Question about Drop Pods' rules

[Cmdr Shepard]

Greetings Battle Brothers,

I have a couple of questions about drop pods and 6th Edition rules.

 

1. Can a unit disembarking from a drop pod make the usual 6" movement?

There are several players at my local store who say it can but I read several persons say the aren't able to make any movement since the vehicle is considered to have travelled at cruise speed when it deep strikes, thus the models should be placed at base contact with the hull (since Drop Pods are considered open top vehicles). What do you think?

 

2. Can a unit disembarking from a drop pod open fire with its full BS or do it snap-fire?

The argument for "snap fire" is the unit disembark from a vehicle tha moved at cruising speed. Drop Pod rules say the model disembark immediately, thus "derogating" the standard rule (units cannot disembark if the the transport moved more than 6") but it does not alter the rules for shooting. So can a unit disembarking from a vehicle who moved a cruising speed fire with its full BS even though an embarked unit could only snap-fire?

 

Thank you for your assistance.

[guinness drinking dwarf]

I am very much interested in this too as I have a game tonight and have 3 pods in my list. I'm stuck at work at the mo and haven't got my rule book to hand, but due to pods becoming open topped on landing does this change things regarding shooting at full BS??

[Seahawk]

1. "In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one."

 

Placing Disembarked Models

"The model can then make a normal move..."

 

So yes, you get the full 6" from the door. For reference, you get this move because it's the second part of disembarking as a whole. Forget the last edition; this move isn't like a move from last edition. Since every unit gets this move when they disembark, it's all good. The opposing argument has no basis in the rules, just a knee-jerk reaction to something new and exciting.

 

 

2. "After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved..."

 

"In that turn's Shooting phase, these units can fire as normal (or Run), and obvious count as having moved..."

 

Again, the rules are clear that you fire with the normal BS of whatever you're shooting. Regular guns = regular BS, heavy weapons = regular BS (which happens to be 1 because of the various rules). Once more, the opposing argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I think the issue is a little more complicated since they rule say the units arriving via deep strike can fire as usual, refering to the units who arrive on their own.

Then it mention the disembark after talking about the units without transport.

 

After that it say a vehicle is considered to have travelled at cruise speed; thus we have models disemarking from a cruise speed moving vehicle.

It 's not so easy as it seems since they rule does not say the disembarking unit fire as usual. It say that before mentioning transports at all: a clear reference to all those units that deep strike via teleportation, jump packs etc...

[ShinyRhino]

There's no restriction on models disembarking from a transport being unable to fire though, unless the transport was Shaken or Stunned. Even models popping out of a Valkyrie/Vendetta or Storm Raven using Skies of Blood or Grav Chute Insertion can still fire.

[Cmdr Shepard]

There's no restriction on models disembarking from a transport being unable to fire though, unless the transport was Shaken or Stunned. Even models popping out of a Valkyrie/Vendetta or Storm Raven using Skies of Blood or Grav Chute Insertion can still fire.

 

The question is not if they can fire, the question is with Full BS or snap-fire?

Technically you cannot disembark from a vehicle that moved more than 6".

Vendetta/Stormraven rules say the unit can disembark even if they moved more than 6".

Drop Pod rule says the "disembark immediatly"... so is it a "emergency disembarkation", then?

 

I'm with the "standard disembarkation" but that issue is a little more complicated than it looks.

 

EDIT:

I think there is no issue with the movement. I was the first one among my gaming community to consider the 6" movement doable starting from the "opening doors"...

[Seahawk]

My first quoted line is right in the Disembarking area.

 

"After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved..."

 

You can shoot as normal, easy and done.

[ShinyRhino]

My first quoted line is right in the Disembarking area.

 

"After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved..."

 

You can shoot as normal, easy and done.

 

As you said before, that wraps it up in a nice little package.

 

We have the basic rules for disembarking from a transport, which restrict the transport to a 6" move. The advanced rules for Drop Pods override that, allowing the unit to disembark as normal from the Deep Striking transport pod. If it were an emergency disembarkation, the Drop Pod rules (or the relevant FAQ) would indicate as such.

Once the unit is out of the pod, the basic rules for what a unit can do after disembarkation kick back in. Full BS unless it's a Heavy.

[Cmdr Shepard]

My first quoted line is right in the Disembarking area.

 

"After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved..."

 

You can shoot as normal, easy and done.

 

Unless I have a rulebook with typing errors they are two different paragraph. (I didn't find these very words in the Deep Strike entry)

 

I found the "After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved..." in the vehicle section but it also say they can move only 6" (combat speed) for the unit to disembark.

 

I posted this topic because I planned to buy some drop pods and I'd like to know what disembarking units can do. Drop Pod-ing units is not always a wonderful idea and I'd like to know if those units have other limitations.

 

Anyway I still believe the text is not so clear as it seems.

[Seahawk]

Unless I have a rulebook with typing errors they are two different paragraph. (I didn't find these very words in the Deep Strike entry)

...because they are in the Disembarking area, under Transports...;)

 

I found the "After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved..." in the vehicle section but it also say they can move only 6" (combat speed) for the unit to disembark.

Codex > BRB. Codex says the drop pod's occupants must disembark when it arrives, even though it's at Cruising Speed, which overwrites the BRB saying you can only move at Combat Speed. Since the disembark move is up to 6" from the edge of the door, drop podders get to drop in and go 6". ;)

[Cmdr Shepard]

Unless I have a rulebook with typing errors they are two different paragraph. (I didn't find these very words in the Deep Strike entry)

...because they are in the Disembarking area, under Transports...:lol:

 

Why do you think I mentioned that in the other part of my post :o

 

Codex > BRB. Codex says the drop pod's occupants must disembark when it arrives, even though it's at Cruising Speed, which overwrites the BRB saying you can only move at Combat Speed. Since the disembark move is up to 6" from the edge of the door, drop podders get to drop in and go 6".

 

I was talking about shooting not moving. Anyway Codex does not mention shooting.

I suppose I didn't make my original question clear enough... I don't even have the English version of rulebook with me right now...

[pyroknight]

I do understand where Shepard is coming from, but I still have to agree with seahawk and shiny.

 

If the drop pod moved at combat speed, there would be no question to the rules.

 

But it moved at cruising speed… Since we don’t have any rules for passengers disembarking at cruising speed, we must go with the rules we do have. The passengers can shoot, and it counts as if they moved.

No where does it say their shooting is dependant on the transport’s movement. Once the unit has disembarked, we disregard whatever the transport did because we have no rule telling us that it matters.

[Cmdr Shepard]

I do understand where Shepard is coming from, but I still have to agree with seahawk and shiny.

 

If the drop pod moved at combat speed, there would be no question to the rules.

 

But it moved at cruising speed… Since we don’t have any rules for passengers disembarking at cruising speed, we must go with the rules we do have. The passengers can shoot, and it counts as if they moved.

No where does it say their shooting is dependant on the transport’s movement. Once the unit has disembarked, we disregard whatever the transport did because we have no rule telling us that it matters.

 

Somehow it can be deduced, even though it's not expressly stated.

I'll try to make my point a little more clear using a couple of "syllogisms".

 

Let's consider for a moment the ordinary rules, namely non-deep striking vehicles.

The rule say that if the move at combat speed the embarked model can fire and count as moved.

The rule also say the models can disembark only if the vehicle moved at combat speed; they can shoot and count as moved thus

 

Combat Speed effect on embarked unit's shooting= effect of disembarkment on unit's shooting.

 

In other words the disembarking unit experience the same effect on shooting coming from combat speed.

 

Now let's finally consider the Drop Pod.

Rulebook says deep stiking vehicles are considered have travelled at cruising speed.

Drop Pod's specific rule states that unit can disembark even though the vehicle moved more than 6".

The Codex specific rule does not invalidate the "disembark syllogism" I mentioned above thus we COULD (plese notice I wrote could) say:

 

If disembarking models experience the same effect of the vehicle movement (as I mentioned above), a vehicle that moved at cruise speed allows its passegers only to snap fire, thus the model disembarking from a cruise moving vehicle have to snap-fire as for the reasons mentioned above.

 

I'm not saying this is the right intepretation. I'm just saying the metter is no so simple as it seemed.

 

Anyway, I'm glad you understand what I was trying to say, piroknight :lol:

[Seahawk]

I thought you were still unconvinced that you could move up to 6" from the disembark. Oopsy ;)

 

 

On shooting, it doesn't say that they are subject to Snap Shot when they disembark, only that they count as having moved. That's the only restriction to disembarkers. Thus, no matter how far one's transport has moved, they get to shoot as normal. Your example is needlessly extrapolating rules from a rule that has nothing to do with the one in question.

 

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed..."

 

They certainly aren't performing that bolded action if they themselves are out of the vehicle, right?

[Ming]

I don't have the book in front of me....but the same would be applied to deep striking units? Deep striking terminators are not restricted to snap shots...neither are deep striking jump pack units? Right? So effectively a pod is a deep striking vehicle...the transported unit is essentially deep striking...just shoot as if having moved...

[Cmdr Shepard]

I don't have the book in front of me....but the same would be applied to deep striking units? Deep striking terminators are not restricted to snap shots...neither are deep striking jump pack units? Right? So effectively a pod is a deep striking vehicle...the transported unit is essentially deep striking...just shoot as if having moved...

 

Units deep striking on their own have a clear set of rules. I was talking about a different "circumstance".

 

I thought you were still unconvinced that you could move up to 6" from the disembark. Oopsy :P

 

 

On shooting, it doesn't say that they are subject to Snap Shot when they disembark, only that they count as having moved. That's the only restriction to disembarkers. Thus, no matter how far one's transport has moved, they get to shoot as normal. Your example is needlessly extrapolating rules from a rule that has nothing to do with the one in question.

 

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed..."

 

They certainly aren't performing that bolded action if they themselves are out of the vehicle, right?

Obviously I wasn't clear enough :)

I was just trying to indentify a "pattern of behaviour" on the relation between the vehicle movement and disembark, since the drop pods are "anomalous".

 

Maybe things are easier then I thought....

[Leonaides]

A pattern of behaviour that happens to create an entirely new rule is probably an incorrect pattern. Esp where gw is concerned. Fire as normal for moving units in my opinion.