Tactical Terminators: Deployment Debate

[rubix41]

I have been recently reading Myst's Tactica: Tactical Terminators and I am thinking of including a small squad of 5 with no upgrades bar the Cyclone Missile Launcher to squeeze into a 1000pts trial list. (NOTE: I have only used Terminators once and that was in the opening stages of 5e and I never had the urge to try again but Myst has swayed me to give it another try)

 

If you haven't read Myst's article, he points out that:

• Small squads are fragile - if possible go for 10
  
• Shoot the choppy, chop the shooty - play to YOUR strengths not your enemies
  

 

So, what am I going to be using my Terminators for? They are my back-line / counter attack support bar my 6 man ML Devastators, they are the only unit on foot and in a Razorback. Raining Krak and Frag on enemies unit while my forward units harry and attack forward positions.

 

I am thinking, with the Devastators, on the back line with ruins, the Dev's are up top shooting away while the Terminators are holding the bottom ground with the Razorback to block access and the Cyclone in cover but shooting away. (Any objectives will be right in front of the ruins)

 

- = Ruins Level

D = Devastators

T = Terminator

 

------ D D D D D D

------

------ T T T T T

 

For my first question: If you are expecting an assault, would it be better to actually split the Terminators up between floors or better to leave them in that formation? And is it legal?

 

If you split between floors, I can see an assault force taking their time as they have to carve their way through Terminators to get anything and the fact that the combat will be drawn out as they fight each level but I also see let's say 1 terminator on ground level and 4 on the second level may be breaking formation because of the distance off each level.

 

Something like so:

 

------ D D D D D D

------ T T T

------ T T

 

Also, would it be better to take 1 man off the devastators to include some chain-fists in the terminators?

 

Also, another question is pushing up-field, if you DS - I think the formation looks like this after deep strike,

 

T T

T T T

T T

 

and then scatter into line with a 2" to avoid getting nailed by a Vindicator shot or something like that (see later when I get a line diagram). But what if you are starting on the board? If you put them up front, I would expect them to draw a lot of fire but it's a 6" move per turn but you would also go for it in line formation as well, something like this:

 

 

T<2 inch gap>T<2 inch gap>T<2 inch gap>T

Cyclone missile

 

EDIT: Formating error think: Terminators in line and a Cyclone slightly behind

 

But under 6" rules would it be better to stagger the line? If the closest enemy gets hit and there are no targets in range, the shooting will stop so it might sacrifice one Terminator to keep the Cyclone from getting nabbed. Also in combat, in receiving a charge, one Terminator buys the farm as they are the closest but then (due to the reduction of the charge) in most cases you might actually be on equal ground (especially if terrain is on your side)

 

So would something like this:

 

T<2 inch gap> <2 inch gap>T

T <2 inch gap>Cyclone Missile T<2 inch gap>

 

EDIT: Formating error think: Terminators in line, 2 slightly forward to take incoming fire on the flanks and a Cyclone slightly behind with two about the same level.

 

Be more effective?

 

Hopefully, my conversation won't generate too much scorn but I am hoping to see some idea on how to play quite a flexible squad.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Making a "strategic model" before playing maybe useful but remember what they say about plans: they never survive enemy contact ;)

 

Remember that when dices start to roll (or bullets fly over your soldiers' heads, fro your minis point of view, of course ;) )

[Ming]

Yeah, keep the cyclone in the middle.

 

Best role for tactical terminators? Not getting in combat with AP2 enemy units of course!

 

Tac terminators are best in a large squad on foot, maybe in a list with a gate Libby. 10 means you can combat squad at deployment for more flexibility.

 

I roll 1's on dice so often, I think I'm cursed....5 termies in a squad just wont last if I lose a single one each turn....

[DarkGuard]

As has been said, I wouldn't make a precise deployment map of your forces, it won't always work. Have a rough idea, stay flexible, and keep the CML in the middle, and hopefully not much with go wrong. :)

[Mysticaria]

That's awesome that I have inspired someone. I am trying to get some games in with 6E in order to be able to update my thoughts for the new edition, but you know how it is with real life competing for time. Some of that article is out of date, but I have a feeling terminators are going to be even better in 6E that they were in 5E. So far in the limited games I've played they have outperformed even what they did in 5th. However, with the relative weakening of vehicles and the relative boosting of terminators, I won't be surprised if people start packing a lot more plasma heat.

 

For deployment, I agree with everyone else here. You don't have to plan it out further than knowing you want the Terminators to intercept threats to the Devastators. There's a couple things I want to point out that you may not have thought of.

 

1- You want to charge when possible, not be charged. 2+ save is nice, but let's face it... 5x tactical terminators aren't getting that many attacks. Boosting them from 11 attacks to 16 attacks is a big advantage, and you get to shoot first on the way in. If the plan is to charge the threat, rather than let the threat charge you, there isn't as much thinking involved with terrain. Just remember to keep the missile guy back from whatever is going to shoot you so that he doesn't have to take any saves until everyone else is dead.

 

2- Intercepting threats doesn't mean you have to stay put. You just have to be close enough to be able to ensure the enemy can't sneak past you. If the devs are in terrain, and are on a raised level, that is going go significantly reduce the distance they can be charged from (effectively... not literally) and means you will be able to see the move coming more turns in advance. I can place a unit of terminators 12" away from a dev squad and protect if effectively is all the enemy units are on the other side of me. I don't necesarilly have to stay 2" away from the devs.

 

3- Not all enemies will deal with devs by assaulting them. What if the threat is a skimmer, another unit of devs, a psyflemen, a warwalker squadron, etc... You may want to advance your terminators into range of the threat to deal with it, and that may be far away from your devs. Don't be afraid to advance where you need to be in order the deal with the threat.

 

4- Are devs really what you want to protect? Think about the mission, and the role that terminators, devs, scoring troops, will have on the game. Sometimes it might be best to have the devs protect the terminators, or have the terminators protect the scoring troops, etc... Don't be afraid to be tactical in your thinking. Remember, the whole point of tactical terminators is that they give you a flexible tool that can be used to modify how your army plays, and that can be different from game to game depending on scenario, terrain, enemy forces, etc...

 

In general... deploying terminators want to be spread out in a line if the enemy has large blasts. If they have no blasts, you can be closer together, but always put the missiles a little further back. If the enemy has drop pods, outflank, infiltrate, deep strike, or some way to attack from unexpected angle... put the missile in the middle and stagger the line so he's not closest from any one direction. If the enemy has neither large blasts nor drop pods, then just keep the missile in the back and spread out however you like up front.

 

-Myst

[rubix41]

Ah, the man cometh...

 

1- You want to charge when possible, not be charged. 2+ save is nice, but let's face it... 5x tactical terminators aren't getting that many attacks. Boosting them from 11 attacks to 16 attacks is a big advantage, and you get to shoot first on the way in. If the plan is to charge the threat, rather than let the threat charge you, there isn't as much thinking involved with terrain. Just remember to keep the missile guy back from whatever is going to shoot you so that he doesn't have to take any saves until everyone else is dead.

 

(Although, like you said, may be reduxing the guide to 6e so it may be redundant)

 

True, I have been thinking it from a defensive position that attack wasn't on my mind. I was wondering more about chain-fists. With hull point vehicle rules, do Terminators really need to have that extra 2D6? If not, I could squeeze another terminator in by dropping the consideration for chain fists.

 

4- Are devs really what you want to protect? Think about the mission, and the role that terminators, devs, scoring troops, will have on the game. Sometimes it might be best to have the devs protect the terminators, or have the terminators protect the scoring troops, etc... Don't be afraid to be tactical in your thinking. Remember, the whole point of tactical terminators is that they give you a flexible tool that can be used to modify how your army plays, and that can be different from game to game depending on scenario, terrain, enemy forces, etc...

 

Well, this is where I went tunnel vision - you see, I am really bad at planning an attack with my all-comers list but, when I read your Tactica, I thought with Terminators it made be want to give it a go. Especially, the idea of using mobile cover - thus the Razorback. Once the Dev's are deployed, a vehicle to act as cover (or becoming cover when wrecked in 5e) and using to block LOS and adding some extra firepower for the price of 1 Terminator.

 

I am hopefully going to try and modify my play as I get more comfortable with them but it just feels so alien to me since I am using to shooting first then assaulting so shooting AND assaulting (which you can do with Terminators) is both new and different for me.

[rubix41]

4- Are devs really what you want to protect? Think about the mission, and the role that terminators, devs, scoring troops, will have on the game. Sometimes it might be best to have the devs protect the terminators, or have the terminators protect the scoring troops, etc... Don't be afraid to be tactical in your thinking. Remember, the whole point of tactical terminators is that they give you a flexible tool that can be used to modify how your army plays, and that can be different from game to game depending on scenario, terrain, enemy forces, etc...

 

After playing my first game with my T-Unit, I totally respect them so thanks to Myst for bringing them back into my playing fold. In the case above, my opponent sent two squads of Assault Marines and a bare bones squad to counter two Vindicators and the Devastators that were covering an objective. The Terminators were there to cover the Dev unit (although my opponent still said that a DS or Hammernator's is a better risk especially with his Plasma Cannons) but using the Dev's Razorback covered the Terminators from getting shot up by plasma.

 

So what happened in combat? The Assault Marines couldn't hardly dent them due to my 2+ rolls and got a Power Fist for their trouble. The Vanguard blew up a Vindicator (which killed 2 of my guys) and got two krak missiles in the face and a power sword attack through the rest. Unfortunately, i still got mashed but no fault to the terminators who held a flank by themselves but I do agree with Myst - a 5 man squad is fragile but you must be willing to use them aggressively to get the most out of them especially because they are tactically able to move and fire.

 

And spread them out in line to avoid the plasma cannons but also watch out for just normal blasts, especially if they are forced in a huddle.

[Mysticaria]

What kind of plasma did he have? Was it plasma canons? Seems like you did a great job of using the vehicle to screen the termies from the plasma.

 

-Myst

[rubix41]

What kind of plasma did he have? Was it plasma canons? Seems like you did a great job of using the vehicle to screen the termies from the plasma.

-Myst

 

Yup, Plasma Cannon Devastator Squad sitting behind an Aegis Defence line. I probably go for a Rhino next time and save the points for something else but having a Rhino and Razorback as cheap mobile cover is not bad. If my opponents takes all the hull points off, I get a wreck for cover but they can't shoot the squad up if the Rhino is in the way.

 

It was like this:

 

[Plasma Cannon Line Here]

<----------------------->

 

Transport Footprint Here

Transport Footprint Here

Transport Footprint Here

Transport Footprint Here

Transport Footprint Here

 

Terminator Squad here

 

In a way, I could have used a Vindicator (I had two) instead of a Rhino but the Vindicator's had a 4pt objective under it's gaze so I left them in cover (hull down). Since I didn't have much to break the Aegis Line - his fast attack element swarmed over me - the devastators attacked with impunity so, once the Razorback was gone, I was using it for static cover that stopped the right flank attack but, for some unlucky saves, my 5 man squad got mashed - not without taking substantial enemy numbers down but, if used more aggressively, it would have probably smashed up the Aegis line.

 

I did notice though Terminator Sarge's with Power Swords are important and may not need replacing - the enemy is coming at you with a slower attack (powerfist /axe) and usually a 3+ save - hit them hard and fast!