warp Rift can be useful in the right spots. I can imagine the feeling of Warp Rifting a unit of Wraithguard, a Wraithlord, or Carnifex's right off the table ;) Quicksilver renders halberds non-necessary, allowing you to get a better invulnerable save from swords, or bonus attacks from falchions as well as a better init. Might of Titan stacks really nicely with Hammerhand as we all know, but can also be used on say, that Dreadknight you want to smash the enemy Land Raider with his rerolling greatsword in smash mode. "Here ya go Mr Dreadknight, have your bonus d6 back!"

 

Inquisitors are one of my loves of the Warhammer 40K setting. They are often my pride and joy and I love that people are realizing they really are very useful, fun, and full of character. But there are a lot of useful powers in our Codex already and that we don't just have to take the boring route of "Here's my 2 psykers, they both have Divination because I just want to reroll to hit on one unit a shooting phase".

 

In many armies or lists, the "License to practice psychic powers in two dimensions and your face!" style of the Grey Knight Librarian is very, very useful. That and how many psykers do you know that can have 10 psychic powers and use up to 3 a turn do you know? Yes he's expensive if we go that route, but it's quite possible. :D

[Gentlemanloser]

Worloch nailed it.

 

Is anyone in this thread NOT looking at taking Divination on an Inquisitor they have upgraded to a Psyker?

 

That is simply too good a force multiplier in 6th (the shooting edition, oh CC, how I liked you...) to ignore.

 

Snap Fire / Hard to Hit, Overwatch. Divination is there to help. :D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I would clarify by saying this;

 

Take Librarian if you're fielding a Knight army

 

Take TDA Inquisitor if you are fielding a Knightwing/PaladinWing army with only a handful of units (ie a few TDA blobs/Paladin combat squads)

 

Librarians get better the more units they are buffing (ie Sanctuary/Shrouding AOE), and applying 'Might' judiciously to swing combats your way.

 

TDA Inquisitors are all about them and their unit being super-awesome...but everyone else can go to hell. They are spammable at 2k (Coteaz+3), but even then you're only benefiting four units max. 'Prescience' is nice but its only re-rolls, and its only one unit per turn.

 

Fighting-wise, Librarians have the stave and 'Hammerhand'+'Might' stacking going on, but TDA Inquisitor are half price with more wounds and a psycannon for blowing things up prior to charging.