Gav Thorpe - Deliverance Lost (Spoilers)

[Galileo]

I'm one of the crowd who found the book pretty much rubbish. On the plus side, i can only mention the flashbacks - I really enjoyed those.

 

As for the rest... My main criticism comes from a comparison with the old IA Ravenguard article, which was far darker and much more tragic. For example, you didn't have Corax entering a labyrinth to retrieve a magic tool a la Indiana Jones. You didn't have an army of super astartes popping up in no time (why did the Emp not use that trick himself?). Corax was losing his sanity, now he's just mildly pissed off. And so on.

 

Also, the RG doesnt really feel like RG but rather like plain vanilla - a complete lack of character. What else... predictable plot?

 

To be fair to the author, however, i have to say i have quite enjoyed several of his other books (DA and the eldar). Space Hulk was also OKeish

[sponsra]

As for the rest... My main criticism comes from a comparison with the old IA Ravenguard article, which was far darker and much more tragic. For example, you didn't have Corax entering a labyrinth to retrieve a magic tool a la Indiana Jones.

 

I found these sort of things to be way more anoying than any retcon or percieved flaws in the portrayal of characters. Big parts of the story was just very Harry Potter-ish. No real reason for things to happen and no plot -just a series of colorful events that kids (whom this book was sritten for) would think is cool... Tha labyrinth thing was very silly!

[Bulwyf]

I liked it myself, while it didn't have as much action as other books it was more about what Corax did to try to rebuild his legion more than anything else.

 

The only reason I believe that the infiltration worked was because of how crazy everything was at the time. Any longer and they would have been found out. The reason they didn't have to be super sneaky was becuase they were hiding in plain sight, the only time you have to be sneaky is when you are contactig your handlers, which they did by using someones elses codes.

 

My guess is that later on something hapens that turns the rest of them unstable and he has to kill them all, just think of the story not done yet until the heresy is over. As far as how he acts, I like the change from the normal demi-god attitude that the rest of the primarchs act. My favorite primarchs are now Leman(because I play SW), Vulkan, and now Corax.

 

Since we have the benefit of knowing what happens to the malformed RG and the ultimate outcome of Corax's attempts to flash grow a new Legion I am at least somewhat hopeful that the next book to deal with Corax will show this. I also think we'll see Corax start to go off the deep end and resolve to go into the Eye to get some revenge for all of his little brothers deaths.

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

I'm going to be honest, I was a intensely unsatisfied by the whole 'kills people and takes the faces' angle, no matter how it was justified as plausible by the other marines being traumatised by Istvaan.

 

2 of the most senior raven guard were actually infiltrated Alpha Leigon? Come on, man.

 

I also did not like the Deus Ex Machina, lets walk into the labrynth to get this awesome potion story arc

 

During reading the novels, I've gained a liking for a lot of legions I didn't previously like or know a lot about, Death Guard, Luna Wolves, World Eaters, Alpha Legion, Emperors Children (All PH of course) and I think it's sad that after reading this book I really couldn't care less about the Raven Guard

[daveNYC]

I think the maze was only in there to show off Corax's mental abilities. It didn't make much sense as a protection device since the actual super-goo was in a psychically locked adamanatium vault that was hooked up to a nuke. It also didn't make much sense why the Emperor left everything there instead of moving it back to his man cave in the basement of the palace.

[pingo]

I think the maze was only in there to show off Corax's mental abilities. It didn't make much sense as a protection device since the actual super-goo was in a psychically locked adamanatium vault that was hooked up to a nuke. It also didn't make much sense why the Emperor left everything there instead of moving it back to his man cave in the basement of the palace.

Placing the material that has the capability to destroy the Astartes, Primarchs, and possibly himself, in a place jammed full of thousands of people right next to a portal leading to the realm of his greatest enemy would not have been a good idea.

 

Putting it in a place no-one knows about, in a thing no-one can get into (unless you have the Emperor's knowledge), is a better option.

 

I liked the idea of a labyrinth that randomly rearranges itself on the basis of the random melting of a glacier. Then beating it with maths and logic.

[Lord Bearer]

I actually just finished reading Deliverance Lost. I grabbed it up as soon as I could. I am currently making a Raven Guard army and I was looking forward to it. I grabbed it and read it eagerly... HOWEVER... As I read it, I was admittedly disappointed.

 

I remember reading the old fluff for the RG and I liked the idea of how the chapter had been nearly wiped out and was rebuilding itself. It was a dark and had the tragic Greek feel that always interested me in mythology.

 

Anyway.. the story was trying to retcon the fluff (which I don't think needed messing with) and also lacked a good story. The RG end up being little more than tomb raiders. Making their way through a techno-dungeon.... just didn't seem Astartes-worthy.

 

I DID however like the space combat sequences. I liked the idea of a ship that exchanged protection for stealth. That to me was very RG thing.

 

All in all, I was not as thrilled with DL as the other Heresy books....

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I think allot of people have got an idea into their heads what a primarch should be and get all anoyed when an author doesn't justify their expectations.

 

There were 20 different, individual creations!

 

Some where total hard-ass, rip a subordiante's head off for talking back (yes I am looking at you Jonson) warriors. Others where less so, such as Lorgar and Corax.

 

I think Corax was one of the most humane of the Primarchs, up there with Sanguinius and Guiliman. Thorpe seems to of understood that angle and gone in the right direction. The Astartes are not the US marine corps, some of the Legions whee more a brotherhood than an organised military and Corax's upbringing and experience in a resistance movement in which individuality and a healthy disrespect for authoritarianism are survival traits. I quite enjoyed the more relaxed attitudes of the Raven Guard and found them in keeping with their background as individualistic mavericks.

 

Some of the novel's plot seemd contrived and perhaps Thorpe is not quite as talented as ADB or Abnet, but he is a good author with allot of experience in the 40k genre. I liked his interpretation of the Dark Angls and I liked his interpretation of the Raven Guard.

 

Ask ADB or Abnet to write ALL the HH books, ALL the time and I doubt the answer could be printd in a national newspaper, other augors need a chance and I like the way so many writers are adding their own creativity to the mix.

[Legatus]

Anyway.. the story was trying to retcon the fluff (which I don't think needed messing with) and also lacked a good story.

For a moment I thought you were talking about 'Know No Fear'...

[pingo]

What was the point of that comment, Legatus? :unsure: There's aleady a thread which is totally not about that subject, but where that subject has nevertheless been endlessly beaten into a bloody pulp.

 

Corax's upbringing and experience in a resistance movement in which individuality and a healthy disrespect for authoritarianism are survival traits

This is one of the things that stuck out to me about Corax too. All the Primarchs seem to have been greatly affected by their upbringing. Corax's upbringing would surely have deterred him from being especially authoritarian.

[Capt. Taurus]

I didn't like the book much either, especially since the cover and everything about it seemed so promising.

 

But i always try to focus on positive aspects, just to soothe my soul. The positive aspects of the book are only in minor details like Corax fearing Curze for being so very akin to himself.

 

What really rocked was the Emperor appearing like the Wizard of Oz through Malcador.

 

Another very cool aspect was Corax asking "where is Magnus" as the question of loyalist reprisal came up. Clearly showing that Magnus more than any other Primarch was loyal to the core and that his fall was the most tragic of all Primarch destinies.

 

cheers

[Legatus]

What was the point of that comment, Legatus? ;)

Sharing the disappointment that a novel about a particular event of the Horus Heresy (in this case the Raven Guard's rebuilding) would completely retcon those events and not just be a more detailed story about it.

[Morollan]

What was the point of that comment, Legatus? :blink:

Sharing the disappointment that a novel about a particular event of the Horus Heresy (in this case the Raven Guard's rebuilding) would completely retcon those events and not just be a more detailed story about it.

 

Fluff changes. Get over it.

[Bulwyf]

I hate to repeat myself but since Legatus brought this up I'll indulge: the ending of this book and the time frame it ended in are somewhat blatantly pointing to readers that there is more to come. We know what happened to most of the flash grown Astartes that Corax made. They went corrupt (now thanks to the AL) and Corax had to put them down. I believe his watching his Legion fall apart and force brother to kill brother will turn them into the bitter, silent group of Astartes we know in present day and it will probably drive Corax mad enough to decide to jump into the Eye to get some payback. We as readers just have to be patient. It isn't much of a tragedy without scope and that is what this book gave us: background and scope.

[pingo]

Also, it's more tragic that Corax blames himself when it wasn't his fault at all.