RoguePanda Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hi everyone, I am trying to get myself back into 40k at the moment, and I am torn between loyalists or chaos marines. After reading a book about medieval alchemists I have had a idea swirling round in my head for a Space Marine Chapter that echoes some of what I read. The problem is, at the moment they are balanced on the edge of a coin. They could be loyalist, or chaos renegades. I am trying to work out which version to do. Unfortunately models of both types interest me, so I can't go simply on visuals or models I prefer right now. I am hoping I can ask for people's thoughts and input. I won't go into great details about the background ideas at the moment, as they are still bouncing round my servo skull, but here are some of the things I want to use: Core Ideas: Searching for artefacts from the dark age of technology (specifically a mechanical device known as the Aeon Stone, and a gene sequencing mechanic known as the Vitae Protocol, loosely based on the aims of real world alchemy) Dedicated and disciplined in their approach - all knowledge gets gathered and used in experiments Probably very firepower orientated overall Secretive to the point of being patronising - others simply don't understand enough Here then is the problem - which way to take the idea? If I go with the loyalist chapters, there are the techmarines, things like the master of the forge and conversion beamers as toys, and I can really focus on making them a tech heavy army with lots of tanks. Their position in the imperium would be a combination of roving companies trying to hunt up ancient tech, with the Ad Mech wary of their intentions. If I go chaos, I can access things like Obliterators, possessed marines or cult troops as genetic experiments, and plenty of combi weapons. I would probably go down the route of making them Slaanesh troops - their quest for perfection was already well begun as loyalists and the events that cast them out led them straight into the Dark Princes clutches. They would act as both a rogue chapter and as a sort of source of dark technology and altered troops for other warbands - possibly using Fabius bile as a stand in for the corrupted leader For colour scheme I would do half and half split, purple on one side and silver on the other. I would probably want to add little touches to make them a little more knightly than normal (helmet conversions or adding little shields). Sorry for the long first post - what I really need is ideas and input please, be it modelling and painting, fluff, or anything to help me work out which way to turn. Many thanks in advance to everyone! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlunu Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Altough a traitor myself, I think that it would be better for your force to be loyalist. Thoughts on core values and why they point to loyalist: 1.Searching for artefacts from the dark age of technology (specifically a mechanical device known as the Aeon Stone, and a gene sequencing mechanic known as the Vitae Protocol, loosely based on the aims of real world alchemy). Renegades tend to either be part of one of the big "kill everything" focused warbands or too busy surviving for such quests. 2.Dedicated and disciplined in their approach - all knowledge gets gathered and used in experiments. Disciplined and systematic chaos, meh. 3.Probably very firepower orientated overall. Cheesecannon and stormbolters vs reaper autocannon and twin-linked bolter. And the rest. :devil: 4.Secretive to the point of being patronising - others simply don't understand enough. Could easily go either way, but lots of Imperial/Mechanicus establishments are secretive way past the point of paranoia. Particularly about tech. Chaos tends to be ostentatious displays of power and dedication. What I'm getting at is that whether your chapter is actually excommunicate or not, the loyalist codex would probably fit it far more smoothly. Playing as Alpha Legion myself I know that it's quite hard to play a C:CSM force and not have gibbering close-combat freaks and a tendancy to do things "just because" pop up into everyone's minds. In fact, for the very reasons mentioned above (minus no.1 and the second part of no.2 obviously), I find myself using the "It isn't just an Ultramarines codex" codex increasingly often. And my guys have been having fun times with deamons and slaughtering Imperial dogs for ten millenia. :P PS. Your first post isn't too long by any means, most topics in this forum start with a text-wall IA. This was delightfully brief. PPS. Not that I don't want to see a large and thorough IA on your spagyricists, I am very interested. Will they be displaying the black, white, yellow, red/purple stripes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Renegades is also an option. Although they would still be considered Traitors by the rest of the Imperium, for whatever reason, you can still have them try to carry out their duty - a la the A-Team. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord-Rakszan Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 They sound like the Relictors chapter to me. Linky. I feel like this is an idea heard all to often, sorry. Not to say its a bad idea, I like the sort of obsetion they have and even considered doing a similar aproach. Oh and also, Renagade. Not Loyalist, not traitor. Renagade. Good luck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlunu Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 They sound like the Relictors chapter to me.Linky. I feel like this is an idea heard all to often, sorry. Not to say its a bad idea, I like the sort of obsetion they have and even considered doing a similar aproach. Oh and also, Renagade. Not Loyalist, not traitor. Renagade. Good luck. IMHO that would be one of the worst things to do with a slightly cliché chapter. "Banhammered by an Inquisitor for their odd habits" beats fem marines, cursed founding and lost in the warp all in one. Can't see why an Inquisitor would kick them, and can't see why they would just drop the massive resources of the Imperium. Could do the polar opposite of the "Excommunicate but still work for the good of the Imperium" that crops up so often, they are completely focused on their own thing and ignore trifles such as nearby invasions, but have not been excommunicated because: if they're doing not harm, why not keep them? Might even have (very secret) contact with renegades/chaos to barter for help in things that they cannot do themselves, info etc. Also, thinking about your fluff already, that quest would be sooo much easier if they are still seen as good astartes, I can imagine they would go quite a way to keep everyone on side. PS. Am starting to feel oddly attached to this unnamed chapter, hope it goes well. PPS. Are you decided on the æsthetics yet? I feel that a look at a finished model in all his paint could help you to decide, some schemes feel chaosy, some loyalist. More precisely knightly heraldic stuff looks "goody" showy offy golden trim and aggressive colours looks "baddy". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Argent Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I like the idea of Loyalist but not really working for the good of the Imperium as a whole. The main example or inspiration I can think of here is the Dark Angels. Sure, they may rock up to help you but its almost always for their own means and ends and if they get a sniff their target, or a clue to the targets wher abouts are around, then you can kiss your ally goodbye. I personally like the idea over-all, its good to see a chapter along this line being develpoed around a specific idea, like the Alchemists of days long since passed. Stick with it and see where it goes. If there is one thing that my time on Liber has taught me is that even the most simple and basic an idea, when properly mulled over and developed, can become the most awesome idea for a chapter out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLiege Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Like Silver Phoenix and Orlunu, I would have the chapter be a loyalist. I say this because, as Orlunu has stated before, you probably need the help of the Ad Mechs to "help you grant assess to certain things or info". I also, like Orlunu, don't see the Inquisitors have them place as a traitor for that kind of activity, just look at the Relictors who collects Chaos weapons to defeat chaos itself. They might say something along the line of "Oh you know what we do they them for certain missions or something". By and by, I, in my opinion, see the Ad Mechs creating them to help them find certain "relics" and "Artefacts" so their relationship, to me, are great to the extend of the Iron Hands and their successor. Just like many of the people who have made a DIY chapter, You have to always ask the question:Why? Just to help you get started: Why is the chapter so obsessed with collecting these artefacts from the dark age of Tech.? Do they think by doing this, the Chapter is 'helping' the Imperium? How did the chapter have this obsession? What is their relationships like with over Chapters, the ADmechs, Inquisitions? and etc.. BTW, have you decided on their geneseed or are you still thinking about it? Hopes this helps out. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoguePanda Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks everyone for the input so far. I am still bouncing ideas round in my head, but I am coming to the same conclusion as everyone, that a loyalist force lets me work to the theme I have in mind. I think I might make their relationship with the Mechanicus a bit more ambivalent - on one hand the Mechanicus are happy that they have allies, but are nervous because the chapter has a different approach to technology than they do. The chapter see's technology, however powerful, less as something to venerate and more something that is used to help mankind perfect itself. I am not sure I am explaining it well, but I'll see if I can work on this some more. Thanks for interest and ideas everyone, it means a lot! Any more ideas or input please throw them in. On a side note, I have managed to find a source for some of the old fanatic press articles in PDF, including a rather tasty fan creation, Corpus Auxilia Mechanicus. I am digesting it now, and I'll see if this influences what I do next. I think I will be plundering the inquisitorial archives for ideas :lol: Wish me luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258271-looking-for-help-with-a-chapter-idea-loyalist-or-renegade/#findComment-3141477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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