C:SM - Getting a Captain to close combat.

[UltraTacSgt]

I have a small force and play 1000pts and lower games, mostly 750pts. I run an Artificer/Relic Blade Captain, whom I love, and I usually roll him with a 5 man Tac combat squad with a PW sgt and flamer.

 

Currently my strategy has been to put the Captain and his escort squad in a Rhino and charging up a flank to disembark within an inch or so of the chosen target, then hose them down with Rapid Fire, the flame template, and maybe a frag grenade. Then I weather the return fire and shoot/charge next turn if I am not charged before then. There isn't a lot of finesse to this approach save for choosing a target/weak point in my enemies force, but it has been working pretty well for me so far, in my last two games my Captain has slain the enemy warlord in challenges and in the most recent game he slew a Sgt in a challenge, then the enemy Captain, then killed off a 7 man tac squad all on his own over three turns.

I deviate from the aforementioned strategy if the enemy I'm facing is better equipped for melee and is going to try and close with me, in which case I use the Captain and his mounted crew to intercept any enemy vanguard elements and generally keep my mostly ranged force safe to keep putting rounds down range every turn.

 

My question is two part.

 

Part one: Is there a more effective way to deliver my Captain to the fray aside from punching the enemy unit in the face with a loaded Rhino? I'm not huge on the randomness of reserves and deep striking so a Rhino/Razorback seems like my best option to give high likelihood of reliable delivery on target.

 

Part two: Tac Marines are obviously not the best in CC and the squad the Captain rolls with rarely survives the initial assault to do much damage. They certainly are effective in the initial disembark and blast away phase, but after that they generally get wiped out. Would a modestly equipped command squad do the job better? If not the command squad is there another option for an escort for the Captain or is a Tac combat squad a happy medium for a reasonably priced and reasonably effective escort?

 

The list I generally run with is mostly static shooting with a Sternguard squad roaming midrange and the Captain squad serving the mobile assault role.

Captain - AA/RB

Tacsx10 - Flamer/PC, PW sgt. Sometimes PG instead of Flamer.

Scoutsx5 - Snipers/HB

Sternguardx5 - usually stock, sometimes add combi's

Devastatorsx6 - 4xML, +2 bullet catchers

And of course my trusty Rhino

[FlamingDeth]

You might consider some CC scouts. They can't purchase a dedicated rhino but they can jack another squads on the first turn. They're cheaper and have more attacks and they're still scoring units to boot. A little less hardy but it's stol not bad and gives you a few points to play around with.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Have you considered mounting your Captain on a bike? For the same cost as your Rhino he can be bike mounted, giving him T5, 12" movement, relentless, twin bolters and hammer of wrath.

 

More importantly it enables mounted assault, meaning for the same points cost as your tac squad you could have a bike squad to escort him into battle. The bikes will be able to assault faster than from a rhino, and be able to shoot on the way in. Tac squads and bike squads will never be combat troops, and at 1000pt you don't have enough for a decent command squad, bikes or no. What bike squads can do is unleash a barrage of plasma/melta fire, then finish units in combat. T5 makes a big difference in keeping them alive.

 

Compared to a jump pack (the only other option you have for faster assault besides a Land Raider), a bike can use its increased movement in all phases of the turn, has better firepower and survivability and can be fielded as troops in C:SM.

[DarkGuard]

The other options for transporting units are the Drop Pod and the Land Raider variants. The Drop Pod will enable a Turn 2 charge if you scatter OK, while the Land Raiders may do the same thing, but more importantly keep your unit safe until they charge. But the Drop Pod is a lot cheaper.

 

Otherwise bikes and jump packs for getting around faster on foot.

 

As for the combat unit, I'd go for the Command squad, remember they have FnP, which also means they can soak up firepower better. The Company Champion, a power fist, a power weapon/lightning claw and a storm shield or two would be a good shout. If not them, then take a 5 man Assault squad with flamer and combat weapon in a Rhino. They get more attacks in assault than your Tactical squad. Or just stick him with your Sternguard, who are just as good in assault as Assault Marines but better at shooting.

[Captain Idaho]

I think the simple answer to the questions of the OP is run the Captain in his unit of Sternguard and use the Tactical squad in conjunction of them when making an attack/counter.

 

If you do this, looking at your usual load out, a bolter with Hellfire shells will help too. Maybe even a Combi-Bolter.

[rubix41]

For small point games, isn't Jump Pack more feasible? I know Red_Lost said bike (and I am all for it) but, at 1000pts and under, it can really eat into the points value since when I am running at 1000pts on bikes a squad of bikes and a captain is already 230pts already.

[thade]

I'm a huge fan of having my melee-machine Vanguard with a Librarian in a Land Raider...and my CC monster of a Captain with a tac squad in a Rhino/R'back. People sweat both melee machines and have to choose against the ostensibly easier to take out tac squad or the burly Land Raider.

 

That said, that is a lot of points. (Modest Vanguard weighs in between 250 to 300, the Captain's half that.) If you throw a JP or a bike on the captain and still put him with a tac squad, they'll be on foot and his speed only serves to help him switch what unit he's with. (This isn't so bad, especially since foot-slogging tacticals are more viable with the changes to Rapid Fire shooting.) You could also give him a bike unit or an assault team to hop around with. (If he's a Bike Captain in the vanilla dex, your Bike Squad counts as Troops, IIRC.) Assault teams benefit from better mobility and are expendable (they're not Scoring) but that doesn't mean throw them away, haha. Counter-charge to cover your tacticals (which can still be mounted in Rhinos and in the front).

 

While you may feel your current method lacks finesse, it's still effective. :) Marine tactics work - not because they're ninja - but because each marine is effectively a walking tank.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Auxilary grenade launchers work in conjunction with a bolter with hellfire rounds, giving your Captain some more oomph before his relic blading :lol: He aught to be able to kill one or two by shooting before having to charge in that way, and lets him play with a Sternguard unit or a command squad from a drop pod into the enemy center pretty well. Also very Space Marine-ey to go right for their throat with two or three real hard hitting units while the rest of your army advances with the time bought by your veterans.

 

At small games, take your two troops, your Captain, a unit of something (Sternguard or Command squad) throw them in a drop pod and Rhino your other troops. Throw the Drop pod right at the biggest, most scary thing your opponent has, open fire. Charge when able. Chances are he'll be more worried now about the squad that's right in his face than the advancing Rhinos of troops which are now much lower on his priority list. This helps mess his plan up because a big giant monkey wrench of doom got thrown into it, you're killing things with your elite troops right on turn 1, and you're absorbing attention and firepower away from your slightly more delicate but scoring Troops choices. Win-win-win.

 

Then again I have a somewhat cavalier approach to things...

[thade]

Then again I have a somewhat cavalier approach to things...

What self respecting marine player would NOT have a cavalier approach to things? <3

[Inquisitor Fox]

What self respecting marine player would NOT have a cavalier approach to things? <3

The kind that was a Sororitas/Inquisition player first? Granted I started with Bretonnian knights, but we're talking 40k here... :D Then again, Sororitas just put their Faith in the Emperor and go for it, Bretonnians figure you know what they're going to do, you know where they're going to do it, so they just do it anyway, really the only subtlety and sneakiness I get is from the Inquisitor and for years I ran a close combat retinue in a Land Raider ;) There is a sneakiness to doing the obvious though, and it's a great technique once you master it.

 

In all seriousness though, the Drop Pod will deploy on turn 1 due to Drop Pod Assault. It has almost no randomness due to it's autocorrecting guidance thingie, so will land right about where you want it to, directly next to his big scary thing. You then unload your big scary thing and blow him to pieces much sooner than he was expecting. In fact if you're sneaky you can even position the drop pod to block some of his movment/Line of Sight corridors and control his army's options. Remember it's a head game, you want him not thinking about what he wants to do to you, but thinking about what you just did to him. Make him have knee-jerk reactions and take control of the game. Once he is doing what you want him to do, the game is yours.

 

If you're worried and have the points to spare, a second drop pod with reinforcements is a good investment. They'll arrive as per normal reserves, but that's not a huge downside really with the revamped reserves table. Say.. Captain with Command Squad on turn 1, unit of Sternguard on reserves. Charge the Captain and his squad in right away, then let the Sternguard come in later to mop up whatever is left with their fantastic shooting, while you use Tacticals in Rhinos/Razorbacks to score.

 

Alternatively, if you have 3 units in drop pods, two of them deploy on turn 1, the last becomes regular reserves. You could throw down a Captain with Command squad, unit of Sternguard on turn 1 in the enemies face (hah, have fun dealing with that!), then put one troops choice of Tacticals in a drop pod as a reserve/late game scoring unit. Have your other unit of Tacticals (or say, Sniper Scout Squad with camo-cloaks and sniper rifles deployed in cover) hold a home objective. Smile silently and eeriely like the man-in-black as you destroy the enemy army. :tu:

[UltraTacSgt]

I appreciate the advice everyone.

 

I haven't really put a lot of thought into drop pods as I have always been more of the type to keep my force coherent and well supported by each other. The pods always seemed to have guys kind of off on their own unsupported and vulnerable to getting overwhelmed. Then again maybe multiple drop pods would fix that. I've always liked the idea of dropping a MM/Flamer DCCW Dread onto an enemy line and imagining the enemies scattering before the nigh indestructible machine. I might have to get some blue plastic cups for proxy drop pods and try out some pod tactics.