The effectiveness of BA melta

[Zynk Kaladin]

I finally got a quick 6th ed game in against my IG buddy and lemme tell you I'm quite impressed with melta weapons in 6th after puking out shards of my pelvis... We played "The Scouring" 1k points each. My list was:

 

+ libby(JP, sangsword, sangshield)

+ 2x10 RAS(x2 melta, meltabombs)

+ 5 sternguard(x3 combimelta, heavyflamer, droppod with deathwind)

+ 3x1 landspeeders(x2 MM)

 

His was generally(if I remember correctly):

 

+ 1 company command(chimera, lascannon, plasmaguns)

+ 10 vets(chimera, x3 plasmaguns, ceremite armor)

+ 2x10 vets(chimera, x3 melta)

+ russ(x3 heavy bolters)

+ manticore <- only 160 points for this OP cheese?! :cuss?! :mellow:

 

So I get first turn and deploy a RAS with libby and the other RAS behind different cover as best I could. I spread them out as best I could worrying (justifyably imo) about the manticore. A landspeeder was left in the open thinking it would be safe because I would be able to move it in my turn. NOPE. He stole the initiative, rolled a 5 for his manticore getting 3 str10 ordinance large blasts on my squad without the libby... mind you they ALL hit perfectly with no scatter! All but my gloriously heroic sergeant are wounded and die... I'm flipping tables at this point, lol. Sergent passes his morale test. He scores 2 dead RAS on my libby squad because he could see them with his chimeras and such. Damn...

 

My turn is a rousing run the :huh: into the cover I placed in the middle of the field and cry, denying LOS as best as I could. Can't deep strike yet... fml. His deployment is a turtle bubble-rapped with chimeras and vets around the manticore in 1 corner.

 

His 2nd turn he decided not to roll out just yet. He rolls a 5 again for the manticore targeting my libby RAS and all but 1 scatter away(which hits my sergeant FRAKIN LAME)! Thank God, the freakin' Emperor, and Sanguinius for a damn good shield of Sangy roll. My libby, two RAS, and the sergeant are all that stands (gloriously?). Speeder fails its jinx rolls and 'splodes. Free fireworks right? Hah, no...

 

My 2nd turn... DEEP STRIKE EVERYONE(STEEL RAIN)! My sternies SLAM THE :D in an opening... but scatter... into another opening! THANK SANGUINIUS! The other speeder lands menacingly in front of the company command chimera scattering back 1 inch. My last landspeeder scatters into his units and is delayed. At this point I'm about to go metaphysically tear into the dice god kingdom and slap them silly. I decided to use the heavy flamer and hellfire rounds on a vet squad to whittle down his troop potential. I killed all but 8 and the other two fell back right into my sternies. Ok, wiped out 1 vet squad. My speeder explodes the company command chimera 6". A couple vets die from a nearby squad and the company command is whittled down a bit. The explosion kills my my heavy flamer sternie.. mother*BEEP!* Guess what I forgot this round? The DEATHWIND on my drop pod... dangit-dagnabbit-darnit-consarnit. In my defense I forgot my pod at my apartment at school and didn't have it at home. I should have used a soda can or something more suitably flamboyant.

 

3rd turn his manticore finally blows the warp out of my sergeant and scatters away from my libby. Mixed feelings(rage, sickness, depression, maybe joy?), but my libby yet lives. He unloads some melta and plasma into my sternguard and all but 1 die. His russ doesn't have a clear shot at anything so my buddy tank shocks my sternie, who fails morale and falls the heck back luckily still on the board. This is what I'm seeing at this point and I keep thinking I'm Sanguinius for some reason. I have a strange urge to murder the enemies of mankind whilst wading into literal suicide. Please paint my armor black and tell my brothers "AAAAAH!".

 

My 3rd turn the delayed landspeeder deepstrikes and shoves some superheated death up that russ's farthole. It explodes 5" but doesn't really do much. My remaining sternie slags a chimera and it explodes 6", killing a few fore from the command squad. I launch the deathwind at his plasmavet squad and kill all but 2. Boom, son. The libby moved towards the nearest contestable objective, but at this point he has 2 troop choices remaining.

 

4th turn he kills my last sternie and grabs 1 objective in a chimera. My libby is too far away to slap them silly, unfortunately, and is the only guy left standing other than the drop pod. Game ends. As I look at his side of the table, all I see are craters, craters, and more craters. My side? Dead RAS. Losing first turn and essentially 50% of my army before I could even touch my enemy's army really REALLY hurt. This was my first time facing a manticore and was legitly surprised when he said the damn thing is d3 str10 ordnance. Frak...

 

"Knowing is half the battle". Damnatio tuum, GI Joe.

 

What I have learned:

-MORALE OF THE STORY: Melta is awesome, especially multimelta. An explodes result happens 50% of the time which is great against IG cardboard armor. Completely wrecking a vehicle happens 66.6% of the time. Penetrating a vehicle is easy when in half distance. Rerolls is icing on the cake! Having 2 multimeltas is almost guaranteed death to armor. Had a large chunk of my army not died so early I would have won easily.

-IG guns prove, time and time again, RIDICULOUSLY SCARY. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I think this game(like the more recent losses vs his IG so far :lol: ) was just exceedingly unlucky on my part.

-Perhaps keeping 1 RAS squad in reserve might be a great choice this particular list. Honestly, I expected him only getting 1 turn of shooting before my reserves came in because I would have gone first... but...

-Assuming 1st turn was mine was a grievous error. I should place my units INSIDE terrain on deployment against ordnance, not behind it.

-Better terrain? I don't know any references to what terrain should be like. We need to go to a Games Workshop and ask someone politely to step us through a game. I think we might be doing some things wrong as well so having a reference would help. I wish I knew a BA player I could personally, step by step, learn from. :(

-Deep breaths during bad games. I've noticed a pattern against IG that the early game usually goes really badly for me and sometimes it gets to my head. Forgetting the deathwind shot was unacceptable. I might have been able to wipe out another vet squad, leaving my libby to fly to the closest objective to the other squad, perhaps extend the game a turn, and tie it 0:0. I also should have accounted for bad scattering that delayed my landspeeder. I might have been able to keep 1 alive for 1 turn due to target saturation.

-Even with all the bad luck I feel like I should have done better. Failure is unacceptable, but as always I learn a lot from it.

 

Next time I will field my new stormraven! I got a good price for a used one and I'm soaking it in Simple Green now to strip the paint. Once I slap some dark blue on there (Night Angels) I'll put something special inside it, not sure exactly what yet. My buddy promises to field 2 hydras, though. I promise to table him. I'll be asking for help when the time comes.

 

I hope you enjoyed my suffering :lol:

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I forgot to take my Red Thirst rolls. Forgetception.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I spread them out as best I could worrying (justifyably imo) about the manticore.......He stole the initiative, rolled a 5 for his manticore getting 3 str10 ordinance large blasts on my squad without the libby... mind you they ALL hit perfectly with no scatter! All but my gloriously heroic sergeant are wounded and die... ....He rolls a 5 again for the manticore targeting my libby RAS and all but 1 scatter away(which hits my sergeant FRAKIN LAME)! Thank God, the freakin' Emperor, and Sanguinius for a damn good shield of Sangy roll. My libby, two RAS, and the sergeant are all that stands (gloriously?). Speeder fails its jinx rolls and 'splodes. Free fireworks right? Hah, no...

 

My friend, you've been had and you need to go back to your friend and let him know he's cheaty-face.

 

Manticore's ordinance (Storm Eagle Rocket) is Strength 10 AP4..... you can take 3+ armor saves against it.

[Zedrenael]

Another thing is that the Drop Pod comes in on the first turn.

[Brother_Angelus]

And turn 4 he claimed an objective with a chimera or a unit in a chimera, either way, that was also wrong.

[Xenith]

Also, iirc, deathwinds cannot shoot on the turn that they come down as they are not fast, and count as moving 12" (unless that has changed in 6th).

 

Also, *are* the manticore rockets large blast? I'd thought they were small.

 

"I should place my units INSIDE terrain on deployment against ordnance, not behind it."

Only for Ordnance barrage you still get your cover save if you are behind cover when regular ordnance shoots you.

 

Better terrain? I don't know any references to what terrain should be like

There are very detailed rules for setting up terrain in the 6th ed rulebook. IIRC, D3 pieces of 6"x6" terrain per 2'x2' board section, a mix of area, ruin, los blocking and non los blocking terrain.

 

my landspeeder. I might have been able to keep 1 alive for 1 turn due to target saturation.

In the scouring, your landspeeders were the most important models on the boards. Protect them better. Were you taking your jink saves?

 

"Knowing is half the battle"

Scientia Potentia Est ^_^

[Zynk Kaladin]

I failed to mention we were pressed for time on this game, so we limited our digging for rules. Also, as you have probably noticed, we suck at remembering all the rules.

 

My friend, you've been had and you need to go back to your friend and let him know he's cheaty-face.

 

Manticore's ordinance (Storm Eagle Rocket) is Strength 10 AP4..... you can take 3+ armor saves against it.

 

I knew it... how dare he cheat me and thus cheat Sanguinius!

 

We reviewed the rulebook on that one during the game. I'm re-reading it now and I don't know what I was thinking at the time. "Unsaved wound" should have been obvious. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Another thing is that the Drop Pod comes in on the first turn.

 

I remember reading this rule a while ago, but I couldn't find it at the time to prove it. Today I was derpin' around the codex and I found it. I feel like such a tool... lol

 

And turn 4 he claimed an objective with a chimera or a unit in a chimera, either way, that was also wrong.

 

Wait... troop choices in transports can't claim objectives? Heh, sweet.

 

Also, iirc, deathwinds cannot shoot on the turn that they come down as they are not fast, and count as moving 12" (unless that has changed in 6th).

 

Also, *are* the manticore rockets large blast? I'd thought they were small.

 

Hmm, doesn't look like they are fast. I'll have to review the rules on this on. At this point because there's so many rules I forget I may make a reference summary for every unit I have.

 

Manticores have Storm eagle rockets: str10, ap4, Ordnance D3, Barrage, Large Blast.

 

Only for Ordnance barrage you still get your cover save if you are behind cover when regular ordnance shoots you.

 

Yup. I'm so used to playing against his russes that an actual artillery unit really threw me off. Lessons learned, though quite honestly I would have gotten armor saves anyway in this case.

 

There are very detailed rules for setting up terrain in the 6th ed rulebook. IIRC, D3 pieces of 6"x6" terrain per 2'x2' board section, a mix of area, ruin, los blocking and non los blocking terrain.

 

I'm definitely going to review that in detail. Thanks!

 

In the scouring, your landspeeders were the most important models on the boards. Protect them better. Were you taking your jink saves?

 

Yes, but because I lost half my army early I got aggressive with the deep strikes. Do landspeeders get jinx from deep striking?

 

Scientia Potentia Est ^_^

 

Indeed. But I am a very forgetful person when it comes to the warhammer rules, which is why I'm slowly making a reference/summary of the rules concerning BA things. I find it ironic that I forgot to take nightfighting rolls when my chapter is called the Night Angels. I really hate myself at the moment ;)

[Brother_Angelus]

And turn 4 he claimed an objective with a chimera or a unit in a chimera, either way, that was also wrong.

 

Wait... troop choices in transports can't claim objectives? Heh, sweet.

Yeh, it used to count, but they took it out in 6th. I think to avoid people (read; IG players) treating transports like mobile pillboxes (my brother plays IG, so i'm glad it was removed too).

[Zynk Kaladin]

Yeh, it used to count, but they took it out in 6th. I think to avoid people (read; IG players) treating transports like mobile pillboxes (my brother plays IG, so i'm glad it was removed too).

 

Ah, ok great to know. I have gotten quite good at slagging their mobile pillboxes anyway. ;)

 

On of his chimeras is names Shrapnel. It explodes every game, such is my will.

[Xenith]

In the scouring, your landspeeders were the most important models on the boards. Protect them better. Were you taking your jink saves?

 

Yes, but because I lost half my army early I got aggressive with the deep strikes. Do landspeeders get jinx from deep striking?

Check the DS rules, if it says 'models that DS count as moving', or anything to that effect, you get your jink save :D

[Morticon]

Jink*

 

And yes, landspeeders count as moving at cruising speed, so get it on the DS.

[fivepointedstar]

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I forgot to take my Red Thirst rolls. Forgetception.

You and me both. Luckily my buddy reminds me, or I'd surely forget.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Cheated yourself with the drop pod...should have come in on turn 1, as people have said. Also, you don't need to be glad that it scattered from one gap into another - Inertial Guidance System means that if it would land on a unit, you reduce the scatter by the minimum distance necessary to avoid said unit. All you need to do is dodge the table edges and you're sorted. I wouldn't take this game too hard anyway, as seizing the initiative changes the course of a game very drastically (arguably the most game-changing single dice possible, other than that final failed armour save that wins/loses you the game). I'll be interested in your other reports, as my BA seem to struggle with mech guard (being the army that have handed my AS my one and only tournament loss with them), and there aren't any guard players near me to practice against.

[spartan II]

And turn 4 he claimed an objective with a chimera or a unit in a chimera, either way, that was also wrong.

 

Wait... troop choices in transports can't claim objectives? Heh, sweet.

Yeh, it used to count, but they took it out in 6th. I think to avoid people (read; IG players) treating transports like mobile pillboxes (my brother plays IG, so i'm glad it was removed too).

 

 

im an ig footslogger player and just want to clarify some stuff isn't thisthe whole idea behind BA razorspam as well

please enlighten me

[Brother_Angelus]

Not really. Razors don't have firepoints, so sitting a unit in there just to claim a point takes them out of the game. IG being able to pick 3 special weapons on vet squads and fire them (plus some las) out of the chimera's fire points is an entirely different kettle of fish. I'm not slagging off the tactic, if my troops went to war in cardboard armour and needed to move to objectives i'd probably cram them into transports too... or use the ally rules to get units which can survive a strong breeze.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I think with razorspam nowadays, you're paying for a 5 man scoring unit and a reduced-cost support weapon platform. Dump the boys into an objective on the last/potentially last turn, and spend the game hovering around with your mobile gun trying to kill things. Wolves do it better, though, with grey hunters being shooty and combat-y at the same time.

[spartan II]

Not really. Razors don't have firepoints, so sitting a unit in there just to claim a point takes them out of the game. IG being able to pick 3 special weapons on vet squads and fire them (plus some las) out of the chimera's fire points is an entirely different kettle of fish. I'm not slagging off the tactic, if my troops went to war in cardboard armour and needed to move to objectives i'd probably cram them into transports too... or use the ally rules to get units which can survive a strong breeze.

 

 

why cram them in transports if yuo can take 50 of them in a unit and give them cover saves ?

[Brother_Angelus]

Because sometimes objectives aren't in your deployment zone?

[Zynk Kaladin]

Not really. Razors don't have firepoints, so sitting a unit in there just to claim a point takes them out of the game. IG being able to pick 3 special weapons on vet squads and fire them (plus some las) out of the chimera's fire points is an entirely different kettle of fish. I'm not slagging off the tactic, if my troops went to war in cardboard armour and needed to move to objectives i'd probably cram them into transports too... or use the ally rules to get units which can survive a strong breeze.

 

This has always been an interesting challenge, especially when IG vets get 3 bs4 meltaguns or plasmaguns in a chimera. This is why I like melta so much in this edition because making a chimera explode and harming the inside is so much easier now.

[Sir Blayse]

Also, since cover now comes from the models coverage and not the unit, then the block of 50 go down much easier. You can even focus fire into just the ones who either have no cover or up to a maximum save value. That way you don't have to worry about your opponent getting to stick them all on guys with a 3+ cover save.