Henchmen: How To Be Doctor Evil

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So, we talk a lot about Henchmen, and Inquisitors, and Coteaz...but we never really consolidate stuff into a single thread on them. Usually its quite specific, like 'I want a close-combat warband with this specific army already' or 'shooty warband with X'

 

I believe its necessary to figure out how a warband should be done (and how to base an army around it, or add to a Knight army appropriately), because Matt was ordered to give rules to all the old models (and the ones he didn't like, well yeah, guess who got overpriced and underpowered :P ). So, there is the potential to make them as expensive as a Marine squad but pathetically bad by comparison. Squad Redshirt (which I'll post later) demonstrates my point.

 

So, lets get the big honcho out of the way first;

 

 

Coteaz, Lord of Space and Time:

 

So first thing is he's about the same price as a Mastery 1 Xenos Inquisitor with a conversion beamer, or Mastery 1 Malleus TDA+hammer+psycannon, or whatever awful Hereticus build you can conjure up for similar points. What are you getting by comparison? Well, he has a nemesis hammer and artificer plate (and 'Hammerhand'), so he can fit in with a close-combat warband fine. However, he also has Mastery 2 and access to Divination (and Divination is a discipline that primarily is concerned with buffing shooting). So, he can equally fit in with a shooty warband. Oh, and he also has an eagle to peck people's eyes out.

 

With regards to psychic Disciplines (I know this seems obvious, but this is a newcomer guide), Divination is the standout. Especially on a Mastery 2 psyker, as Divination only has Warp Charge 1 powers to roll for (which means Coteaz is always casting two powers). Roll for them, then swap the least impressive power for the Primaris, 'Prescience'. You always want to swap out, even if he's with a close-combat warband, as re-rolls > Hammerhand, and you hardly ever use Sanctuary or Dark Excommunication anyway.

 

Finally, he has a few other abilities.

Firstly, although it seems obvious, he's an Inquisitor, which means he prevents Mind-Lock. (Matt derped out with Tech-Marines, perversely they are better in close-combat warbands, see below). So, plasma cannon servitors fit in nicely with him, especially with the re-rolls from 'Prescience' (as it lets them re-roll 'Gets Hot' 1's, and also re-roll scatter when you miss). You don't want servitors without an Inquisitor to hold their hand, as Mind-Lock affects the entire unit (yay, poor wording, go GW proofreaders!).

Secondly, he has 'I've Been Expecting You'. This is a subtler ability, as with 50% Reserve maximum largely kills all-Reserve lists now (the only ones who can still do it are drop pod armies and Daemons). That said, Outflankers are a problem, and Deepstrike is far more forgiving now (as is Dangerous Terrain). Remember, this ability is not Overwatch, so you can do both (assuming they attempt to charge you in their next turn).

 

 

Shooty Warbands:

 

These guys are going to form your backbone for a Henchmen army, and even when combining with Knights, they're still a solid Troops choice and actually shoot more efficiently than Knights (the disparity is of course that Knights will steamroller warbands in combat, being Marines). The key to building a dakka warband is to bring things Knights can't. These are;

 

25" range or further shooting (of any kind, but anti-tank would be preferable)

AP2 (sorely lacking for Knights, they are highly reliant on charges to get rid of things like TDA, and rely on Rends with psycannons to deal with heavier armour)

Cheap transports (Knights all have storm bolters at least, so they lose firepower going inside a Rhino, plus we pay the 5pt tax for 'Fortitude')

 

The first point of call are Jokaero. Yes, the monkeys. Now, they nearly Terminator price each, so we can't bring too many, but we want enough to ensure decent damage output and of course a good roll on their customisation table. Hence, we'll take two. Under 'Prescience', thats usually two lascannon hits, which isn't bad for the investment (a Razorback costs a bit more and can only ever generate 1 lascannon hit).

The next thing to look at is the special weapon Acolytes. They are identical to IG Veterans, except they are only BS3 and have no Doctrines. Flamers are redundant, the Jokaero are already providing heavy flamers, and you don't want to be in BBQ range usually anyway. Melta suffers from BS3, low shot output and again suicide range. Plasma is a solid choice in 6th, lower cover and AP2 being relevant against vehicles, plus it can rapid-fire both by moving in and under Overwatch ('IBEY' with Coteaz, etc). Being rapid-fire, you can also fire at 24" now on the move. Terminators are going to be far more common now with the power weapon nerf (and Allies), so meta-game wise its good too.

Okay, so we have our monkeys for long range, plasma Acolytes for dakka...hmmm, we still need a transport though, they're just Guardsmen after all. What transport is ideal for units with multiple specialist weapons...Chimera! Plus, it brings a pair of anti-infantry guns with 36" range, and AV12 front.

 

Now, at this point, we've already clocked up the cost of a bare-bones Tactical squad. It's perfectly fine to leave them at 5-strong in a Chimera, but you may like bulking them out (to get that extra mileage from a Rending buff on Jokaero customisation, or from 'Prescience', or just to soak wounds when they're de-meched etc). If you choose to bulk out the unit, I'd take storm bolter Acolytes. You won't have enough spaces left in the Chimera (or indeed the squad cap of 12) to take just bolter dudes.

Another thing to consider when bulking out the unit (even with bare-bones Acolytes for ablative wounds), is the Inquisitor to accompany them. See, even though they won't Mind-Lock, shooty Henchmen still really like 'Prescience' on them, and especially like higher Leadership and a character for challenges. Even better is an Inquisitor who can fight well and contribute some shooting. The basic 55pt Prescience Inquisitor is nice, but if you double the points, you get a monster of a character. TDA Malleus Inquisitor with hammer+psycannon not only shoots harder than the 6-7 storm bolter Henchmen he costs (in terms of price difference from the basic Inquisitor), he brings a hammer and 2+ armour as well (and still brings the same 'Presicence' buff as the cheaper version). He's usually more at home with Terminator Knights or Paladins, but in a shooty warband, he can contribute his psycannon and high Leadership, and when you get charged can make it a painful prospect for many opponents. Once he slays the enemy Sarge, Marines hate having a 3-wound Terminator breaking their armour open hidden inside a dirt-cheap pseudo-Guard squad.

 

 

Hacky Warbands:

 

The counterpoint to the shooty warband, its harder to make these work without significant investment nowadays. A Stormraven is mandatory (due to the rules for disembarking from anything not equipped with an Assault Ramp), and a Tech-Marine takes the unit from 'annoying' to 'oh god where did my backfield go'. As a result, 1-2 is pretty much all you can manage, and in Knight lists its just easier to take Paladins with Terminator Inquisitors (still a hefty investment, but they shoot, stick around longer, and don't need or want a Raven).

 

Death-Cult Assassins have taken a hit (random charge range means you want to hop out as close as possible, so Raven is extremely important), but they're still lethal and efficient. The key thing to remember is they have two power weapons. Undefined, which means, you can take whatever variant you can model. With the additional caveat that only Specialist weapons need a twin for the +1A for two weapons, taking two different types of power weapons is ideal. With this in mind, power sword and power axe are the obvious choices. One lets you go at your insane I6, the other lets you kill Terminators as they cut you up with powerfists. Speaking of Terminators, going all DCA is problematic, as you really only get 1 round of combat in before everyone dies (5+ invul is not terribly reliable).

So, we need some ablative wounds. However, we need to balance out the hitting power of the unit with staying power. Crusaders fit perfectly into this role, as they still contribute their power axe (they only get 1A at lower I3 anyway, so you wanna hit hard) and their storm shield is hilarious for jamming up Terminators. 5 DCA with 5 Crusaders provides a nice balance between offence and defence, and crucially gives you an ablative barrier of 5 3++ models to chew through before you have to allocate hits on the DCA (just place the Crusaders in front when you deploy).

 

Now, as I mentioned before, the unit is good but still not amazingly so (its about Tac Marine cost, but has zero shooting and is useless until it hits melee). A Terminator Inquisitor could help out here (he brings a psycannon along too), but re-rolls to hit aren't really the issue (you have a lot of attacks at WS5, plus a smattering at WS4), its more getting wounds inflicted that is a problem (4+ against T4). A Tech-Marine however brings his huge bag of grenades (up to six, although you only want five of them), a flamer and a plasma pistol, and finally he's perfect for challenging enemy characters. 2+ invul with a stave makes it pretty hard to kill him, whilst he's hitting back with an AP3 force weapon and his I1 servo-arm hits. He also brings 'Hammerhand', which stacks with his rad grenades.

 

Add on the Raven, and that is your unit. It clocks in at more than a Paladin+TDA Inquisitor combo, but it can do different things (also, people tend to vomit blood when you explain what psychostroke grenades do) and is very mobile.

 

 

MSU Razors:

 

6th edition allowing double Force Org at 2k is what really makes this work. Instead of competing with the other warband builds, you instead get all the space you could want in the second detachment. MSU Chimeras don't work, as you're paying a premium for fire points you're not using.

 

With regards to running Razorbacks, some people think the basic twin-heavy bolter Razor with psybolts is good. Its really not, a Chimera is functionally better, and anti-infantry is not really what you want MSU Razors for (Knights already have plenty of it, normal warbands have Chimeras spitting out anti-infantry dakka).

 

That leaves two others. The twin-assault cannon+psybolts Razorback is interesting, as it can do anti-tank to some extent and still chews up infantry. However, Rends are unreliable, and its aggressive focus shortens its already short lifespan. Not saying its a bad platform, but you shouldn't take a whole heap of them, a couple of outriders can work though (ie blocking Line of Sight to side Chimera AV10, stalling assaults etc).

 

The last one is the lascannon+twin plasma gun Razor. This combines several good points; it can hit things Turn 1 with the lascannon (meaning you don't have to rush into the mid-field, which is what Knights and other Henchmen do already) and it brings several AP2 shots (and compares favourably to Jokaero for lascannon output). Thus, even if you get immobilised Turn 1, it can probably still shoot something all game until destroyed. It also clocks in at 5pts cheaper than the twin-assault cannon+psybolt Razorback, and point savings are always welcome.

 

 

TL;DR

 

So, as a summary, here is roughly what you should aim for when building your Henchmen warbands;

 

(with Coteaz only) 3 x plasma cannon servitors, 2 x Jokaero, Chimera w/multi-laser+heavy bolter

(185 points)

 

3 x Acolytes w/plasma guns, 2 x Jokaero, Chimera w/multi-laser+heavy bolter, (optional extra) +5 x Acolytes w/storm bolters

(167/207 points)

 

5 x Death-Cult w/power sword+power axe, 5 x Crusaders w/power axe+storm shield, +Tech-Marine w/stave, rad+psychostroke grenades, +Raven w/twin melta, twin lascannon (495 points)

 

(At 2k for filling out the other Force Org) 3 x Acolytes, Razorback w/lascannon+twin plasma gun

(92 points)

 

(Optional outriders for your Chimeras) 3 x Acolytes, Razorback w/twin assault cannon, psybolts

(97 points)

 

Only the first and second builds really apply to Knights (Paladins > close-combat warband, PsyDreads > Razorspam), and even then you should plan carefully how many you want. Remember, Henchmen are great value, but they cost points and Troops slots to field, so you want to strike a good balance.

 

In an actual Henchmen army, you should aim for a shooty warband per Inquisitor (including Coteaz, the plasma cannon retinue is optional), 1-2 close-combat warband+Tech-Marine+Raven, then fill out any leftover points with cheap Razorbacks (assault cannon outrider or las/plas sniper, either works).

 

 

But Wait, What About The Other Guys?

 

(cricket chirps)....they're really bad. Like, Chaos Spawn, Pyrovore bad. Oh hell, fine, if you insist.

 

Arco-Flagellant: Compared to Death-Cult, +1 Strength, +1 Attack...lower Initiative, no power weapons...same price. Nope, count-as Death-Cult if you love the model that much

Banisher: Re-roll invul for Daemons, k, well at least he comes with an evisc...wait, I have to double his price to get the giant chainsword? Yeah no

Daemonhost: T4, I guess thats cool....oh a table to roll on that only benefits him, and has Shooting powers I don't want in melee (vice versa)? Heh no

Mystic: Living teleport homer...pass

Psyker: Hey, they're sorta like IG Battle Psykers, so maybe...what, no, its supposed to be lose D3 dudes on a Peril, not the ENTIRE UNIT. Hurr durr...

 

Now, by all means, model your army however you wish (for example, Arco-Flagellants counting as DCA etc), but don't get sucked into taking terrible rules along with them. There is no cogent reason to not take stuff that works, or to take terrible units. This isn't DisplayShelfHammer, its Warhammer. I'd just like to get this little blurb in before ten posts later, someone is making the asinine 'I play for fun, not to win' arguments about different Henchmen units. If you play without caring about how or why your army works under the rules (not aesthetics, or playstyle, or any other factors which can and do influence our hobby), I have this gem for you to try out. I present, the Worst Henchmen Warband Ever! For short-hand, I'm calling them Squad Redshirt;

 

3 x Acolytes w/two storm shields, power armour, 9 x Servitors

(252 points)

 

My current record for 'shortest lifespan' with them is two phases. Got 'Seized' by a Guard player, battlecannon wiped all but two Acolytes (he was really scared the servo-arms would hurt him in close-combat), then they died to a single Chimera. Haven't beaten it yet, closest I've gotten is Turn 2. Their single worst performance was against a mob of Boyz, I won combat when the Nob got kicked to death and his powerklaw just couldn't kill the remaining Acolyte (Servitors killed a disturbing amount of Boyz before succumbing, then again he did charge through terrain).

 

 

A Note On Planet Of The Apes:

 

The 2.5k troll list which infrequently gets posted, in 6th edition is even more amusing with 'Prescience' and extra cheap Inquisitors in the second Force Org chart. At worst, its 68 monkeys and Coteaz just chilling in your DZ, spamming lascannon all day (5 units of 12, one unit of 8, attach Coteaz wherever). The 6th edition refinement is below;

 

Primary:

 

HQ:

 

Coteaz

(100 points)

 

Inquisitor w/force axe+bolt pistol, Divination

(55 points)

 

Troops:

 

(2) 12 x Jokaero

(420 points each)

 

Secondary:

 

HQ:

 

(2) Inquisitor w/force axe+bolt pistol, Divination

(55 points each)

 

Troops:

 

(2) 12 x Jokaero

(420 points each)

 

Slightly under 2k, add whatever to make up to 2.5k (maybe Aegis defense lines, Allies etc?)

 

I've taken the original one out for a spin (had to borrow a mates Orks to count as, didn't have enough infantry models :lol: ), its amusing for 1-2 shooting phases, but once they hit combat it folds that exact turn. Still haven't tried the 6th edition version above, but I'm working on it.

 

 

So, that's my Henchmen summary. Feel free to critique, add to it, bring in meta-game considerations (I'm really just going on the units themselves and general 6th edition trends, rather than specific race matchups).

[Gentlemanloser]

Nice post!

 

With regards to running Razorbacks, some people think the basic twin-heavy bolter Razor with psybolts is good. Its really not, a Chimera is functionally better, and anti-infantry is not really what you want MSU Razors for (Knights already have plenty of it, normal warbands have Chimeras spitting out anti-infantry dakka).

 

I's agree with this if we were only running 'normal' S5 Heavy Bolters. But S6, that's something different. ;)

 

It's like Shuriken Wave Serpents, but half the cost. ;)

 

S6 kills infantry and light transports (and flyers!) with ease. And only really starts to lose potency versus Dreads, Ravens and LR/Mono's (go for side armour hits on Preds/Russes).

 

Chimera's still cost more, and can't take S6 Heavy Bolters. Sure you can have a Heavy Bolter with a Multi Lazer, but then you've not really got a Twin Linked S6 weapon. The loss of Fortitude (which was a massive reason Razors were better than Chimera's as gun platforms in 5th) isn't such a big deal now. But it does suck to get you gun tank stunned. ;)

 

That leaves two others. The twin-assault cannon+psybolts Razorback is interesting, as it can do anti-tank to some extent and still chews up infantry. However, Rends are unreliable, and its aggressive focus shortens its already short lifespan. Not saying its a bad platform, but you shouldn't take a whole heap of them, a couple of outriders can work though (ie blocking Line of Sight to side Chimera AV10, stalling assaults etc).

 

They are another Twin Linked, relentless, Psycannon. Which is awesome.

 

Sure, you could nearly get two S6 HB 'backs for the cost of the Psycannon one.

 

So you have to ask yourself, is the extra shot, +1S and Rending worth it?

 

For short-hand, I'm calling them Squad Redshirt

 

ROFL!

 

A Note On Planet Of The Apes:

 

Surley it would be worth breaking down some of those units into smaller amounts? Keep two massive ones for Divination, then smaller ones for greater target potentials and customization rerolls?

 

Maybe something like;

 

HQ: Coteaz (100)

HQ: Inq, Psyker (55)

HQ: Inq, Psyker (55)

HQ: Inq, Psyker (55)

 

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

 

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

 

Total: 2,505

 

64 Jokers. ;)

 

Edit: Doh, missed out on extra Divinitaiton fun! Redone list above. Meh, 5 points over. Drop a single Joker? Maybe even change the large 12 Joker units into 9 Jokers with 3 Servitors?

[RedemptionNL]

Nice writeup! A couple of notes:

 

Inquisitors cannot take Force Axes (or Force Staves), as they specifically upgrade to Force Swords, not Force Weapons. The Ordo Malleus Inquisitor can take the Daemon Hammer though of course.

 

I somewhat disagree on a couple of your assessments:

 

For 60 points you have a small squad of Psykers that can throw out a 36\" S8 AP1 Large Blast. While these squads shouldn't be used to capture important objectives or be relied on, it can be a lot of fun if you have like 100-200 points to spare and some empty Troops slots to throw a couple of these squads in. They are also excellent Fortification holders if you add a couple of Warrior Acolytes to the squad. Put a squad inside a Bastion, and while 1 Psyker throws out the large pie plate out of one of the fire points, the other psykers can man the automated weapons. In case the Mystics blow up when you Perils, you still have the Acolytes left to keep the Bastion manned.

 

As for the transport of your DCA/Crusader squad, consider a Land Raider. With a Stormraven you can assault Turn 3 at the earliest (Must be held in reserve on turn 1, Zoom onto the board on turn 2, switch to hover mode in turn 3 and unload), in which a Land Raider could get pretty much anywhere on the board. I either use a Phobos pattern Land Raider to hold the squad in my backfield as a counter-assault unit, or a Redeemer pattern to deliver the squad into enemy lines. The Frag Assault Launchers of the Redeemer also mean they can assault things like Long Fangs in cover and still strike at Initiative.

 

And while Mystics probably aren't very valuable in an all henchmen list, they're pretty handy if you have a mixed force with a couple of Deep Striking units (Strike Knights, Interceptors, Terminators, Paladins, Dreadknights and/or Stormravens) or you want to use a Librarian with the Summoning. One of my favourite units is a mixed squad of DCAs & Crusaders with a Mystic in a Land Raider Redeemer, where you can safely Deep Strike within 6\" of the Land Raider's massive hull. After the mystic has served its purposes as a beacon, just march him in front as an ablative wound so you don't waste a Crusader on a stray Overwatch hit.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Nice post!

 

Thanks man :P

 

 

I's agree with this if we were only running 'normal' S5 Heavy Bolters. But S6, that's something different.

 

It's like Shuriken Wave Serpents, but half the cost.

 

S6 kills infantry and light transports (and flyers!) with ease. And only really starts to lose potency versus Dreads, Ravens and LR/Mono's (go for side armour hits on Preds/Russes).

 

Chimera's still cost more, and can't take S6 Heavy Bolters. Sure you can have a Heavy Bolter with a Multi Lazer, but then you've not really got a Twin Linked S6 weapon. The loss of Fortitude (which was a massive reason Razors were better than Chimera's as gun platforms in 5th) isn't such a big deal now. But it does suck to get you gun tank stunned.

 

Nah man, Flyers will get through S6 okay usually (unless they're AV10), especially given that even with re-rolls you'll be lucky getting even one hit. AV12 is pretty common in 40k, and even against AV11 S6 is going to fail a fair bit (it is a 5+ to glance).

Chimeras do cost more, but they have higher total damage output (6 shots versus the maximum of 3 for the Razor), and of course you pay the added points for its higher AV12 front and firepoints (not to mention larger transport capacity). 'Fortitude' isn't too important anymore, if they glance you 3 times you're dead either way.

 

My contention with BolterRazors is they supply anti-infantry, but thats not what Knights or Henchmen need (anti-infantry they do already just fine, even suppression of light AV etc). Its longer range, AP2 and cheaper platforms that appeal to our armies. That said, they are half the price of a LasPlas Razor or a PsyRazor...but you're going to max out at 12 Troops anyway. So, the extra BolterBacks you get by saving those points might not even be available.

 

They are another Twin Linked, relentless, Psycannon. Which is awesome.

 

Sure, you could nearly get two S6 HB 'backs for the cost of the Psycannon one.

 

So you have to ask yourself, is the extra shot, +1S and Rending worth it?

 

Don't forget the range reduction ;) I know my opponents never do. TBH, yes, we all know how awesome psycannons are meta-game wise. The real comparison is the LasPlas Razor, which is similar points. LasPlas comes out ahead IMO because its always AP2, it has two guns to blow off, and it can contribute from Turn 1. Of course, it in turn is eclipsed by Jokaero. I think though, for an outrider that wants to get in close, its a good little gunboat.

 

Surley it would be worth breaking down some of those units into smaller amounts? Keep two massive ones for Divination, then smaller ones for greater target potentials and customization rerolls?

 

Maybe something like;

 

HQ: Coteaz (100)

HQ: Inq, Psyker (55)

HQ: Inq, Psyker (55)

HQ: Inq, Psyker (55)

 

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

Troop: Joker x12 (420)

 

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

Troop: Joker x4 (140)

 

Total: 2,505

 

64 Jokers.

 

Edit: Doh, missed out on extra Divinitaiton fun! Redone list above. Meh, 5 points over. Drop a single Joker? Maybe even change the large 12 Joker units into 9 Jokers with 3 Servitors?

 

Yeah, take some plasma cannon servitors, that should cut down the pesky 5pt margin. TBH I didn't really think about maximising unit count, I just maxed out the warband size until I hit points ;) :D . Also, its a troll list, so I don't really play properly with it anyway. I just sit there and laugh as re-rolled lascannons blow everything up.

 

Inquisitors cannot take Force Axes (or Force Staves), as they specifically upgrade to Force Swords, not Force Weapons. The Ordo Malleus Inquisitor can take the Daemon Hammer though of course.

 

:wacko: Lame, swear I read different in the FAQ...ah well, its not like they're fighting TDA all that often anyway (or that I care if they do hit combat, they wear carapace armour).

 

For 60 points you have a small squad of Psykers that can throw out a 36\" S8 AP1 Large Blast. While these squads shouldn't be used to capture important objectives or be relied on, it can be a lot of fun if you have like 100-200 points to spare and some empty Troops slots to throw a couple of these squads in. They are also excellent Fortification holders if you add a couple of Warrior Acolytes to the squad. Put a squad inside a Bastion, and while 1 Psyker throws out the large pie plate out of one of the fire points, the other psykers can man the automated weapons. In case the Mystics blow up when you Perils, you still have the Acolytes left to keep the Bastion manned.

 

Hmmmm...but then I'm buying the Bastion, and hoping no one brings Runes of FaceMelt and/or my dice don't shank me at a crucial moment. I dunno, you'd have to take the Fortifications out for a go. Thus far I've only used Aegis lines (already had the kit to get PsyDread autocannon bitz). If they work in that context, by all means, I would see a point to taking them. But I just think in a 'normal' list, inside a Chimera, I'd rather just have normal Henchmen who don't explode using their signature move. (Well, explode all that often, they are packing plasma).

 

As for the transport of your DCA/Crusader squad, consider a Land Raider. With a Stormraven you can assault Turn 3 at the earliest (Must be held in reserve on turn 1, Zoom onto the board on turn 2, switch to hover mode in turn 3 and unload), in which a Land Raider could get pretty much anywhere on the board. I either use a Phobos pattern Land Raider to hold the squad in my backfield as a counter-assault unit, or a Redeemer pattern to deliver the squad into enemy lines. The Frag Assault Launchers of the Redeemer also mean they can assault things like Long Fangs in cover and still strike at Initiative.

 

I'm ok with Turn 3 assaults, pretty much coincides with when I've reached the mid-field anyway.

My issue with Landraiders is two-fold. Firstly, everyone and their mother meta-games for them (so gauss, lance weapons, melta etc is everywhere). Secondly, 4HP sounds like a lot but in practise, glancing hits now end it early. I do have a soft spot for the Redeemer though, dem Flamestorms man....

Raven comes in cheaper, has better guns (twin multi and twin las is yet more anti-tank for us, on a very mobile platform), carries same number of dudes, and has Flyer defenses (so Jink, only hit on 6's by non-Skyfire, insane speed etc). Instead of the situation with the Landraider, where I have to to move it forwards and yet it can be shot from Turn 1 onwards, Raven comes in when our armies are already tangling up in eachother. He then gets one Shooting phase to down it (AV12, Fortitude, Flyer...hmmm), and if it lives I basically vaporise a squad of his at will.

 

And while Mystics probably aren't very valuable in an all henchmen list, they're pretty handy if you have a mixed force with a couple of Deep Striking units (Strike Knights, Interceptors, Terminators, Paladins, Dreadknights and/or Stormravens) or you want to use a Librarian with the Summoning. One of my favourite units is a mixed squad of DCAs & Crusaders with a Mystic in a Land Raider Redeemer, where you can safely Deep Strike within 6\" of the Land Raider's massive hull. After the mystic has served its purposes as a beacon, just march him in front as an ablative wound so you don't waste a Crusader on a stray Overwatch hit.

 

Mystics do have their place, my issue is they require a warband, yet most Henchmen (except close-combat ones) don't want to be anywhere near the enemy DZ. I guess putting one in with the DCA+Crusaders works. I just don't Deepstrike much, I find it dripfeeds my forces to the enemy, whereas having them all deployed normally dilutes enemy fire more and forces hard choices of him in terms of counter-deployment and movement (ie don't get caught by my Terminator blob).

 

 

Thanks for the comments guys, keep it coming

[Inquisitor Fox]

Overall fairly decent analysis (harsh, but fair) :D A few points I noticed or would do differently myself. First, you don't mention the shooting Inquisitorial Servitors in your shooting warband section at all. While they are limited to only really being effective in a warband holding an Inquisitor, the fact you can have a dirt cheap multi-melta or relatively dirt cheap plasma cannon does bear actual mention, especially when combined with say, Jokaero AND plasma gun warriors. That's a unit of "melt your face" if I ever saw one.

 

Also, while as a general rule I do agree that a unit of DCA's is overall more effective than a unit of Arco-flagellants, two points do need to be raised. First, if you do not want to convert and are going off of stock GW models, as modeled the unit of Arco's will do more damage to a unit of Terminators than the powersword armed DCAs (note, yes I realize that it's not that difficult to come up with a model with a sword and axe for a DCA, but I'm being honest here, some gamers are very lazy and hate conversion) due to the higher strength and additional attack of the Arco since the stock DCA's powerswords will bounce off of a 2+ save.

 

Second, three close combat units can, especially with hammerhand, ruin armored vehicles day. Those are: Arco-flagellants, Banishers with eviscerator, and Inquisitorial Servitors. An Arco buffed with hammerhand becomes a fairly impressive Strength 6, which is enough to not only glance Dreadnoughts (so long as they aren't ironclads), can totally wreck non-Land Raider vehicles with it's very very large number of attacks. Assuming fighting a tank, each arco generates about 2 hits, one of which will be a glance or pen under hammerhand. With 3 Arco's in the unit with hammerhand, you have just destroyed one tank per assault phase. In addition, it is possible (albeit unlikely) that Arco's can damage combat walkers like Dreadnoughts.

 

Inquisitorial Servitors do come with a servo-arm which generates a Strength 8 attack (debatable as to if it is buffed with hammerhand because it's seperate from the model's inherent Strength), which is enough to threaten vehicles fairly reliably. Even more of a threat is an eviscerator armed Banisher with hammerhand. A Banisher, while only getting 1 attack unless charging, gets an 8+2d6 roll against a vehicle under hammerhand if that hit is successful. Even a Land Raider is suffering a penetrating hit on an average roll.

 

While none of these models will beat out a DCA for overall combat effectiveness against enemy infantry, their value against vehicles or high toughness targets should not be underestimated.

 

Edit: To be fair, a lot of the points I raised about Arco's also apply to a DCA armed with a power maul. Although the DCA would become S7 under hammerhand, she'd have one less attack. Note to self: model one of my 6 DCA's with power maul...

[The Holy Heretic]

I'm in a totally different mindset, when it comes to using Coteaz and henchmen.

 

My take is "Expendable Assets".

 

Henchmen are cheap, especially when you concentrate on warrior acolytes and servitors. This allows you to fill up your troop section for next to nothing with small objective campers, leaving you plenty of room to get firepower from your more specialized slots. And the one thing that really sets our wannabe inquisitors apart is their dedication (Ld8) that makes them highly dependable despite of their low cost.

 

Best example:

 

12 points give you 3 warrior acolytes that can sit on an objective.

 

If your opponent wants to deal with them, he'll probably need to assign 150-250 points to do so. Anyone with half a tactical mindset will see that assigning any form of offensive power to deal with something with no offensive capabilities is a waste especially on a 20-1 ratio, but securing those obejctives is what wins you the game.

 

Now take it up a notch:

 

50 points for 3 HB servitors with 5 ablative acolytes. Thats quite a lot of firepower for 50 points, even if they only fire half the time. But this irregularity will work for you, when you don't rely on their firepower, but still regard them as objective campers - compare with 3 tactical marines (about the same price), and you'll have less firepower and resilience when in cover. Spam it, and you fill out your troop section with decent firepower for a measly 400 points.

- you can even spice it up with some plasma, but always keep them behind, and let your knights deal with the midfield.

 

But if you need mobility and a nonpurifier anti-horde weapon

 

91 points will give you 9 bolters and 3 flamers(or plasma or melta, if you see a lot of terminators).

 

Its a little expensive, but then again, a member of the Inquisition can afford to be extravagant. The point again is cheap ablative wounds - now with a little firepower, but not too much as BS3 is just not that good after all - where your special weapons do the job. I prefer flamers, as flamers are a most reliable weapon in the hands of a lowly BS3 trooper - and there really is nothing that spells Inquisition like holy promethium.

 

But what about Coteaz

 

Coteaz is a bit of a pi****. 100 points is a heavy tax for cheap cannon fodder, so you gotta make the most of him. Trouble is, he is geared towards both CC and shooting. I say go with shooting; PC servitors and a little ablative wounds - nothing fancy - as his best abilities goes towards shooting. I myself run him with some death cults, just because I like the idea of crazed killers, but you gotta indulge yourself once in a while.

 

The hidden gem

 

Being mostly a fluff player myself, I've always maintained that the GK was a deepstriking army, and even though people always disregarded DS as a viable tactic, I've always kept my pallies in reserve. The humble mystic did a lot to make this a successfull tactic. 2-3 of these with some forward elements allowed my pallies and deepstriking dreadknights to always hit the spot. There really is nothing like the look on your opponents face, when that 100 point flank suddenly becomes a 900 point flank - and the best is, this can happen on either flank, or even the centre. And since most of your henchmen should be cannonfodder henchmen anyway, the mystic doesn't take up any valuable spots on the team.

 

 

The best of all is a good mix of things, its more fun and tactically diverse. But the rule is: "Keep it CHEAP and EXPENDABLE".

 

-

 

Then again, since everybody seems to stock up on TEQ for 6th., and plasma is considered the choice of the stars. Consider this:

 

Coteaz + 3 PC servitors + 5 ablative acolytes @ 180 pts.

5 x 3 Plasma Acolytes + 3 ablative acolytes @ 54 = 220 pts.

 

Thats 400 points for 41 wounds (39 models) firing up to 30 plasma gun shots and 3 cannons. Have a vindicare remove Draigos storm shield, and see the old king of the battle field burned to cinders, while you just chuckle and pull off cheesy oneliners like: "I love the smell of plasma in the morning.", "Burn baby! Burn!" or "When you're cool, the plasma always burns". :(

 

Again; when your opponent assigns a 500 point jokaero + psychic inquisitor squad to kill off 54 points of henchmen, you know, you've won the game.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Overall fairly decent analysis (harsh, but fair) A few points I noticed or would do differently myself. First, you don't mention the shooting Inquisitorial Servitors in your shooting warband section at all. While they are limited to only really being effective in a warband holding an Inquisitor, the fact you can have a dirt cheap multi-melta or relatively dirt cheap plasma cannon does bear actual mention, especially when combined with say, Jokaero AND plasma gun warriors. That's a unit of "melt your face" if I ever saw one.

 

Well, I personally think if you want to take plasma cannon servitors (don't take multi-melta or heavy bolter, BS3 just doesn't pay off), you have to give up the plasma Acolytes. Basically, they do the same job, its just that one is more mobile (remember, no blasts whilst moving). So no, I wouldn't mix them in with normal squads. Either go 3 x plasma cannon servitor+2 x Jokaero, or 3 x plasma Acolyte+2 x Jokaero. Remember, being blast weapons, you are chained to a static position (which suits Coteaz, but may not suit your other Inquisitors, depending what you want them doing ie aggressively advancing to take objectives with their retinue).

 

Also, while as a general rule I do agree that a unit of DCA's is overall more effective than a unit of Arco-flagellants, two points do need to be raised. First, if you do not want to convert and are going off of stock GW models, as modeled the unit of Arco's will do more damage to a unit of Terminators than the powersword armed DCAs (note, yes I realize that it's not that difficult to come up with a model with a sword and axe for a DCA, but I'm being honest here, some gamers are very lazy and hate conversion) due to the higher strength and additional attack of the Arco since the stock DCA's powerswords will bounce off of a 2+ save.

 

As I mentioned, people can model however they like. However, by rules, power sword+power axe is how you should run them (no other combo gives you the same flexibility). How you choose to represent that is entirely up to you. People have no right to complain if you clearly explain which are DCA and which are Crusaders, and you've noted their armaments in your army list (very important you do so). Only the most anal retentive WYSIWYG players will take issue with it. Also, pro-tip; online you can find plenty of Fantasy bits for axes/swords for conversions.

 

Second, three close combat units can, especially with hammerhand, ruin armored vehicles day. Those are: Arco-flagellants, Banishers with eviscerator, and Inquisitorial Servitors. An Arco buffed with hammerhand becomes a fairly impressive Strength 6, which is enough to not only glance Dreadnoughts (so long as they aren't ironclads), can totally wreck non-Land Raider vehicles with it's very very large number of attacks. Assuming fighting a tank, each arco generates about 2 hits, one of which will be a glance or pen under hammerhand. With 3 Arco's in the unit with hammerhand, you have just destroyed one tank per assault phase. In addition, it is possible (albeit unlikely) that Arco's can damage combat walkers like Dreadnoughts.

 

I'm not interested in building warbands to kill vehicles or Dreads. Just on that subject, the Tech-Marine can already do that with his servo-arms and meltabombs (Dread can't challenge him, he just uses 2+ LoS! / 2++ stave against it). I'm not compromising the combat ability of the unit, not to mention jacking up the points costs (Banishers w/eviscerator are TWICE the price of DCA/Crusaders). Plus, on top of the Tech-Marine, I have the Raven cracking open transports with its multi-melta+lascannon. Anti-tank just isn't required.

 

Inquisitorial Servitors do come with a servo-arm which generates a Strength 8 attack (debatable as to if it is buffed with hammerhand because it's seperate from the model's inherent Strength), which is enough to threaten vehicles fairly reliably. Even more of a threat is an eviscerator armed Banisher with hammerhand. A Banisher, while only getting 1 attack unless charging, gets an 8+2d6 roll against a vehicle under hammerhand if that hit is successful. Even a Land Raider is suffering a penetrating hit on an average roll.

 

1A, I1, S8 is nice, but you forget, 'Mindlock'. That one rule renders them a huge liability without an Inquisitor (and having to bring an Inquisitor just further adds to the already ~500pt total cost of the unit+support). I'd rather my Inquisitor elsewhere boosting shooting with 'Prescience'. Also, three Servitors lose a fight with most things before they can swing, whereas 2 DCA will murder most non-TDA handily, and 2 x Crusaders can tank powerfist like Stormhammers (and deliver a decent power axe hit back). Basic Servitors are just too much of a liability, their I1 forever and no invul (and being 2/3rds the price of the two better alternatives) renders them useless.

 

Edit: To be fair, a lot of the points I raised about Arco's also apply to a DCA armed with a power maul. Although the DCA would become S7 under hammerhand, she'd have one less attack. Note to self: model one of my 6 DCA's with power maul...

 

Most infantry in the game max out at T5 (Wraithguard and Nurgle Bikers are the only units off the top of my head that sport T6 and come in squads). DCA w/sword and Crusaders w/axe already come with base S4. Tech-Marine rad grenades put that to effective S5, with his 'Hammerhand' taking them to effective S6. When fighting 2+ armour, DCA don't even need 'Hammerhand' to go off, they're already effective S6 with base+axe+rad (again, I would struggle to name many units with T5 and a 2+ armour save).

Maul's are really kinda meh, I hate they've forced all Chaplains to take them for crozius (sigh...Librarians are now even more auto-include for MeQ).

 

 

I guess my overall point in the original article was you can try with the others, but you'll never get the same results as 5 x DCA+5 x Crusader. They are just too efficient, and Matt just wasn't enthused enough with the other henchmen options to care about balancing them. As I keep stressing, model how you like. However, rules-wise, you're just gimping yourself not taking the better setup.

 

My take is "Expendable Assets".

 

Henchmen are cheap, especially when you concentrate on warrior acolytes and servitors. This allows you to fill up your troop section for next to nothing with small objective campers, leaving you plenty of room to get firepower from your more specialized slots. And the one thing that really sets our wannabe inquisitors apart is their dedication (Ld8) that makes them highly dependable despite of their low cost.

 

Best example:

 

12 points give you 3 warrior acolytes that can sit on an objective.

 

If your opponent wants to deal with them, he'll probably need to assign 150-250 points to do so. Anyone with half a tactical mindset will see that assigning any form of offensive power to deal with something with no offensive capabilities is a waste especially on a 20-1 ratio, but securing those obejctives is what wins you the game.

 

There is reason they are that cheap though, they die to bolter pot shots. Srsly, one dies, triggers Morale check, off the board they go. More often, they just all die (3 x T3 wounds, in a game where everyone meta's to kill full Tactical squads in cover).

Yeah, its generally a waste of shooting to get rid of them, but its also a waste of a Troops slot for you. At bare minimum, take a Razorback unlock. It keeps them alive until the enemy wastes anti-tank (ie the limited resource of his army, not the acres of anti-infantry built into any army you can name), and it can shoot back pretty hard too (AssBacks, LasPlasBacks).

 

Now take it up a notch:

 

50 points for 3 HB servitors with 5 ablative acolytes. Thats quite a lot of firepower for 50 points, even if they only fire half the time. But this irregularity will work for you, when you don't rely on their firepower, but still regard them as objective campers - compare with 3 tactical marines (about the same price), and you'll have less firepower and resilience when in cover. Spam it, and you fill out your troop section with decent firepower for a measly 400 points.

- you can even spice it up with some plasma, but always keep them behind, and let your knights deal with the midfield.

 

One word; Mindlock. You have to babysit with an Inquisitor, which jacks up the real cost of the unit and also forces you to waste an Inquisitor in a throwaway unit. If you are going to take Gun-Servitors, take the one gun they can't miss with (plasma cannon), then add Jokaero and the Inquisitor (and I'd highly recommend a Chimera too, unless you are definitely taking an Aegis line/Bastions for them).

 

 

But if you need mobility and a nonpurifier anti-horde weapon

 

91 points will give you 9 bolters and 3 flamers(or plasma or melta, if you see a lot of terminators).

 

Its a little expensive, but then again, a member of the Inquisition can afford to be extravagant. The point again is cheap ablative wounds - now with a little firepower, but not too much as BS3 is just not that good after all - where your special weapons do the job. I prefer flamers, as flamers are a most reliable weapon in the hands of a lowly BS3 trooper - and there really is nothing that spells Inquisition like holy promethium.

 

Anti-horde...dude, you should have a couple of Chimeras and Razors knocking around. If mixing in Knights, Purifiers are so auto-include its not funny. Quad psycannon, in a Chimera bunker, its insane (the Inquisitor re-rolls to hit just push it over the edge).

You will never reach flamer range, Acolytes have virtually no staying power. Melta has the same problem. Plasma will reliably score wounds (but you need hits, so an Inquisitor for re-rolls becomes pretty important), and you can stay at 24" if you wish now (although getting rapid-fire working is ideal, you don't have to suicide rush in).

 

But what about Coteaz

 

Coteaz is a bit of a pi****. 100 points is a heavy tax for cheap cannon fodder, so you gotta make the most of him. Trouble is, he is geared towards both CC and shooting. I say go with shooting; PC servitors and a little ablative wounds - nothing fancy - as his best abilities goes towards shooting. I myself run him with some death cults, just because I like the idea of crazed killers, but you gotta indulge yourself once in a while.

 

Woah woah, why the hate? Name another 100pt HQ in the game that does what Coteaz does ^_^ yep, didn't think so.

No, he's flexible is the point. If you want him smashing face, you can. But if you want to camp back with shooty squads, he does that too. Mastery 2 also, don't forget, he's not just spamming out 'Prescience' alone, he's got another Divination power rocking around too (I especially love rolling the 'Ignore Cover' one with plasma cannons haha).

[adamv6]

This is one of the best threads I have ever read on B & C. All contributors up to now, pat yourselves on the back and take a bow.

 

Now, I ask a question.

 

What are your collective opinions on DCAs now being only AP3 in combat (until you start playing with Power Axes that is)?

 

Personally, I lose a lot more +2 save models to sheer weight of wounds than anything else. Based on this I run the following squad;

 

6 x DCAs

4 x Crusaders (with Power Axes - my pro-tip: Chaos Warriors from WH:FB are easy to model into these)

1 x Xenos Inq with Rad Grenades

1 x LRR

 

So you get;(against 80% of opponents)

I6 - 18-24 AP3 attacks that hit on 3 and wound on 3

I4 - 3-4 attacks that hit on a 3 and wound on a 4

I1 - 4-8 AP1 attacks that hit on a 3 and wound on a 4

 

All this delivered by an AV14 vehicle that can sit around softening up other squads ready for the DCAs.

 

This unit has on several occasions cleaned house, 90% of the time cleaning up whole units in 1 turn, reconciling and moving into another unit next turn, ad infinitum (well at least until the game ends :devil: )

[Inquisitor Fox]

Actually I see a lot of merit in giving the power axes to the Crusaders as opposed to the DCAs. I myself have been considering a few Crusaders with storm shield and power maul, modeled with Necromunda Arbites figures, but the axes are a good call. The lower initiative is partially negated by the defensive nature of the storm shield, meaning they are more likely to be alive when we actually get to the I1 phase.

[Gentlemanloser]

What are your collective opinions on DCAs now being only AP3 in combat (until you start playing with Power Axes that is)?

 

MY opinion is, play with the Axe. ;)

 

There is no reason *not* to give them Sword/Axe loadouts.

 

If your DCA are the onyl way you're gonna pop Rhio's then sure, give some Mauls. But I'd prefer a different option to opening transports.

 

Hell, give the Crusaders Mauls. :unsure:

[Inquisitor Fox]

Only downside to giving the Crusader's mauls is that they're a lower base strength. Maul only turns them into a S5, 6 with hammerhand against a vehicle. While pretty good, giving the DCA's mauls with hammerhand makes them a S7 against a vehicle. That's 33% chance per hit of taking a hull point off of even a dreadnought, where the Crusader with hammerhand has only a 16.67% chance of stripping a hull point, and has 1/2th the number of attacks of the DCA on the charge. All in all, this means the DCA is doing about twicefour times the damage output of a Crusader against a vehicle for the same cost, assuming both have power mauls and someone in the unit is using hammerhand.

 

Now say... perhaps some of your DCA's using sword/axe, and some using sword/maul might be a good compromise. I'm just pointing out there are times you want other weapon combinations than just sword/axe.

 

edit: bad math

[the jeske]

If your opponent wants to deal with them, he'll probably need to assign 150-250 points to do so. Anyone with half a tactical mindset will see that assigning any form of offensive power to deal with something with no offensive capabilities is a waste especially on a 20-1 ratio, but securing those obejctives is what wins you the game.

I would like to point out that with first blood , something like a cheap and weak objective unit stoped making sense . First blood is a huge factor while MSU style units [or rather their av11 transports] arent so good anymore . It always good to pop something and gain it , free points and game offten are won by a 1-2 point margin difference.

[adamv6]

The Jeske, I agree about weak units. First blood and Kill the Warlord are the 2 easy points people keep getting against me. I find my psydreads are falling to First Blood, and snipers are more prevalent and are taking my Warlord down. Giving your opponent a 3 model unit to kill 1st is no longer a viable tactic IMHO.

 

I can understand some of the thinking behind giving DCAs Power Axes, but, I still believe there greatest strength lays in their ability to pump out so many hits/wounds at I6.

• From a 6 man DCA unit you average about 10 wounds
  
• On average your opponent will fail 2-3 2+ or 3-4 3+ saves out of 10
  
• So, that 5 man Assault Termie unit is now 3 men, who you charged, so there 6-9 attacks will create 3 wounds, which are on the front row of Crusaders
  
• They take the 3++ save, and then get to swing with AP1 axes, probably finishing the job off with their 8 attacks.
  

If you take away half of those attacks at I6, you are then risking fighting all 5 of those Assault Termies.

 

DCAs got nerfed in 6th most certainly, but, they still generate a huge amount of attacks / wounds. Against 3+ saves, they are still monsters.

 

My tool shed is full of tools for every job. I don't use a hammer to cut wood. In 40k, I don't use DCAs and Crusaders to hunt vehicles...

[Gentlemanloser]

Giving the DCA Swod/Axe doesn't take away any of thier attacks.

 

Neither are specialist weapons.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Or to explain in a more different fashion: The unit entry specifies two power weapons. This allows for the 'standard' option of sword/sword, but with conversion you can also set up your DCA's to have sword/mace, or sword/axe.

 

Sword/mace would allow for either:

3 (or 4) attacks at I6, S4, AP 3+

or 3 (or 4) attacks at I6, S6, AP 4+, concussive

 

Sword/axe would allow for either:

3 (or 4) attacks at I6, S4, AP 3+

or 3 (or 4) attacks at I1, S5, AP 2+

 

You would be able to chose your attacks round by round, but a model must make either all of their attacks with sword or with the other weapon. They may not make 2 sword and 1 axe attacks in the same round, for example. Conversion allows us to manipulate the rules to our advantage with our DCA's and Crusaders.

 

edit: Technically you could also do mace/axe, which would allow for the following:

3 (or 4) attacks at I6, S6, AP 4+, concussive

or 3 (or 4) attacks at I1, S5, AP 2+

 

But it doesn't seem as popular a combo, I assume because of the 4+ AP of the mace.

[the jeske]

if your using them from a SR or a LR lances are a very good option . +1str and ap3 on charge just like swords and it helps against tougher targets like bikers or MCs .

[The Holy Heretic]

@reclusiarch

 

You just missed my point about being "Cheap and Expendable".

 

I do not expect anything from a 12 pt. Acolyte unit. What I buy is the ability to score, and more room for elites/heavy/fast attack. What I gain from them dying is peace for my other units. Sure they can die from pot shots, but pot shots demand committing resources, and going to ground in cover makes them harder to deal with than you'd expect, and Ld8 is pretty reliable. Do I use them? No, I use them as an example of getting a lot (scoring ability) for nought (12 pts).

 

Mind locked servitors need no babysitters, actually one would be a waste. For the same price you get an extra unit (scoring), its just like the Guard you get loads of crap but rely on redundancy. Besides the point wasn't that you get an effective unit, but that you get a unit that has a lot more potential for damage than any other 50pt unit - while camping your objectives.

 

Coteaz - yeah, he's not bad, but I don't think I said so. Its more that, I go for small 50-60 point-ish henchmen warbands, and Coteaz really likes a proper 200 pt. unit. That can take advantage of his powers - and yes, he only got better with 6th.

 

The "antihorde". Sure it doesn't hit as hard as Purifiers, they also cost less than a base purifier squad without upgrades, and they're. What you're getting is a good, cheap unit that can do a lot of damage for few points with plenty of ablative wounds, so they can perform even when taking heavy casualties. Also, at the price of a fully tricked out purifier squad, you can get 4 of these - with 12 special weapons/flamers :D

 

Sure you'll need a lot more caution, when you use henchmen, and it takes a little more tactical skills, but you really have the potential to make high return on investment.

 

@The Jeske Forget about transports, I never mentioned those. Go cheap! The price of a transport doubles a the price of your unit, and my point is to get cheap scoring units and leave points for more specialized units. Instead, use deployment, movement and tactics to make sure you only lose the units you can afford.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

What are your collective opinions on DCAs now being only AP3 in combat (until you start playing with Power Axes that is)?

 

Take sword+axe, problem solved :tu: Next question?

 

You just missed my point about being "Cheap and Expendable".

 

I do not expect anything from a 12 pt. Acolyte unit. What I buy is the ability to score, and more room for elites/heavy/fast attack. What I gain from them dying is peace for my other units. Sure they can die from pot shots, but pot shots demand committing resources, and going to ground in cover makes them harder to deal with than you'd expect, and Ld8 is pretty reliable. Do I use them? No, I use them as an example of getting a lot (scoring ability) for nought (12 pts).

 

None of which score. I cannot stress enough how important Troops are in 6th. Five out of six missions require scoring units on objectives as primary win conditions (with the secondary being for breaking draws largely, they won't overpower winning on primary usually). Troops are the only default scoring unit in any army. Sure, 'Big Guns' and 'Linebreaker' add in Heavy/Fast Attack, but that is specific. The army with more Troops alive on objectives by dice down is the army that wins (except in 'Purge').

 

Yes, they are dirt-cheap, but you get what you pay for. Also, as I mentioned, you have limited Troops slots. You can field your smattering of tiny, meaningless squads if you wish. Meanwhile, your opponent steamrollers over them with his smaller number of full Troops squads+support (Marines in particular love fighting min Henchmen, as even a Combat squad or Assault Marines will bolt pistol+charge them . Taking cheap Troops somewhat offsets the price of Elites/Heavy/Fast Attack, but it doesn't mean they are scoring.

 

Mind locked servitors need no babysitters, actually one would be a waste. For the same price you get an extra unit (scoring), its just like the Guard you get loads of crap but rely on redundancy. Besides the point wasn't that you get an effective unit, but that you get a unit that has a lot more potential for damage than any other 50pt unit - while camping your objectives.

 

Guard field entire armies in a single Troops slot. Also, Guardsmen squads can combine into blobs, and don't derp out on a 4+ (remember, Mindlock affects the entire unit).

[The Holy Heretic]

Lets agree to disagree then.

 

I use my 50-point-ish expendable henchmen to good effect. Think of them as a cheap detachable upgrade to a more 'elite' choice that do the real work, while the fighting is left to the glory hounds. And sure it doesn't take much effort to get rid of them, but the effort will cost you a blow from something that hits 10 times as hard - and again, you can actually bring quite a lot of firepower for small points in a henchman warband. Sure those assault marines can take out one unit, but can they survive ending up in the crossfire of say; 3 units with 9 plasma guns between them on their way to do it?

 

BTW: What do you mean "henchmen don't score"? Coteaz = Troop Henchmen = scoring - or have I missed something? :confused:

[Cmdr Shepard]

BTW: What do you mean "henchmen don't score"? Coteaz = Troop Henchmen = scoring - or have I missed something? :confused:

 

I suppose he is refering to the elite units the henchmen should die for. If I'm not mistaken he wants to say "you will sacrifice scoring units for saving units that cannot score".

[The Holy Heretic]

Actually, there is no 'sacrifice' involved. The small henchmen units are not supposed to be in the line of fire. And if they are, then they won't fold much easier than a more expensive warband. No matter what your configuration is, henchmen just aren't a tough unit - and you won't need a full unit to guard an objective anyway, a lone survivor can do that job.

 

When you feel the heat, then hug cover, go to ground, make your enemy earn those kills. While he does this, then your paladins and dreadknights (made scoring with grand strategy) can have a field day, stomping enemies into the ground.

 

Besides here is some math regarding pot shots. Marines shooting bolters at 6 henchmen (3 plasma acolytes, 3 ablative acolytes) in a 4+ cover will need 24 shots to wipe them out. Your standard 5 man tactical combat squad won't fire more than 10, killing 2,2 henchmen, who can then follow up with 6 plasma shots killing 2.5 marines. Since the henchmen cost half as much, we could even have a second warband to take out the remaining 2.5 marines at even points. So you can see, it takes more than a token effort to get rid of these guys, effort your opponent can't afford :)

 

Loads of special weapons + cheap ablative wounds = made of win.

 

And again, when people get pounced on by paladins, purifiers or whatever you fancy, they seem to have a problem focusing on the little people.

[worloch]

Besides here is some math regarding pot shots. Marines shooting bolters at 6 henchmen (3 plasma acolytes, 3 ablative acolytes) in a 4+ cover will need 24 shots to wipe them out. Your standard 5 man tactical combat squad won't fire more than 10, killing 2,2 henchmen, who can then follow up with 6 plasma shots killing 2.5 marines. Since the henchmen cost half as much, we could even have a second warband to take out the remaining 2.5 marines at even points. So you can see, it takes more than a token effort to get rid of these guys, effort your opponent can't afford :D

 

I don't entirely disagree with your position on small scoring henchmen warbands, but I do think you're maybe overstating the case.

 

I actually come out with 27 shots to wipe out the henchmen: 2/3 hit, 2/3 wound, 1/2 don't save = 4/18 per shot * 27 shots = 108/18 = 6 wounds done. However, your scenario is heavily biased. You are taking a 5 man combat squad out in the open against a 6 man henchman squad in 4+ cover specifically armed with plasma.

 

Lower that cover save to 5+, which is much more common in 6th, and now we only need 20.25 shots to wipe the squad. Those 10 shots result in 2.962 wounds instead of the 2.2 referenced above. Put that same combat squad in the same cover (5+), and now those 6 plasma shots are only killing 1.6 marines.

 

Alternatively, take both squads out of cover, and those 10 shots inflict 4.444 wounds as opposed to the 2.5 inflicted by the henchmen.

 

If I want to stack it the other way, I just give 1 of those marines a Flamer.

 

 

And now with 6th, it would behoove your opponent to attempt to take those potshots from a side where wound allocation will have a good chance to land on a plasma gunner, which will gut that squads ability to respond.

 

 

I guess my point would be, your position seems to rely on the idea that things will go your way - you'll be able to tactically respond to your opponent in such a way that he won't be able to deal with your small scoring units without at least giving up some amount of efficiency, and that primarily you will be using the point cost savings of your small henchmen scoring units to purchase other units to keep your opponent at bay.

 

What happens when things don't go your way? Failed Reserve rolls, for instance, or a highly mobile opponent prepared to kite your heavy hitters away while selectively removing your small squads. Dark Eldar, in particular, like removing smalls squads like that from the board, for the Pain Tokens.

 

Again, let me close by saying I do think henchmen warbands can be extremely cost effective - I just don't think they're as great as perhaps they are being made to sound here, especially when taken to the smallest and spamiest extreme. ;)

[The Holy Heretic]

Good point Worloch - and thanks for correcting me (I also conveniently forgot that 1 of the plasmas would 'Get Hot') :D

 

That said. The thing about these MSU tactics is that you'll have four 50 point units to each of your opponents 200 point units. This gives you a distinct tactical advantage, when you work to outmaneuver your opponent. And to emphasize your point about the futility of such examples, then remember that these warbands will only be a small part of the army, and they'll leave you points for some truly scary hammer units.

 

The key to this is that henchmen warbands are unique in the wargear available to them, where all other squads have defined unit size thresholds, where they unlock the 'big guns', henchmen have these available at any size. This is quite important, as most standard infantry weapons are fairly harmless - with the exception of psybolt storm bolters and pulse rifles. This allows the henchman warband to pack a punch even at low costs.

 

- but don't get me wrong. They aren't great; they're cheap and expendable - which just happens to work good in an army where other units are expensive and where every lost battle brother is sorely missed. What I get from this is; scoring units that I can shield from combat and concentrate on their true purpose (scoring obejctives), and should the enemy choose to fire upon them, then I can rest easy, knowing that he won't diminish my offensive power.

 

And when things don't go my way; I lose. Just as you do, when you end up playing on your opponents terms, or when you chose to rely on a single critical dice roll that fails you.

 

Its a different approach to army building, one that requires more tactics and synergy to use than just massing points in a death star. Its all about keeping focus on whats the most important thing a Coteaz henchman can do: "score objectives", and dedicate them to do so, nothing else matters :D

 

-

 

Here is list of something, I'd actually consider basing my army on (for 1500 - 1750 pt battles).

 

3 Bolter Acolytes + 3 Special Weapon Acolytes 57 pts

3 Bolter Acolytes + 3 Special Weapon Acolytes 57 pts

3 Bolter Acolytes + 3 Special Weapon Acolytes 57 pts

- two of these units would probably carry plasma, and one flamers

 

4 DCA + 2 Axe Crusaders 90 pts

4 DCA + 2 Axe Crusaders 90 pts

- something to grab enemy objectives with the ability to sweep over them, once they'd been softened by the rest of the army.

 

Coteaz + 3 Plasma Servitors + 2 Jokaero + Chimera 185 pts

- a good firebase

 

Total 536 pts.

[worloch]

That looks like a great base to work from. I do think that Coteaz-based armies utilizing MSU strategies are very strong - I believe we are in agreement there.

 

 

At the end of the day, it won't be that ~500 point base alone, it will be 1500-1750 or what have you, working in conjunction with different army elements. My point was more so that the 500 point base is fragile enough that your remaining 1000-1250 points need to be working to actively protect them, if you're relying on them to claim and therefore win.

 

 

I do think you understand that, and we are in agreement there as well.

 

 

For me, working with small and expendable scoring units, I worry about redundancy and vulnerability. My Grandmaster+Paladins may be smashing the heck out of the opponents forces, but if he manages to wipe out my small and expendable units while tying up the Deathstar, I may very well lose. That is what I meant by saying what do you do when things don't go your way.

 

You base list above shows what you do - you take multiple so you have redundancy. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I suppose he is refering to the elite units the henchmen should die for. If I'm not mistaken he wants to say "you will sacrifice scoring units for saving units that cannot score".

 

Yeah basically. Scoring ability is clutch in 6th edition, and if the enemy has wiped out all of your Troops with minimal effort, that's a real problem for you in 5/6 games (and in 'Purge', they're the easiest KP's to earn).

 

I'm not against taking min Henchmen entirely, provided you need to get a transport. But they shouldn't be relied upon as your main scoring units, they're just too fragile (by definition).

 

With the decreased survivability of vehicles in 6th, Razorspam with Henchmen is still cheap enough to beat all others (BA and Wolves don't even come close to your cheapness). However, as I mentioned in the original article, it should be taken as part of something else