Dreadclaw question(s).

[Bearingtheword]

Hang on a minute, if someone after a friendly game asks you not to use fw stuff that makes them a jerk? :wallbash:

 

I don't use fw stuff myself, it seems to be either totally crap or overpowered, with no middle ground, and makes gw pricing seem balanced and well thought out (with the exception of fw epic stuff, which is weirdly just as cheap if not cheaper than gw.) now I will admit to being an older player, and I always ask my opponents permission even if I field a special character, because I'd rather have a fun game than completely trounce my opponent. As someone said above its good sportsmanship, and if you act like a jerk about it people won't play you. Simple as that....

 

No, that's not what was said. What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books, and that if someone is going to throw a big stink and refuse to play you because your army includes the aforementioned FW units, then they are probably not going to have been worth playing against anyway. Meaning that if they throw a temper tantrum about it, they likely have a personality that isn't going to be conducive to a fun, friendly game in the first place. FW has gotten much better over the years at balancing units, so the big disparity that used to exist is gone, imho.

 

~BtW

[hornywingythingy]

Really? I thought most if not all major tournaments still banned fw stuff? It can't be too balanced if T.O. Around the world agree on banning it? Admittedly, most still are being funny about 6th, so possibly not the best example, but still, you see my point?

 

I'm not sure I like the idea of fw becoming more mainstream gw, it smacks a little too much of pay to have an advantage, which admittedly gw is already heading towards with the power creep, and the new units added to dexes invalidating old units. I like the idea of fw as producing unique models for armies, and they have made some amazing models (the warhammer exalted vermin lord is probably my favourite) but as much as these models rock the rules either suck (the vermin lord, he is too expensive by far) or seem overpowered.

[incinerator950]

Hang on a minute, if someone after a friendly game asks you not to use fw stuff that makes them a jerk? :)

 

I don't use fw stuff myself, it seems to be either totally crap or overpowered, with no middle ground, and makes gw pricing seem balanced and well thought out (with the exception of fw epic stuff, which is weirdly just as cheap if not cheaper than gw.) now I will admit to being an older player, and I always ask my opponents permission even if I field a special character, because I'd rather have a fun game than completely trounce my opponent. As someone said above its good sportsmanship, and if you act like a jerk about it people won't play you. Simple as that....

 

No, that's not what was said. What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books, and that if someone is going to throw a big stink and refuse to play you because your army includes the aforementioned FW units, then they are probably not going to have been worth playing against anyway. Meaning that if they throw a temper tantrum about it, they likely have a personality that isn't going to be conducive to a fun, friendly game in the first place. FW has gotten much better over the years at balancing units, so the big disparity that used to exist is gone, imho.

 

~BtW

lol

[the jeske]

FW has gotten much better over the years at balancing units, so the big disparity that used to exist is gone, imho.

let me check . the Blood raven FAQ was last month , the chaos dwarfs were 2011. the FnP devis were what 2011 too ?

Also by disparity what do you mean . marine on marine games . Because If a nid player or sob player would walk up and say that he doesnt want FW to be played because it gives an even greater edge to my GK/SW/IG/marines , while at the same time giving him nothing then I dont see this is as whining .

What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books,

FW can stamp its products the way it wants. Rule book still says that that to play the game you need , tape , terrain , models , a codex and dice. No FW mentioned in the rule book .

 

then they are probably not going to have been worth playing against anyway.

I had a game like this in Berlin Germany just before I got shiped out . wanted to have one or two quick games . my opponent said he is playing SM[forgot to added that by SM he means SW] then proceded to plop down 2 castus rams with ally 3 vendetta SW army against 1999 pts of nids . I had tons of fun playing that game .

[Bearingtheword]

FW has gotten much better over the years at balancing units, so the big disparity that used to exist is gone, imho.

let me check . the Blood raven FAQ was last month , the chaos dwarfs were 2011. the FnP devis were what 2011 too ?

Also by disparity what do you mean . marine on marine games . Because If a nid player or sob player would walk up and say that he doesnt want FW to be played because it gives an even greater edge to my GK/SW/IG/marines , while at the same time giving him nothing then I dont see this is as whining .

Sisters need some help badly, no denying that. But with the new allied rules nothing is stopping them from adding the IG units as allies now. Is it a good solution to their problems? No, but it is an option for them. Nids: Well we all know your thoughts on Nids, but others seem to think they are doing ok, so there are differing opinions there.

 

What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books,

FW can stamp its products the way it wants. Rule book still says that that to play the game you need , tape , terrain , models , a codex and dice. No FW mentioned in the rule book .

Falls under both models and rulebook/codices.

 

then they are probably not going to have been worth playing against anyway.

I had a game like this in Berlin Germany just before I got shiped out . wanted to have one or two quick games . my opponent said he is playing SM[forgot to added that by SM he means SW] then proceded to plop down 2 castus rams with ally 3 vendetta SW army against 1999 pts of nids . I had tons of fun playing that game .

Of course you had no fun, because you did not win. You come across as a WAAC guy, so it's not surprising. Most WAAC players forget the two most important rules of the game constantly. 1) It's a game, so have fun and 2) The "Rule of Cool"

 

We have already established that we come from two very different backgrounds and have two very different playstyles. I can have fun getting tabled, as well as when I win, because I play for fun. I love the cinematic theme that has been gone for in 6th edition, as when I play that's what I am envisioning. I play "fluffy" armies, units and lists. I love the "Rule of Cool". I don't have a psychological need to win every single time I play. You'll never find me playing in a tournament, cause I have nothing to prove.

 

I love that FW is there as a supplement, and I love that they have been sanctioned as "legal" by GW. It adds flavour to the game. It adds cinema to the game and most importantly it adds diversity to the game.

 

~BtW

[The Colossus]

"snip"

What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books,

FW can stamp its products the way it wants. Rule book still says that that to play the game you need , tape , terrain , models , a codex and dice. No FW mentioned in the rule book .

"snip"

 

It does in fact. Page 383. In the campaigns bit. Nothing about them being non-official, or needing to ask permission.

 

I wouldn't bring a Titan to a pick up game though. :D

[Bearingtheword]

Thanks Colossus, I thought I had read it in there somewhere but could not find it when I was writing my response.

 

~BtW

 

I wouldn't bring a titan to a pick up game either...unless it was an Apoc game (as they are stamped "Apocalypse" rather than "40k approved...) ;)

 

~BtW

[dswanick]

"snip"

What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books,

FW can stamp its products the way it wants. Rule book still says that that to play the game you need , tape , terrain , models , a codex and dice. No FW mentioned in the rule book .

"snip"

 

It does in fact. Page 383. In the campaigns bit. Nothing about them being non-official, or needing to ask permission.

 

I wouldn't bring a Titan to a pick up game though. ;)

And on the preceding pages are detailed Apocalypse, City Fight, Planetstrike, and Spearhead - so by your logic I can throw down my IG Spearhead or Reaver Titan Maniple without "opponent's consent", so long as I "inform" them and have all needed Forge World books handy...

[incinerator950]

Settle out guys, not worth arguing about the legality of overpriced Resin models to vanilla overpriced plastic ones.

[Bearingtheword]

"snip"

What I stated was that you no longer have to ask your opponents permission to use those FW units that are stamped "40k Approved" in the IA books,

FW can stamp its products the way it wants. Rule book still says that that to play the game you need , tape , terrain , models , a codex and dice. No FW mentioned in the rule book .

"snip"

 

It does in fact. Page 383. In the campaigns bit. Nothing about them being non-official, or needing to ask permission.

 

I wouldn't bring a Titan to a pick up game though. ;)

And on the preceding pages are detailed Apocalypse, City Fight, Planetstrike, and Spearhead - so by your logic I can throw down my IG Spearhead or Reaver Titan Maniple without "opponent's consent", so long as I "inform" them and have all needed Forge World books handy...

 

READING COMPREHENSION FAIL

 

Let me try to explain it again...... FW "stamps" it's units with one of two stamps..."40k Approved" and "Apocalypse"..... If you showed up to a regular "40k" game and wanted to use an "Apocalypse" stamped unit ( such as the two you mentioned above) then anyone in their right mind would say "Uh, no!".... But if someone shows up with a unit that is "40k Approved" stamped, like the particular unit we are talking about-- the Dreadclaw, then it would be perfectly legal in a regular 40k game.....Get it now?

 

~BtW

[hornywingythingy]

But still, surely we can all agree its polite to ask your opponents permission first? Otherwise it feels underhanded, personally I want to have a fun game, and I want whoever wins to win because of better tactics/list building/dice rolls, not because they pulled an underhand if legal stunt. For the record I inform my opponent if I take allies or special characters, because its polite and shows you respect your opponent.

[dswanick]

READING COMPREHENSION FAIL

 

Let me try to explain it again...... FW "stamps" it's units with one of two stamps..."40k Approved" and "Apocalypse"..... If you showed up to a regular "40k" game and wanted to use an "Apocalypse" stamped unit ( such as the two you mentioned above) then anyone in their right mind would say "Uh, no!".... But if someone shows up with a unit that is "40k Approved" stamped, like the particular unit we are talking about-- the Dreadclaw, then it would be perfectly legal in a regular 40k game.....Get it now?

 

~BtW

Logic fail.

 

Warhammer 40,000 is a game published by Games Workshop.

"Official" Warhammer 40,000 is played according ot the rules found in the Rulebook published by Games Workshop.

The Official Rulebook states that to play you use the Rulebook, your Codex (published by Games Workshop), templates and markers (produced Games Workshop), and dice and a tape measure.

 

You claim that Forge World (a wholy owned subsidiary) can somehow claim that their rules are "official" on behalf of Games Workshop without a similar statement from Games Workshop. And you state that that means you do not have to have opponent's consent to use them.

You point ot Pg383, where Games Workshop describes expansion information on Imperial Armour books claiming that this makes Forge World rules "official".

I point out that those same pages also describe Apocalypse, City Fight, Planetstrike, and Spearhead - thus by consistant application of your "logic" should render them as "official" and not needing opponent's consent to use.

 

Sorry charlie, but Warhammer 40,000 is not a mandate. People can choose to play with everything Games Workshop, Forge World, and Black Library has every published as "official" or they can choose only those expansions they want to play with, or they can choose no expansions at all and only play a core rules game.

Calling people "whiners" because they choose to play the game differently them how you choose to play the game is illogical, selfish, and "whinning". And your arrogant attachment to your point of view alone is the reason why I'm blocking you.

[incinerator950]

Ladies, you're both pretty.

[Excessus]

This thread is quickly closing in on being as ridiculously retarded as the "Looking at" power weapons and modeling for advantage? thread over at whineseer...

 

...and you don't want to be compared to warseer, do you? :(

[incinerator950]

Or the Bioware Social Network.

[Bearingtheword]

But still, surely we can all agree its polite to ask your opponents permission first? Otherwise it feels underhanded, personally I want to have a fun game, and I want whoever wins to win because of better tactics/list building/dice rolls, not because they pulled an underhand if legal stunt. For the record I inform my opponent if I take allies or special characters, because its polite and shows you respect your opponent.

 

 

I fully agree with you here, it is polite, but it's not necessary is all I am getting at.....I just take umbrage with the fact the fact that people still cling to the old "FW isn't legal" BS that went out the window years ago. I always have a copy of my lists for my opponent to review before a game and I expect to be able to look at theirs. I fully expect them to ask questions about a unit they may not have seen before or to review the rules on it, and expect the same. If I start pulling out my Elysians and drop my Tauros' and my Vultures next to my Valkyries or Vendettas, and the player throws a fit, then that gives me a clue upfront to their personality and how the game is likely to have gone in the first place. So if they decline to play me over that then it's no skin off my teeth.

 

The supplements are there to make the game more fun and interesting. It gets stale playing the same 6 missions over and over again, so I have no problem with City Fight, Planetstrike, Battle Missions, Spearhead, or any of the FW stuff. And for the life of me I just can't understand all the hostility toward them, and towards those of us who enjoy using them. If you want to play tournament style, rolling a d6 for the same 6 missions over and over for your games, more power to ya. If your gonna turn down a game because your opponent runs an Elysian Drop Troops List, using models he paid for (both in cash and in points to make his list), or wants to play a Planetstrike mission, then to me you are a tool. Why be scared of a supplement? I just don't get it. People try to scream balance is an issue, but you still run into that with certain lists already that don't take FW units.

 

Like I said before, if your gonna bring an "Apoc Only" unit to a non apoc game then there is an issue there (unless of course you work it out with your opponent), but to bring a standard "40k approved" model like a contemptor dred, a decimator, a vulture gunship, a tauros, special character or a dreadclaw, I just don't see the problem. Whatever....I'm done trying to convince the bullheaded...

 

~BtW

[*Furyou Miko]

Warhammer 40,000 is a game published by Games Workshop.

"Official" Warhammer 40,000 is played according ot the rules found in the Rulebook published by Games Workshop.

The Official Rulebook states that to play you use the Rulebook, your Codex (published by Games Workshop), templates and markers (produced Games Workshop), and dice and a tape measure.

 

You claim that Forge World (a wholy owned subsidiary) can somehow claim that their rules are "official" on behalf of Games Workshop without a similar statement from Games Workshop. And you state that that means you do not have to have opponent's consent to use them.

You point ot Pg383, where Games Workshop describes expansion information on Imperial Armour books claiming that this makes Forge World rules "official".

I point out that those same pages also describe Apocalypse, City Fight, Planetstrike, and Spearhead - thus by consistant application of your "logic" should render them as "official" and not needing opponent's consent to use.

 

Just thought I'd throw this in - Forge World books are published by Games Workshop now, not by Forge World or an independent publishing company.

[loku]

On agust 1st I make this question on FW face wall:

 

Hi, I have doubt on how to use a Dreadclaw in normal games of 40K 6th edition.

 

In the new vehicles updates the Dreadclaw gain: HP: 3 Type Fl, H, T USR: Assault Vehicle, but it dosen't explain how to use!

 

They enter via deepstrike by Drop Pod Assault rule (SM dex: p 69), and the unit inside can not assault if lands in that turn.

 

When they enter via DP, how they are considered: Zooming or hover move?

 

And their respond:

 

Forge World Hi, I had a quick chat to one of the writers to try and clarify the rules. It arrives like a Drop pod on the first turn it deploys. In the subsequent turns you can choose to either Hover or Zoom.

 

--------

 

So you can embark 10 models in power armour / 1 dreadnought / 5 termis.

 

The DC come in the first turn via deep strike and land (is no necesary desembark)... Then the oponent can shoot at the DC normaly and assault it. When is time for the DC owner to move he can choose how it move: Hover or Zoom!

 

For me the DC is a really cheap land raider!!! But you have to be smart to use it. Because a speed lock (zooming) can be very dangerous!!!

 

So you have to be carefull with the dificul terrain and distance of landing!

 

I been thinking on landing about 18" - 24" from the objetive. (land, move hover 12", desembark 6" and assault 3"-12")

[Bearingtheword]

On agust 1st I make this question on FW face wall:

 

Hi, I have doubt on how to use a Dreadclaw in normal games of 40K 6th edition.

 

In the new vehicles updates the Dreadclaw gain: HP: 3 Type Fl, H, T USR: Assault Vehicle, but it dosen't explain how to use!

 

They enter via deepstrike by Drop Pod Assault rule (SM dex: p 69), and the unit inside can not assault if lands in that turn.

 

When they enter via DP, how they are considered: Zooming or hover move?

 

And their respond:

 

Forge World Hi, I had a quick chat to one of the writers to try and clarify the rules. It arrives like a Drop pod on the first turn it deploys. In the subsequent turns you can choose to either Hover or Zoom.

 

--------

 

So you can embark 10 models in power armour / 1 dreadnought / 5 termis.

 

The DC come in the first turn via deep strike and land (is no necesary desembark)... Then the oponent can shoot at the DC normaly and assault it. When is time for the DC owner to move he can choose how it move: Hover or Zoom!

 

For me the DC is a really cheap land raider!!! But you have to be smart to use it. Because a speed lock (zooming) can be very dangerous!!!

 

So you have to be carefull with the dificul terrain and distance of landing!

 

I been thinking on landing about 18" - 24" from the objetive. (land, move hover 12", desembark 6" and assault 3"-12")

 

 

Thank you for that Ioku....It's good to know...and certainly not how I had been playing mine. Now I know how we are supposed to do it. Thank you once again! :)

 

 

~BtW

[hornywingythingy]

Or the Bioware Social Network.

 

Lol!

 

Nerf/buff all the things! The store is trolling me! Bw servers are awful/you need to fwd the ports!

 

 

@ bearing the word

 

Cool, I must admit I'm not keen on playing with fw models in a random game, but I have only refused to play two people in 12 years, both were people who had tried to cheat me twice before. (everyone gets one free strike, but if its twice, you aren't just making a mistake, you are cheating.)

 

Those rules for the dreadclaw seem a bit barmy if you ask me.

[loku]

Thank you for that Ioku....It's good to know...and certainly not how I had been playing mine. Now I know how we are supposed to do it. Thank you once again! :P

 

 

~BtW

 

Your welcome! I am fan of Dreadclaws XD

[the jeske]

Why be scared of a supplement? I just don't get it.

scared is a wrong word here , unbalanced and imperial biased . and people dont like it because FW makes stuff like this

 

45 pts per model for a stealth jump infantry 3W and t5 , void blade ,str 6 melta gun armed with a unit size being 3-9. So for less then 150 pts you get 9 wounds with t5 with 3 special weapons . now take 9 raptors add an icon of nurgle and check how many points they cost.

[Vesem]

On agust 1st I make this question on FW face wall:

 

Hi, I have doubt on how to use a Dreadclaw in normal games of 40K 6th edition.

 

In the new vehicles updates the Dreadclaw gain: HP: 3 Type Fl, H, T USR: Assault Vehicle, but it dosen't explain how to use!

 

They enter via deepstrike by Drop Pod Assault rule (SM dex: p 69), and the unit inside can not assault if lands in that turn.

 

When they enter via DP, how they are considered: Zooming or hover move?

 

And their respond:

 

Forge World Hi, I had a quick chat to one of the writers to try and clarify the rules. It arrives like a Drop pod on the first turn it deploys. In the subsequent turns you can choose to either Hover or Zoom.

 

--------

 

So you can embark 10 models in power armour / 1 dreadnought / 5 termis.

 

The DC come in the first turn via deep strike and land (is no necesary desembark)... Then the oponent can shoot at the DC normaly and assault it. When is time for the DC owner to move he can choose how it move: Hover or Zoom!

 

For me the DC is a really cheap land raider!!! But you have to be smart to use it. Because a speed lock (zooming) can be very dangerous!!!

 

So you have to be carefull with the dificul terrain and distance of landing!

 

I been thinking on landing about 18" - 24" from the objetive. (land, move hover 12", desembark 6" and assault 3"-12")

 

Thanks for the information, but I am still really confused on how the vehicle works. I think what might help clarify it some is where is it getting the drop pod assault from to come in on the first turn? People around me are having a horible habit of being rule nazi's. I had someone explaining to me today how my drop pod with assault vehicle had to come in after the second turn and I couldn't assault out of it whereas his dreadnought drop pod he could not only assault out of but do it on the first turn with the same rules as mine. So I would love a place in a book where I could show him that I could do either of those.

[Vesper]

I don't use fw stuff myself, it seems to be either totally crap or overpowered, with no middle ground

 

Well, you just perfectly described GW's game design policy.

and makes gw pricing seem balanced and well thought out

 

Haha, no.