Heresy era Armour

[Sviar]

Is everyone agreed that the Armour colour should be Black with white Decals and red eye lenses? I know a few people are confused about armour colour because of the cover of Decent of Angels and the HH art book.

 

I plan to do 10 models based on the cover art on Descent of Angels soon and have a mix of MkII and MKIII armour to try it on. This could be the start of a new force - bank manager willing :wallbash:

 

First off, that is an good looking painting. Now to the topic. Does anyone know if the white shoulder armour is accurate fluff wise.

[Captain Semper]

I guess, FW might clear everything up - or not! ;)

 

Pre-heresy markings have not been fully codified to my knowledge - there are images all over the place but really I think this is a great opportunity to streamline some basic facts while allowing room for personal peresrences (green / white shoulder pads or other more "esoteric" insiginia)... I'm really excited about this rumor - really am! :confused:

[Raven Angel]

Well consider number of markings used for a codex chapter today. Now expand that to cover 100 times that many squads and companies. There is room for almost any variation of of markings as long as the Legion and other important symbols are incorporated into them. Anyone ever think that the current colors for at least some of the 2nd founding chapters where their where their original chapter shoulder colors in the Legion or like with the BT the personal heraldry of their chapter master?

[Bryan Blaire]

I think that's a pretty logical concept, Raven Angel, as opposed to the more common "Someone drew them from a hat" concept I've heard some players espousing.

 

I think the HH stuff will give a chance for there to be some even more awesome armies on the table than even 40K gives you options to have.

[Onisuzume]

Personally, I'd say Mk II, IV and V for tacticals, Mk III for assault, and Mk IV, V and VI for veterans.

Mark VI beaky armor was introduced during the Heresy, It is introduced in one of the later HH novels to date, but I don't want to say so as not to spoil it for anyone who wants to read the books spoiler-free.

 

Then why not use this?

 

[Captain Semper]

I think the HH stuff will give a chance for there to be some even more awesome armies on the table than even 40K gives you options to have.

 

This^

 

The possibilities are limitless - with support of FW quality (books+minis) it's a very exciting prospect!

[Brother Immolator]

I use Red Winged swords...

 

Guess we will see what FW decides the symbol should be ;)

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...ngels_black.jpg

 

Check out the symbol.

 

1$ as a bounty to anyone who can replicate the slogan of the bolter on an actual model!

[Raven Angel]

I think that's a pretty logical concept, Raven Angel, as opposed to the more common "Someone drew them from a hat" concept I've heard some players espousing.

 

I think the HH stuff will give a chance for there to be some even more awesome armies on the table than even 40K gives you options to have.

 

Agreed, and it gives a lot new ways to further theme out an army.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I use Red Winged swords...

 

Guess we will see what FW decides the symbol should be :blush:

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...ngels_black.jpg

 

Check out the symbol.

 

1$ as a bounty to anyone who can replicate the slogan of the bolter on an actual model!

 

That...is an epic slogan ;)

[Cactus]

Where did the idea that pre-Heresy Dark Angels had a white chapter badge come from? Is it just the covers of the Horus Heresy novels? It's been red since the Rogue Trader days and was red in the Index Astartes article.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...ngels_black.jpg

 

Check out the symbol.

 

1$ as a bounty to anyone who can replicate the slogan of the bolter on an actual model!

I might take that challenge. I have some of those RTB01 models. :D

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Where did the idea that pre-Heresy Dark Angels had a white chapter badge come from? Is it just the covers of the Horus Heresy novels? It's been red since the Rogue Trader days and was red in the Index Astartes article.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...ngels_black.jpg

 

Check out the symbol.

 

1$ as a bounty to anyone who can replicate the slogan of the bolter on an actual model!

I might take that challenge. I have some of those RTB01 models. :D

 

I thought the Index Astartes showed a White Badge? If they showed Red, then this has made my day :)

[Captain Semper]

No. Index Astartes had the Legion symbol in white. And the armour all black - no red/yellow stripe in the helmet... In fact, as Bryan pointed out in a discussion long ago, the Consecrators resemble the RT-era DA paint pattern but it seems GW is moving away from the black/red combo in favor of all black with white symbol. Of course we are talking about RT era stuff and a single IA article of more than 10 years ago. I say FW has a lot of room to establish the new norm. Which might very well allow for both... :D

[Cactus]

Gaaagh! I've just dug out that issue of White Dwarf and it's white! I must be losing my mind because I don't remember ever seeing a white badge on black armour. :D

 

Page 168 of Rogue Trader shows black armour with red markings so I'll go with that one. The older the source the more reliable, right? :)

[Brother Immolator]

I might take that challenge. I have some of those RTB01 models. :D

 

I have something better, blame Semper and his ETL challenges for the delay...

[Onisuzume]

No. Index Astartes had the Legion symbol in white. And the armour all black - no red/yellow stripe in the helmet... In fact, as Bryan pointed out in a discussion long ago, the Consecrators resemble the RT-era DA paint pattern but it seems GW is moving away from the black/red combo in favor of all black with white symbol. Of course we are talking about RT era stuff and a single IA article of more than 10 years ago. I say FW has a lot of room to establish the new norm. Which might very well allow for both... ;)

Granted, but the Consecrators-style version does look more striking.

Also, the helmet stripe depended on the marine's rank, from what I recall.

As can be seen here.

On the other hand, you also had this back in those days.

Adds to the challenge, I guess. :)

[Brother Immolator]

Because the flesh tearers were part of the Legiones astartes :devil:

 

I have those rank badges from the old space crusade XD

[Captain Semper]

Granted, but the Consecrators-style version does look more striking.

 

Agreed! And my Consecratos do not have their Chapter Symbol on yet! Which means if FW in their forthcoming HH series bring the red stripe back, I'm gonna have some heresy era DAs ready in period armour too! Hahahaha!

 

Let's hope they do not re-introduce the horrible modern day Chevrons that old art depicted! :)

[Grotsmasha]

I think what people forget is that Rogue Trader ISN'T pre heresy, it M41. The red symbols have been retconned/moved to the Deathwing. It's a shame, the red on black is much more striking than the white.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[EPK]

Well consider number of markings used for a codex chapter today. Now expand that to cover 100 times that many squads and companies. There is room for almost any variation of of markings as long as the Legion and other important symbols are incorporated into them. Anyone ever think that the current colors for at least some of the 2nd founding chapters where their where their original chapter shoulder colors in the Legion or like with the BT the personal heraldry of their chapter master?

I agree, I hope FW isn't super rigid in it's explanations. For instance, I like the variation of that white inlay of the shoulder pad. That may have been specific to just one chapter or even just a company within the entire Legion (what are the terms they used most recently for a DA legion "chapter"?). Perhaps it's a nod to as specific commander or captain/master.

 

 

I think what people forget is that Rogue Trader ISN'T pre heresy, it M41. The red symbols have been retconned/moved to the Deathwing. It's a shame, the red on black is much more striking than the white.

Though this may be technically true, I think as fluff as expanded and been defined (and could be totally off here), most people take the old RT era weapons, vehicles, etc. as Crusade/Heresy era items as far as placing them in a timeline goes. However, the recorded events in the RT days (that haven't been retconned), would still be M41.

[Captain Semper]

Well consider number of markings used for a codex chapter today. Now expand that to cover 100 times that many squads and companies. There is room for almost any variation of of markings as long as the Legion and other important symbols are incorporated into them. Anyone ever think that the current colors for at least some of the 2nd founding chapters where their where their original chapter shoulder colors in the Legion or like with the BT the personal heraldry of their chapter master?

 

I agree, I hope FW isn't super rigid in it's explanations. For instance, I like the variation of that white inlay of the shoulder pad. That may have been specific to just one chapter or even just a company within the entire Legion (what are the terms they used most recently for a DA legion "chapter"?). Perhaps it's a nod to as specific commander or captain/master.

 

Oh, i'm sure they'd allow for tons of variations! If Imperial Armour books is anything to go by...

[Brother Immolator]

Sorry reposting in a while

[Raven Angel]

I think what people forget is that Rogue Trader ISN'T pre heresy, it M41. The red symbols have been retconned/moved to the Deathwing. It's a shame, the red on black is much more striking than the white.

Though this may be technically true, I think as fluff as expanded and been defined (and could be totally off here), most people take the old RT era weapons, vehicles, etc. as Crusade/Heresy era items as far as placing them in a timeline goes. However, the recorded events in the RT days (that haven't been retconned), would still be M41.

 

That's how I understand it and it is definitely the primes FW used when making the new versions of the RT tanks.

[Cactus]

I think what people forget is that Rogue Trader ISN'T pre heresy, it M41. The red symbols have been retconned/moved to the Deathwing. It's a shame, the red on black is much more striking than the white.

Though this may be technically true, I think as fluff as expanded and been defined (and could be totally off here), most people take the old RT era weapons, vehicles, etc. as Crusade/Heresy era items as far as placing them in a timeline goes. However, the recorded events in the RT days (that haven't been retconned), would still be M41.

EPK, for me it's more specific than that. Following the infamous colouring error and the ret-con explanation that the Dark Angels changed their armour from black to green shortly after the Horus Heresy, I take any images of black-armoured Dark Angels infantry to be pre-heresy. The beakie armour, shoulder-mounted heavy weapons etc from the Rogue Trader era are, to me at least, from the 41st millennium but earlier than 'current'. Just don't mention the Space Wolves. Their Rogue Trader material is far more contradictory than our black armour!

 

The whole thing is a bit of a mess really but fundamentally it's about what colours you use to paint your toy soldiers so there is no wrong answer. I look forward to my favourite astartes getting the glossy Imperial Armour treatment regardless of the colours used. ^_^