Grey Angel

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Read Angels of Darkness. It will in fact also Delve deeper into the issues that surround the banishment of many marines by the Lion. Its all cannon but it gives an interesting point of view and if you dont like it just sum it up as all filthy lies by a traitor ;) I personally love that 40k book. It is in my top 3 of all time 40k books.

 

Its all lies :P

 

He contradicts himself enough times to prove it.

 

Personally, I think Astelan was just jealous of the Lion, he had been leading the Legion for best part of the entire Crusade, then, suddenly, he gets shoved down to a single Chapter. I think he felt upset that he was no longer in charge, that he would, could, have done a better job than el'Jonson in leading the Legion. This is what, I think, led him and el'Jonson to clash.

 

Astelan didnt clash with the Lion, but rather with one of the Lion's pet commanders if i remember accurately.

 

then the commander complains, and our tried and true Astelan gets removed from his position and sent home to Caliban.

 

that would piss me off as well.

 

WLK

[MordentHex]

Read Angels of Darkness. It will in fact also Delve deeper into the issues that surround the banishment of many marines by the Lion. Its all cannon but it gives an interesting point of view and if you dont like it just sum it up as all filthy lies by a traitor :D I personally love that 40k book. It is in my top 3 of all time 40k books.

 

Its all lies ^_^

 

He contradicts himself enough times to prove it.

 

Personally, I think Astelan was just jealous of the Lion, he had been leading the Legion for best part of the entire Crusade, then, suddenly, he gets shoved down to a single Chapter. I think he felt upset that he was no longer in charge, that he would, could, have done a better job than el'Jonson in leading the Legion. This is what, I think, led him and el'Jonson to clash.

 

Astelan didnt clash with the Lion, but rather with one of the Lion's pet commanders if i remember accurately.

 

then the commander complains, and our tried and true Astelan gets removed from his position and sent home to Caliban.

 

that would piss me off as well.

 

WLK

 

Like i said, people can take or leave these books as they like, I personally think Astelan hit the nail on the head a bit harder than people would like to believe. With more of the dark angel story coming to light in these new books and audio drama's Astelan may in part a tleast be vindicated in his actions a little. Not hthat it matters one little bit in 40k. ;)

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Read Angels of Darkness. It will in fact also Delve deeper into the issues that surround the banishment of many marines by the Lion. Its all cannon but it gives an interesting point of view and if you dont like it just sum it up as all filthy lies by a traitor :o I personally love that 40k book. It is in my top 3 of all time 40k books.

 

Its all lies :cuss

 

He contradicts himself enough times to prove it.

 

Personally, I think Astelan was just jealous of the Lion, he had been leading the Legion for best part of the entire Crusade, then, suddenly, he gets shoved down to a single Chapter. I think he felt upset that he was no longer in charge, that he would, could, have done a better job than el'Jonson in leading the Legion. This is what, I think, led him and el'Jonson to clash.

 

Astelan didnt clash with the Lion, but rather with one of the Lion's pet commanders if i remember accurately.

 

then the commander complains, and our tried and true Astelan gets removed from his position and sent home to Caliban.

 

that would piss me off as well.

 

WLK

 

Like i said, people can take or leave these books as they like, I personally think Astelan hit the nail on the head a bit harder than people would like to believe. With more of the dark angel story coming to light in these new books and audio drama's Astelan may in part a tleast be vindicated in his actions a little. Not hthat it matters one little bit in 40k. ;)

 

Im finding the opposite to be true, actually, it appears that Astelan was complicit in Heresy and Treachery more than he was ready to admit. And that the Lion is 100% loyal to The Emperor, rather than the Imperium.

 

And WLK: Astelan came across as already angry and annoyed with LeJ.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I agree that Astelan was angry with the Lion.

 

anybody in his shoes would be.

(maybe not angry enough to go with the chaos gods, but so far in the Heresy novels Astelan seems like a solid Marine. I can only wait and see what pushes him into the attitude he holds on Angels of Darkness)

 

WLK

[MordentHex]

Read Angels of Darkness. It will in fact also Delve deeper into the issues that surround the banishment of many marines by the Lion. Its all cannon but it gives an interesting point of view and if you dont like it just sum it up as all filthy lies by a traitor :P I personally love that 40k book. It is in my top 3 of all time 40k books.

 

Its all lies ;)

 

He contradicts himself enough times to prove it.

 

Personally, I think Astelan was just jealous of the Lion, he had been leading the Legion for best part of the entire Crusade, then, suddenly, he gets shoved down to a single Chapter. I think he felt upset that he was no longer in charge, that he would, could, have done a better job than el'Jonson in leading the Legion. This is what, I think, led him and el'Jonson to clash.

 

Astelan didnt clash with the Lion, but rather with one of the Lion's pet commanders if i remember accurately.

 

 

then the commander complains, and our tried and true Astelan gets removed from his position and sent home to Caliban.

 

that would piss me off as well.

 

WLK

 

Like i said, people can take or leave these books as they like, I personally think Astelan hit the nail on the head a bit harder than people would like to believe. With more of the dark angel story coming to light in these new books and audio drama's Astelan may in part a tleast be vindicated in his actions a little. Not hthat it matters one little bit in 40k. :lol:

 

Im finding the opposite to be true, actually, it appears that Astelan was complicit in Heresy and Treachery more than he was ready to admit. And that the Lion is 100% loyal to The Emperor, rather than the Imperium.

 

And WLK: Astelan came across as already angry and annoyed with LeJ.

Difference of opinion. We will have to agree to disagree on that in part at least. He definitely had a bone to pick with the Lion. This could and probably did cloud his judgment but as far as i have read and has been told Astelan was of sound moral character but for being very bitter. Nothing is black and white with 40k or the Dark Angels, just many shades of grey. So maybe it s just to soon to jump to conclusions. But this Audio Drama does have me wanting to go back and revisit the older DA books and stories.

[malika666]

Read Angels of Darkness. It will in fact also Delve deeper into the issues that surround the banishment of many marines by the Lion. Its all cannon but it gives an interesting point of view and if you dont like it just sum it up as all filthy lies by a traitor ;) I personally love that 40k book. It is in my top 3 of all time 40k books.

 

Its all lies ;)

 

He contradicts himself enough times to prove it.

 

Personally, I think Astelan was just jealous of the Lion, he had been leading the Legion for best part of the entire Crusade, then, suddenly, he gets shoved down to a single Chapter. I think he felt upset that he was no longer in charge, that he would, could, have done a better job than el'Jonson in leading the Legion. This is what, I think, led him and el'Jonson to clash.

 

Astelan didnt clash with the Lion, but rather with one of the Lion's pet commanders if i remember accurately.

 

 

then the commander complains, and our tried and true Astelan gets removed from his position and sent home to Caliban.

 

that would piss me off as well.

 

WLK

 

Like i said, people can take or leave these books as they like, I personally think Astelan hit the nail on the head a bit harder than people would like to believe. With more of the dark angel story coming to light in these new books and audio drama's Astelan may in part a tleast be vindicated in his actions a little. Not hthat it matters one little bit in 40k. :P

 

Im finding the opposite to be true, actually, it appears that Astelan was complicit in Heresy and Treachery more than he was ready to admit. And that the Lion is 100% loyal to The Emperor, rather than the Imperium.

 

And WLK: Astelan came across as already angry and annoyed with LeJ.

Difference of opinion. We will have to agree to disagree on that in part at least. He definitely had a bone to pick with the Lion. This could and probably did cloud his judgment but as far as i have read and has been told Astelan was of sound moral character but for being very bitter. Nothing is black and white with 40k or the Dark Angels, just many shades of grey. So maybe it s just to soon to jump to conclusions. But this Audio Drama does have me wanting to go back and revisit the older DA books and stories.

 

For the bold part: you think it's around 50 shades?

 

Sorry, had to do that one!

 

I'm very fond of the idea that the Dark Angels' loyalty is put to question. Not making it fully clear on which side they are on makes them, and the conflict a lot more interesting and convincing. The Emperor's brightest son just rebelled, I doubt all would immediately simply pick sides or any side for that matter. It's almost when a kid's parents split up, whose side will they pick: mom or dad?

[MordentHex]

For the bold part: you think it's around 50 shades?

Sorry, had to do that one!

I'm very fond of the idea that the Dark Angels' loyalty is put to question. Not making it fully clear on which side they are on makes them, and the conflict a lot more interesting and convincing. The Emperor's brightest son just rebelled, I doubt all would immediately simply pick sides or any side for that matter. It's almost when a kid's parents split up, whose side will they pick: mom or dad?

Nope, 30k shades of Grey. :P I don't think either side was totally right or totally wrong. Obviously some fans love the DA while others love the Fallen. I love neither and constantly finding myself rooting for the Night Lords. Maybe its just ADB's writing that has effected me like a mem-virus.

[Aegnor]

Just listened to it this morning - need to listen again to catch all the detail, but loved it, thought it a really strong addition to the story of the DAs left on Caliban.

 

Really liking John French's stuff for the Heresy so far - hope we see lots more from him in future. Think he nailed Luther and the left behind Dark Angels in this.

 

Amazing how he did a much better job of showing Luther in five-six minutes of dialogue than has been managed so far in the HH series in two full length novels. Obviously French had those novels to build on, but thought he did a great job and hope he is involved in the future detailing of the DA/Fallen split.

 

Didn't realise the

mysterious DA who helped Loken and Qruze was Cypher - the description of the armour rang a bell, but didn't place it. Very interesting. To my mind that confirms what was suspected - that the Cypher from Fallen Angels is NOT the "40k Cypher". Hoping its Zahariel.

 

 

Saw someone saying that this story occurred between Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels - I'm not sure that's the case, or what the basis for that judgement is - is it just Luther's demeanour?

 

The fiddling with the timeline re what campaigns Luther and the proto-Fallen had been involved with is a bit odd, but I actually don't mind it - that the split between the Lion and Luther happened SO soon after they joined the Crusade had jarred me previously, so I'm ok with that being amende, albeit its unfortunate that it's occurred.

 

 

Agree with those who've said that its not the case that the Imperium now knows of the split in the DAs. Loken knows there is something building around Luther, and realises what a dangerous individual Luther could be - to borrow a term from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time that Luther is a "ta'veren" like the Emperor or Horus - someone who will bend the shape of the future. They establish Horus hasn't develope any influence on Caliban, but that there is a (separate) major problem brewing on Caliban. Even if they report this back, so what? The Lion or his successor, at most, subsequently acknowledge there was some discontent that was exaggerated in Loken's account. The question of the DA's loyalty is seemingly settled when they show up at Terra and help drive off the traitors and then help in Scouring. Any concerns, as first hand knowledge of what Loken and Qruze saw fades, seems insignificant then is lost altogether.

 

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Saw someone saying that this story occurred between Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels - I'm not sure that's the case, or what the basis for that judgement is - is it just Luther's demeanour?

 

At the end of Fallen Angels, Luther tells Zahariel, that he has heard Horus turned on the Emperor (pg 406). I think Grey Angel takes place in the 8 months Zahariel was in a comma or before based upon what Luther knew and when he knew it.

[Aegnor]

Ah, thanks.

 

The timeline with all the HH stories is getting very complicated!

[MordentHex]

Saw someone saying that this story occurred between Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels - I'm not sure that's the case, or what the basis for that judgement is - is it just Luther's demeanour?

 

At the end of Fallen Angels, Luther tells Zahariel, that he has heard Horus turned on the Emperor (pg 406). I think Grey Angel takes place in the 8 months Zahariel was in a comma or before based upon what Luther knew and when he knew it.

Probably, 8 months is a long time to be out of things, and when he woke up Luther had word of power drawn on his skin, there was no mention of this tiny detail in Grey Angel.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Saw someone saying that this story occurred between Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels - I'm not sure that's the case, or what the basis for that judgement is - is it just Luther's demeanour?

 

At the end of Fallen Angels, Luther tells Zahariel, that he has heard Horus turned on the Emperor (pg 406). I think Grey Angel takes place in the 8 months Zahariel was in a comma or before based upon what Luther knew and when he knew it.

Probably, 8 months is a long time to be out of things, and when he woke up Luther had word of power drawn on his skin, there was no mention of this tiny detail in Grey Angel.

 

The description of Luther in Grey Angel does not suggest his skin is particularly visible for examination.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Saw someone saying that this story occurred between Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels - I'm not sure that's the case, or what the basis for that judgement is - is it just Luther's demeanour?

 

At the end of Fallen Angels, Luther tells Zahariel, that he has heard Horus turned on the Emperor (pg 406). I think Grey Angel takes place in the 8 months Zahariel was in a comma or before based upon what Luther knew and when he knew it.

Probably, 8 months is a long time to be out of things, and when he woke up Luther had word of power drawn on his skin, there was no mention of this tiny detail in Grey Angel.

 

The description of Luther in Grey Angel does not suggest his skin is particularly visible for examination.

There was torch light, plenty for a sharp eyed Astartes like Loken, who was looking for any sign he could get to help him make his choice. At 13:43 Luther removes his hood to show his face. Loken looks him over in detail and sees a face he has seen before.

[vette114]

Alright some of you Dark Angel experts I need a little clarification, what exactly can't the "character" who helps Qruze and Loken be forgiven?

 

 

[Carach]

he is already among the fallen. he's going to be deemed a traitor regardless, probably to both sides. 

[Aegnor]

Alright some of you Dark Angel experts I need a little clarification, what exactly can't the "character" who helps Qruze and Loken be forgiven?

He's been a party to killing his brothers. That is a line that he hadn't crossed to that point and had been able to rationalise his assistance to Malcador/whatever it was he was doing with his loyalty to his brothers and Legion. The events of Grey Angel see him forced to make a choice between his two sets of duty/loyalty to a degree that he had not previously had to make.

 

The use of term 'forgiven' is a bit of foreshadowing reference for the audience's benefit, I think.

[Brother dean]

Alright some of you Dark Angel experts I need a little clarification, what exactly can't the "character" who helps Qruze and Loken be forgiven?

He sanctioned  a killing of a fellow Dark Angel by Cruze with the Stalker bolter, In the catacombs.... 

 

He is betraying his Legion and commander (Luther) by allowing prisoners/spies out of the fortress.  If nothing else he wont be able to forgive himself for breaking vows to the Legion and Luther.

[vette114]

Gotcha kind of like Horus "blooding" his traitors at isstvan, Grey Angel is a great story I have listened several times. I also liked the voice at the beginning saying the silent warrior is the true face of history.

 

To me it's clear the Lion put him there on purpose. A no name to be cypher sounds like he was hand picked on purpose.

[Brother dean]

Lord Cypher, To be the last knight alive from that Heretical Order (forgot the name) and given the mantle of Cypher by the Lion...  The Lion must have seen some truth in him somewhere and kept him as a "naysmith" and more enlightened member of the Legion.  Cypher had to be aware of things that the general line troops did not have access to and would have been aware of the "bigger picture" and what was going on with Luthor...