'Nemesis" Psychic Discipline

[L30n1d4s]

So, with Divination being so good (especially Prescience) on cheap Inquisitors and/or Coteaz, it seems as if the GK Librarian and his ability to "buy" multiple GK Psychic powers for almost nothing has taken a back seat in 6th edition. That said, I believe there is still a definitely a place for GK Libbys and their powers in an effective Grey Knight army in 6th. Let's take a look at what the Librarian can do if he uses default GK powers:

 

1 - Hammerhand - Still excellent, since it can stack with Hammerhand from basic GK units and also because, unlike pretty much any other buff to S in 6th, it is added BEFORE multipliers, meaning S10 Daemonhammers, etc, which is a big deal, especially with the changes to FNP and bikers getting their toughness bonus as their 'true' toughness. Also, because it is a buff on a friendly unit, Psychic Hoods and Deny the Witch can't stop it.

 

2 - Dark Excommunication - Still pretty bad, unless fighting Daemons. That said, CSM and Chaos Daemons are both getting new rules here, so maybe it will become a lot more useful, we'll see.

 

3 - Might of Titan - Another power that is still excellent, especially since it can be cast on a unit besides the one the Libby is in. This is the GK version of Chainfists and can make them ridiculous at taking down vehicles. Again, a buff to a friendly unit, so the only ways to stop it are items like Runes of Warding, Rune Priests Runic Weapons, or rules like Nids Shadow in the Warp (i.e. no Psychic Hood, no DtW, etc.)

 

4 - Quicksilver - Continuing the list, another standout that takes solid GK units and bumps them up into a superior class of close-combat units. Not only does this strike first before almost anything, but it can be cast on powerful nearby units like Dreadknights or Dreadnoughts.... imagine a Dreadknight with 5 S10, Ap2 attacks on the charge, all hitting at Initiative 10. Also, this power is especially useful for characters in a unit who fight in a challenge with any enemy character... even your humble Justicar will strike before Lelith Hesparax or Eldar Phoenix Lords or Abbadon.

 

5 - Sanctuary - Yet another great power, causing difficult and dangerous terrain checks for all units assaulting friendly units that are within 12" of the Librarian. Aside from slowing the enemy, possibly denying charges, and possibly inflicting casualties via Dangerous Terrain Tests, it causes units without assault grenades to be reduced to initiative 1 (heres looking at you Terminators, Incubi, Genestealers, etc.). Combined with the new Overwatch rules, this makes GK units even better at holding ground and weathering the charge from enemy units.

 

6 - The Shrouding - While not as crazy as last edition, where this often gave unitss a 3+ cover save, it still gives most units in cover a 4+ cover save, which is still very good. Don't forget, this can be used on vehicles too, increasing the capability of smoke launchers, vehicle cover saves, and even Jink saves for the Storm Raven (if it goes flat out, the SR gets a 4+ Jink, plus stealth, which is a 3+ cover save). Given the increased fragility of vehicles, this can be a real boon for GK mech armies... imagine a Land Raider with a 3+ cover save due to Terrain + Shrouding. Finally, combined with a Techmarine and Ruins, you can still given a unit holding the ruins (and potentially an objective) a 2+ cover save, which is great for the shooty Henchman squad or that Strike Squad trying to hold on by its fingernails.

 

7 - The Summoning - This power is situational, but has the potential to really increase your force's mobility. Perhaps one of the best ways to do this is to put the Libby in a SR and have it move in Zoom mode (using Evade if required as well). A libby with a Henchman warband containing a Mystic, riding in a Storm Raven, can come out of reserve and basically cross the entire table in a single turn. That next turn, the Libby can summon any GK unit (or vehicle with Warp Stabilization Fields) to within 6" of him with no scatter. The Zooming SR is very difficult to shoot down, especially if the enemy has no Skyfire units and the Libby casts Shrouding in conjunction with Jink (6's to hit, penentration roll, and 3+ cover save all to get through). Particularly good on units like Purifiers with 4 Incinerators or Henchman with meltas, to bring them in and light up a key enemy unit.

 

8 - Vortex of Doom - Still has the drawback of self-inflicted wounds if the Psychic Test is failed, but with the new rules for templates in 6th, this is signifcantly more dangerous to vehicles. Also, since 2+ armor is stronger in 6th, this provides GKs with a strong shooting attack against Terminators, MegaNobz, etc.

 

9 - Smite - Still not that great, but as above, does provide some AP2 firepower that GKs traditionally lack and which is more important in this edition, given the nerf to power/force weapons with AP3.

 

10 - Warp Rift - I think this was underated in 5th edition and still is a bit. Being able to straight up remove models, with only a single initiative test, is potentially very devestating power. Also, any vehicles taking an automatic Penetrating Hit is not to be underestimated either.... done correctly, the template could hit multiple vehicles, at the minimum stripping a hull point from them and making them unable to shoot and, at best, destroying them.

[Falstaff]

Not really sure how much to add. Thats a fairly good guide for above. If I take a Librarian I always view the following as mandatory:

 

The Summoning - Insurance policy incase help is needed.

Might of Titan - POWER

The shrouding - No opponent likes this.

 

If I have the points I will get:

 

Sanctuary - Nice

Warp Rift - yeah, as above, much overlooked.

 

I'd only get the others if I have points going begging, but have never known myself to take:

 

Dark Excommunication - The demon will probably die anyway.

Smite - Needs to offer more.

[Grand Master Caloth]

Summoning does not work with Beacons, so the unit would indeed still scatter.

 

Warp rift, I never see used, but I LOVE that power. My Librarian has used it to devestating effect on many occassions, including against a Farseer and his Wraithguard unit, as well as destroying multiple vehicles in one fell template blast. I agree, it is vastly underrated.

[Zeratul29]

Indeed, Carnifexes, necrons, and orks all fail hardcore against warprift, Might of titan and quicksilver is also awesome.

 

So the only 5 psychic powers work taking:

Might of titan

Quicksilver

Warprift

the shrouding (still potent, but seems less effective because of the stormraven

Sanctuary(not as worth it, because you can take armour saves against dangerous terrain now)

[Chairman_woo]

Summoning does not work with Beacons, so the unit would indeed still scatter.

 

Has that recently been faq'd or something because it definately seems like it would work..... I know teleport homers don't but locator beacons just say "arive by deep strike". Summoning is placing the unit via deep strike rules no? Or is this a case of summoning is not really deep strike it just references its rules? (plausible I suppose not really looked at it much before).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, OP pretty much summed it up

 

The four 'core' powers I feel should always be taken on the Libby are;

 

'Might': Stacks with Hammerhand, breaks tanks in half, nuff said

'Shrouding': We like our cover saves against AP3 and AP2, and on vehicles this is relevant as well (either with smoke or in terrain)

'Sanctuary': Dangerous Terrain has been nerfed, but stalling charges is still awesome, and forcing anyone without assault grenades down to I1 just makes our halberds better

'Warp Rift': It auto-hits, ignores cover, forces Initiative test or die, auto-pens vehicles...its such a huge improvement over his storm bolter, and so cheap

 

The optional extras are:

'Quicksilver': All our combat units have halberds anyway (Paladins, Purifiers, Terminators), and honestly it won't make Strikes hit any harder, its tiny range also limits DK buffing

'Summoning': Wonky rules, ineffectual FAQ's, and functionally you should just use better positioning to achieve the same. It is amusing for pulling units out of unfavourable combats etc, or bringing a bunch of firepower suddenly to the Librarian's location. It can find use, but you need teleport homers/Mystics and good positioning to do so.

 

Never ever relevant:

'Dark Excommunication': This power is so bad, even Coteaz swaps out for it. Mildly amusing against newbie Daemons players (but then again, our army is amusingly overpowered even against veterans with Daemon armies), never matters against anything else.

[Vash]

'Summoning': Wonky rules, ineffectual FAQ's, and functionally you should just use better positioning to achieve the same. It is amusing for pulling units out of unfavourable combats etc, or bringing a bunch of firepower suddenly to the Librarian's location. It can find use, but you need teleport homers/Mystics and good positioning to do so.

 

Sad part is, Teleport homers doesnt work with The summoning.

Servo-skulls is what we need to use along with Mystics I guess.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Dark Excommunication - The demon will probably die anyway.

 

Well removing that 2++ save versus Force Weapons from that greater daemon will make a huge difference. :devil:

Consider yDark Excomunication removes most of the more powerful "daemon traits" making them easier preys for our GK.

[thade]

I'm convinced (and, I suspect, you all are as well) that the Dark Excommunication power was designed specifically with the 6th Ed Daemon and C:CSM changes in mind...the changes we haven't seen yet.

 

That power (and the Psilencer, of all things) may yet become very valuable to us. We'll see. @_@ *ominous music*

[worloch]

The four 'core' powers I feel should always be taken on the Libby are;

 

'Might': Stacks with Hammerhand, breaks tanks in half, nuff said

'Shrouding': We like our cover saves against AP3 and AP2, and on vehicles this is relevant as well (either with smoke or in terrain)

'Sanctuary': Dangerous Terrain has been nerfed, but stalling charges is still awesome, and forcing anyone without assault grenades down to I1 just makes our halberds better

'Warp Rift': It auto-hits, ignores cover, forces Initiative test or die, auto-pens vehicles...its such a huge improvement over his storm bolter, and so cheap

That pretty much fits how I always kit my Libby out, with the addition of the Summoning at times. My only critique is your comment on Sanctuary - forcing opponents without Assault Grenades to In 1 doesn't make Halberds better, it makes them unnecessary in that instance :) Doesn't mean I wouldn't take Sanctuary, or that I wouldn't take Halberds - just that sometimes one makes the other obsolete in certain cases.

 

 

I'm convinced (and, I suspect, you all are as well) that the Dark Excommunication power was designed specifically with the 6th Ed Daemon and C:CSM changes in mind...the changes we haven't seen yet.

 

That power (and the Psilencer, of all things) may yet become very valuable to us. We'll see. @_@ *ominous music*

Not that it might not happen that way, but still, I can't see myself including Dark Excommunication or the Psilencer in my lists - they would still suck against everyone else, and I prefer to try not to tailor. /shrug I guess it would be nice if they were more useful than their competition in some cases instead of basically in no cases.

[thade]

I'm convinced (and, I suspect, you all are as well) that the Dark Excommunication power was designed specifically with the 6th Ed Daemon and C:CSM changes in mind...the changes we haven't seen yet.

 

That power (and the Psilencer, of all things) may yet become very valuable to us. We'll see. @_@ *ominous music*

Not that it might not happen that way, but still, I can't see myself including Dark Excommunication or the Psilencer in my lists - they would still suck against everyone else, and I prefer to try not to tailor. /shrug I guess it would be nice if they were more useful than their competition in some cases instead of basically in no cases.

I also prefer not to tailor, but there are some cases where it's warranted: for instance, when you and your opponent decide to tailor to kill one another. ;) I'm also guessing/hoping that the new Demon codex some how exploits GK lack of numbers or other weaknesses (maybe even some nasty counter-psyker stuff) to justify our using our specifically anti-demon stuff against them.

[worloch]

Just so long as their options against us are as specific as our options against them ;)

[thade]

Just so long as their options against us are as specific as our options against them ;)

They used to be, though those options were actually built into our codex instead of theirs. For instance, some of their units would just spawn again after being wiped out, if they were playing against GK.

 

EDIT: typo

[Falstaff]

Yes I recall how the old demon rules worked in the Demonhunters codex. It made for a near unwinable game. Dark excommunication could see light of day if chaos armies take over and become the new meta.

[thade]

Yes I recall how the old demon rules worked in the Demonhunters codex. It made for a near unwinable game.

My hope is that any changes to demons and C:CSM that justify our taking specifically anti-demon stuff are not quite so over-the-top as they were before. :) Here's hoping.

[worloch]

Yeah, I played with the old Daemonhunters codex - my local gaming group just houseruled that bit out. Every mission against Daemons turning in to Meatgrinder was not fun.

 

I guess we'll wait and see what happens - that's all we can do anyhow - but I'm not optimistic that they are specifically looking to balance the new Chaos books against the GK specific anti-daemon stuff.

[Inquisitor Boreal]

1 - Hammerhand - Still excellent, since it can stack with Hammerhand from basic GK units and also because, unlike pretty much any other buff to S in 6th, it is added BEFORE multipliers, meaning S10 Daemonhammers, etc, which is a big deal, especially with the changes to FNP and bikers getting their toughness bonus as their 'true' toughness. Also, because it is a buff on a friendly unit, Psychic Hoods and Deny the Witch can't stop it.

 

3 - Might of Titan - Another power that is still excellent, especially since it can be cast on a unit besides the one the Libby is in. This is the GK version of Chainfists and can make them ridiculous at taking down vehicles. Again, a buff to a friendly unit, so the only ways to stop it are items like Runes of Warding, Rune Priests Runic Weapons, or rules like Nids Shadow in the Warp (i.e. no Psychic Hood, no DtW, etc.)

 

This caught my eyes.. Afaik, Psychic Hood can nullify any psychic power cast regardless of the target so it would surely be able to stop Hammerhand and MoT? If not, we've been playing all wrong and I've got a few should've-been-dead Blood Angels to hunt down!

 

Edit: Right, nevermind, haven't played a single game of 6th ed. due to upcoming 5th ed. tournament so I'm still stuck in 5th ed. :(

[thade]

:tu: Yep. Psychic Hoods were changed quite a bit this edition.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, psychic hoods are kinda irrelevant now. Its only if you're a Mastery level higher than the enemy psyker that they matter (5+ Deny is still terrible, 4+ is sorta reliable). Aegis is a must better defense (PsyDreads are even more relevant now).

 

On the subject of the psilencer and 'Dark Excommunication', I'd never see the need for either of them. Psycannons and even incinerators annhilate Daemons are more efficiently (psycannon wounds infantry on 2+ or 3+, kills Soulgrinders on Rends, Princes and GD's get wounded on 4's anyway). 'Dark Excommunication' is very limited, but it will be useful for getting rid of 'Blessing' on a Bloodthirster (so our force weapons go through). For take-all-comers lists though, I've got better power options on a Librarian. Dreadknights come with 'DE' anyway.

[thade]

Psychic Hoods are nice for GK but not nearly as nice as they are for the other marine armies. (My marines use them extensively. Getting that 4+ around is nice.)

[Inquisitor Fox]

The new psychic hoods make my Inquisitor sad... ^_^

 

I still point out that Might of Titan on a Dreadknight with a Greatsword in Smash mode against any vehicle anywhere is rather scary. Almost worth painting them green, skipping the Greatsword or any shooting weapons, putting a samurai-esque back banner on him that says "You won't like me when I'm angry..." and seeing how many people get the joke.