Death Guard load out in 6th

[Bat33.1]

What is the recommended load out for a DG squad in 6th? What size squads work best with DG? I know that things may change with the new dex but surely the 6th BRB has given us clues as to where squad loadouts are heading? I'm starting to build up for the new codex and

already have a FW plague marine kit which I'm wanting to start building with to get a head start, any help appreciated :tu:

[Plague Dave]

I'm toying with this at the moment, too. Since I already have most of my squads set up in the melta x2, PF champ fashion from previous editions, this is still what I'm trying out. I do have a plasma squad, magnetized with the option for flamers, but I haven't given the flamers a go yet.

 

I think the standard set up (meltas/PF) is still okay, but we may not need to spam it like we did. One or two squads this way will be plenty. The trick to using this squad in 6th will be getting them out of a Rhino properly to melta a tank (easier now, I think with the 6" disembark). There's no option of the PF champ charging in to finish it off on the same turn, though, which means you have to consider your movement carefully.

 

PF Champs may not be what they used to be, either. Combat rules allow for a little toying around to make sure this guy will still swing vs squads that have characters with higher initiative that might want to challenge him, though. If he's not engaged, he can't get challenged (pg 64, Accepting a Challenge), so if you move around properly, and keep him 3 ranks back, or on the opposite corner from any incoming characters, you can keep him out of combat until I 1 (given the new Pile in and Initiative rules), and hopefully use his move into the fight to pick off a key target (special weapon, or character), but with only 3", that's tricky. Something of a fattened spearhead formation, pointing at potential chargers and taking a healthy advantage of 2" unit coherency seems to work out for this principle (though it's tough to anticipate, and set up all the time). Given PM's low initiative, this can leave your attackers with only a couple PMs to attack in the first place, too, which is nice. And with true T5, they can soak up a lot of dice rolls.

 

I think, without question, though, PFs are no longer worth it on Plasma squads or flamer squads. On objective camping, Plasma squads, I'd go with either a naked champ, or no champ at all now. If you fear some real cc monsters, I'd go naked champ just to accept a challenge, and delay too many wounds going at your PMs. If you think you're going up vs hordes with lots of more basic characters, I'd go no champ to shut down challenges entirely.

 

Flamer squads, I still want to test out, but I'm guessing a champ with a cheap Power Weapon could work out just fine. Or maybe just a combi-flamer. You won't have much luck issuing challenges yourself, but with T5, you might survive against other cheap characters to strike back and get a kill. Plus the Overwatch on three flamers is nice.

 

In a standard 4 PM squad list, I'd now go with the following:

 

7 PMs, melta x2, PF champ, Rhino

x2 7 PMs, plasma x2, naked champ

7 PMs, flamer x2, combi-flamer champ, Rhino

 

(And that's 7 total models, not 8. I think our sacred number is still just fine. Our durability balanced out with T5 all the time, and FnP all the time, even if it's only 5+.)

[Jay Taint]

We're assuming one can still have a load out with 2 special weapons in a 7-man squad. That's what it's like at present -- up to 2 special weapons in any squad of Plague Marines --, but I wouldn't be surprised if that changed for a single special weapon for a 5-man squad and another option at 10-man strength. (That'd be similar to the vanilla CSM case, by the way.) In fact, I believe I've read something along these lines among the many, many rumours. But I can't remember if it applied to vanilla CSM, or specifically Plague Marines, or both. And then it's only rumours and we'll have to see.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. But if it was true, I'd say that'd be the biggest change to a standard Plague Marine squad load out: No 2 special weapons with less than 10 man. And given the rumoured cost of 24 points a model, I wouldn't go for a 10-man squad and would be surprised if people routinely did. Therefore I'll either wait to assemble my upcoming 2 squads (of 7), or go at them step-wise, doing the first with 2 special weapons and possibly distributing the second to the second squad later.

 

Regarding the actual weapon choice: I think I'll go for double plasma. I think it's just the best and most versatile option for a troop choice. I've got other units doing the specialised jobs.

 

Cheers, JT

[Chaeron]

Assuming I can keep what I've been doing for years, it'd be a seven man squad, with two Plasma Guns and a Champion with a Fist...

[Circus Nurgling]

With the FnP dropping down to 5+, I'm reconsidering taking all plasma squads and looking at melta and flamer. Since our initiative will still presumably be lower than most others' still, I'll most likely stick with either a fisty champ or no champ at all. That said I'll probably still take squads in the lucky number 7 and a rhino, as fluff outweighs tactics most of the time with me unless I'm trying to fit something weird into the list.

 

The main thing that's going to change for me is (if the rumours are true) taking a Lord all the time, to unlock PMs as troops. I usually run Sorcerors or DPs 2/3 of the time as a single HQ option, so my points allocation will shift around quite a bit in that regard. That and I'm looking at Typhus more and more lately, as he's getting a points drop and his rules have changed him enough to consider him, but he doesn't actually fit in with my bunch fluff-wise... so I'll have to work something out there.

 

And of course there are allies, now. Can always consider plague bearers and a Great Unclean One, as part of your list now, for solid objective holding.

 

Melee Obliterators. Can't wait to see these models, but I'll wager that I'll be using the Forge World Plague Ogryns proxied for these regardless.

 

That FW kit comes with 10 torsos, right? I'd magnetize 2 of them, for special weapons, build 4 the way you want, save the 7th and hold off til the next codex to see if you want to make one a champ or not, and what loadout to give him (or just magnetize your champ, too). Save 3 of them for characters/champs in your other squads (unless you intend to use all FW plague marines).

[Bat33.1]

Thanks for the replies :P

 

it is difficult second guessing GW here but hopefully not too long to wait now. Yes the FW kit is 10 so will make a start on building some stock PM's plus a plasma PM and hold off on champ until it's clear how he's going to work. Will any nurgle Lord unlock PM's as troops or is it a specific rule? I'm thinking Necrosius here as he counts as a Lord but seems quite points efficient, nothing mentioned about unlocking PM's though in FW's download?

[Plague Dave]

According to the rumors, a Nurgle-marked Lord or Sorc will allow you to take Plague Marines as troops. DPs will not confer this benefit. So you won't have to take Typhus, or Necrosius; you can opt for a cheaper generic HQ (or a more expensive one all tooled out if that's your thing).

 

We're assuming one can still have a load out with 2 special weapons in a 7-man squad. That's what it's like at present -- up to 2 special weapons in any squad of Plague Marines --, but I wouldn't be surprised if that changed for a single special weapon for a 5-man squad and another option at 10-man strength. (That'd be similar to the vanilla CSM case, by the way.) In fact, I believe I've read something along these lines among the many, many rumours. But I can't remember if it applied to vanilla CSM, or specifically Plague Marines, or both. And then it's only rumours and we'll have to see.

 

Cheers, JT

 

Yikes. I hadn't considered that. I haven't heard those rumors. Here's hoping things don't change.

[Circus Nurgling]

That would really put the cheese in my cake if they did that. Stinky, stinky cheese, right in my chocolate cake.

[Gop]

With the codex rumoured to come out Sept 1st or thereabouts, I'm waiting to see how my DG will be affected. I used to take 4x7 in rhino with PF and 2 MG or 2 PG's and max oblits (that usually filled out 1750), but anything could happen. Might also be worth taking demon allies to boost up the weak points of the list.

[Circus Nurgling]

With the codex rumoured to come out Sept 1st or thereabouts, I'm waiting to see how my DG will be affected. I used to take 4x7 in rhino with PF and 2 MG or 2 PG's and max oblits (that usually filled out 1750), but anything could happen. Might also be worth taking demon allies to boost up the weak points of the list.

 

I have been, and to some good effect. Last game I played 3-man free-for-all (and won with 14 VP) a Great Unclean One smashed a Land Raider and drew several Deathwing assault terminators off an objective (and kept them there until the game ended with the help of some plague marines - which didn't survive). I used a Winged Daemon Prince from the Daemons codex instead of the CSM 'dex, for obvious reasons. Very difficult to take down and very maneuverable. Plague bearers were a cheap objective holder at 105 points for 7.

 

Also, Defilers can shoot all weapons now, including its battle cannon, a topic that was difficult for my chaos-playing opponent to accept. ;)

[plaguewolf]

I gonna take as many 10 man squads as possible .. with PF champ and Melta and flamer (if that possible inte the new dex).

Its a really solid squad that can do anything in combat. Just like Mortarion wanted with his DG.

 

the base of my army gonna be 4x10 PM, PF champ, melta flamer...

thats about 1200pts I guess.. then ad a nurgle warlord and a DP and about 500pts for anti-armour in a 2000pts- 2250pts game. the anti-armour probably gonna be som guard, depending on what things the new dex has to offer.

[incinerator950]

I'm wondering how many Reapers I can stick on my Defiler. I seriously want to make Flak Defilers to support my Plague Marines, who will sport several groups of Flamers to follow the combination of Pyre and Plague philosophy.

[shaun03]

I was looking at x2 flamers and a combo-flamer w power maul.

 

I feel this would a great cheap set up for units holding obj, T5 in cover is huge and fnp just top's it off.

The 2d3 attacks paired with defensivene gerandes. Slow moment and keeping hitting them with templates. Yes we all know they don't kill marines out right, how ever the do prove usefull. Than switching over to bolt pistol and cc and lunching our own assault.

 

Again this is just guess work cause we have no clue with what the new dex will bring.

[Chaeron]

I'd still rather have all Plasma to tear up whatever is something at me, but against a horde that'd be worthwhile for sure.

[SOUTHEX]

I had a couple of games in 6th now and every is hating the rapid firing plasma now (except me!)

A couple of the pm plas squads with champs and and H2H squad. This usually consisted of 2x flamers, the champ with combi flamer & p/fist and sorcerer with wind of chaos and a combi flamers on the vehicle; that would be 5 flame templates on the squad prior to the assault.

(crossing fingers and wishing on a star) please GW don't nerf out Plague Marines with your vanilla wiffle bat of doom!

[shaun03]

Being a ba player I am learning the hard way about rapid firing plasma and over watch flames. It hurts no longer can I assault with out feeling the pain.

 

But back on topic plasma is going to be the new x2melta. Now seeing all armies are upping there 2+ save. Good thing for us were not a assault based army.

 

As long as we don't get nef to bad PM stand to really shine in 6th. Gets hot is less of a issue with T5 and fnp. So were ahead of he powerf curve on that, however it wouldn't shock me plasma went up in cost.

 

Every game I see more and more of it.

 

I used the dule flamers in my last match lucky I played IG, they sq wiped out everything he sent to try and grab the obj. The maul is beast agisnt non 3+. Blight gerands = gold agisnt footslogging IG.

 

But I feel it may be to soon to say what the best lay out is..IMO but than agin I just re started playing chaos... Man I missed playing DG

[Muskie]

But back on topic plasma is going to be the new x2melta. Now seeing all armies are upping there 2+ save. Good thing for us were not a assault based army.

 

You're showing your age, 2XMelta is the new 2XPlasma...

 

I've long been a devotee to the 7 man squad, but the game has gotten a lot more difficult for folks who can't play often and refuse to use various things/tactics.

 

I'm thinking of trying 10 man assault squads and 5 man sit back squads. Everyone is off the rhino bandwagon, but I still think a rhino with a havoc launcher has its uses. It is 50 points, can be used as a transport, but also is moving wall/ruin to hide behind. The Havoc can shoot further than any weapon a plaguemarine can have.

 

Cultists even in large numbers I fear will run at inopportune moments, so I'm thinking of having a babysitter squad of fearless plaguemarines. I'll use cultists on the attack to soak up hits but also to lend extra attacks to their more expensive Plaguemarine overloards.

 

I also want the Toughness 6 Nurgle Lord on Bike, I've had the (6) Toughness guy, but I also remember 2nd Edition and my Nurgle Iconbearer on Bike. I'm thinking of bringing back some of my 2nd edition tactics, with some new shiny models and of course air support. ;-)

[Plaguecaster]

Plague marines are awesome in 6th whilst feel no pain being 5+ is a bit annoying but being able to survive meltas or lascannons is epic won a game against eldar yesterday one of my melta squad of 7 plague marines with champion were shot at by 10 fire dragons with exarch they all hit and wounded but the funniest thing was I only lost 3 guys I rolled so many 5s and 6s my opponent was very annoyed.

Depending on the new codex I am very tempted to run an all infantry Nurgle Marine army 14 man squads of plague marines supported by lots of walkers including defilers, contemptor dreadnoughts and of course full squadrons of Blight Drones whilst being flyers are seriously awesome plus I have a weird thing with lots of template and large blast weapons.

[shaun03]

But back on topic plasma is going to be the new x2melta. Now seeing all armies are upping there 2+ save. Good thing for us were not a assault based army.

 

You're showing your age, 2XMelta is the new 2XPlasma...

 

 

 

Yeah been in and out sense 2nd edition. My work keeps me out of the country most of the time.

 

But when armour replace the 2+ save melta came in, now with armour taken a back seat and new rapid fire plasma has came back to the spot light.

 

The bike lord is great choice, ( hoping he is a choice in new dex)

Your ideas of useing second edition tactics is a little head of the power curve, as few us who rember those day, can readjust to 6th better.

Surprising you opt by useing a vindcateor to snipe his IC.

A few of those bastardly tactics are coming in to light again.

 

All footslogger force is something I tempted to do. However I waiting to see what this zombie rumor is all about.

( allying with deamons and taking epi could turn in to auto-inculde as his point cost and unit of plage bearers to cover him are a small amount of points. IMO he very under price.

 

I see wear your heading with 14man sq, but i am thinking 7 might be better reason behind it. There is more obj so gives us more sq to deploy and hold obj. A slow wall of death walking up the board or camping and rapid fireing.

 

The only thing I really on the fence about is inculding a champ in all sq.

1) low I and rumor that chaos must accept challenges means he will die offen.

2) points cost is going to be huge, take more pm or 1 champ.

Plus side of things

1) combo weapon to match or balance

2) pw of what ever kind you feel is best.

3) chance to show of converison skills.

 

Which PW is on going debate in evey army section.

IMO sense we striking last most of the time, a ax might be stable choice, good vs light Vicks , meq mc and 2+.

Cheaper than a PF so it won't hurt as bad when he gets sniped or beat in a challenge.

If we can take lighting claws that may be something to look at.

Swords just don't see them as usefull, we not hitting first so killing meq first is out. But ap3 dose put in work.

Mauls are kinda under rated (IMO) owns 4+ and can hurt light Vicks.

Again that's just thoughts on pw.

 

Now if we could build a all bike list.

[Chaeron]

Everyone is off the rhino bandwagon, but I still think a rhino with a havoc launcher has its uses. It is 50 points, can be used as a transport, but also is moving wall/ruin to hide behind. The Havoc can shoot further than any weapon a plaguemarine can have.

 

Rhinos now more so as cheap, movable cover - convenient in this new edition!

 

Just have to wait for the Codex to see how we truly evolve, but we're finally able to stand toe-to-toe better with a lot of foes we've not been able to touch before.