are the sanguinor/mephiston/deathcompany tycho characters?

[Pascalnz]

as the title suggests, I can't find anything stating they are actually characters.. it leads to some interesting thoughts on stuff, like not being able to accept challenges and the like.... surely it's just waitin gfo rth enext faq?

[dadieau]

IMO anything with it's own stat line is a charater. Since the 3 charaters you mentioned are unique they are Special charaters.

[Kabal_of_Baal]

In your opinion that might be true. But look at the special rules. Captains, Chaplains, Librarians, and Sang Priests have the "independent character" special rule. Looking at BA specific, truly unique, named characters, Astorath, Dante, and Corbulo also have the "independent character" special rule.

 

In contrast, the Sanguinor, Mephiston, and DC Tycho don't have the same rule under their entries. If all that was required to be termed an independant cahracter was to have a unique name, wouldn't these three also have the same label as Astorath, Dante, and Corbulo?

 

Now, one could argue that this is the same accedental exemption committed three times, but I think that's a stretch. Fluff-wise, in my mind, these three characters - while Dante and Astorath might be super-human - are a bit non-human; heavenly incarnations, reanimated victims of the genetic flaw, captains fallen permanent victim to that flaw. I think the exemption of the "independent character" label was intentional, and these three characters are one-man units.

[SevenExxes]

Page 63 of the rule book states under the Character Types sub-heading "Other characters, such as Mephiston of the Blood Angels, fight as units on their own. They are either mighty, or feared enough by their own kind, that they don't take to the battlefield with other warriors. Regardless of their potenncy, all follow the rules for characters"

 

Page 64 states, under Heroic Stand sub-heading "A unit that consists only as a single model cannot refuse a challenge. He's got nowhere to hide"

 

I can say for certain that The Sanguinor is a beast in challenges.

[HERO]

So is Mephiston... no one wants to get enthralled for free in challenges.

[SevenExxes]

So is Mephiston... no one wants to get enthralled for free in challenges.

 

Yeah, I don't use Mephiston. No invulnerable save.

[HERO]

So is Mephiston... no one wants to get enthralled for free in challenges.

 

Yeah, I don't use Mephiston. No invulnerable save.

 

2+ armor save got so much better this edition, and challenges were made to keep Mephiston safe.

The lack of Invul is hardly noticeable now.

[Drunken Angel]

So is Mephiston... no one wants to get enthralled for free in challenges.

 

Yeah, I don't use Mephiston. No invulnerable save.

 

2+ armor save got so much better this edition, and challenges were made to keep Mephiston safe.

The lack of Invul is hardly noticeable now.

 

Agreed its pretty hard to find anything that can instant death Mephiston on T6 now and he usually has a 4+ deny the witch roll on anything close enough to do it. If there is a handy priest edging up to watch the challenge and Meph is taking feel no pain from that he is golden.

[Brother Landrain]

Challenges make Meph, Sang, and Crazy Tycho a lot more survivable.

You pretty much always want to make a challenge in combat, as it will do one of two things.

 

1) prevent all the other models in the enemy squad from being able to attack if accepted. While usually regular troops are not very good at hitting and wounding Meph/Sang, the simple volume of attacks possible make 6's and 1's inevitable...

2) If chalenge is denied, prevents that character from attacking Meph/Sang, as usually only character, IC or Sarge type models have the weapons needed to really hurt Meph/Sang this is an added benefit, as that character will not be able to strike in combat.

 

This also makes Meph/Sang much better at destroying units in just 1/2 turns. As if one of them challenges and kills a 2 or 3 wound character in a challenge, that enemy unit has a good chance of breaking at -2/-3 to Ld. and can be easilly destroyed in a sweeping advance due to their high init values.

 

Also, if a challenge is not accepted, Meph/Sang get to make precision strikes on any 6's to hit. This allows them to pick off any enemy models with weapons that would be able to hurt them easier, such as power fists.

 

All in all, because of these changes, I am considering using both Meph and Sang more often.

They still have vulnerability when they are out in the open, but their survivability against being swamped by massive numbers of troops has gone up considerably.

[DominicJ]

Landrin

 

Not sure I agree there.

If you kill a BA Captain, chances are, you would have killed 5 or 6 assault marines.

[Brother Landrain]

Landrin

 

Not sure I agree there.

If you kill a BA Captain, chances are, you would have killed 5 or 6 assault marines.

 

The point is, that the enemy either gets to use all of his possible attacks (minus the character), or only the character. usually the characters are the only ones with high percentages of hurting Meph/Sang. But if charged by a unit of 15 boys, that could be 45+ dice rolled, thats a lot of possible 6's. Instead of the Nob with the Power claw, who probably dies before he even gets to strike in the challenge due to init. Also, a challenge is a good way to waste an enemies FC or LoH if charged by a large squad, or CA if you charge.

 

I strongly feel that a challenge is always the way to go for Meph/Sang in combat.

 

And especially against oh, say a whole squad of Paladins?

If you can kill the Paladin in a challenge Now that squad tests on a ld of 7...

And you can challenge that squad down to the last man.

Although, Paladins would be dumb to accept the challenge... (but thats one less attacker)

[Black_Sky]

I would much rather mephiston hit the squad with a 5-6 combat resolution advantage, rather than take down a single character.

 

There are exceptions, of course.

2+ being the primary.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

You have to remember challenges for pulling punches.

 

Meph charges and challenges-- if opponent accepts, then kill him then you are protected from shooting. Then kill the squad in his assault phase then you're free to repeat. lol

[Morticon]

assuming your opponent is not smart enough to figure this out!

 

Other than that, yeh, i think im finding that challenges with mephy are the way to go!

[Venemox]

Mephy's transfixing Gaze has been extremely useful in challenges.

[Demoulius]

Is Mephi effected by the mind scarabs from Necrons? PLayed a game yesterday and his lord had a 2+ save, mind scarabs and a warscythe. In the total of about 5 or 6 turns that challenges were fought I managed to inflict one wound on the bastard, seen 2 cahracters kill themselves (PF sarg and a PW priest) and see my captain lose 2 of his 3 wounds. I almost tabled him and won out in the end but the necron overlord is rediculus in challenges...

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I almost tabled him and won out in the end but the necron overlord is rediculus in challenges...

 

 

Yea I don't see 'melee Necrons' being super effective--- maybe Destoyer Lords with Wraiths but DC can roll that unit through weight of attacks. Idk idk.... what I need to do is play a game versus a competent Necron player. The only Necrons in 6th ed that I've played against were terrible, trying to use the innate awesomeness of Necron-rules to make up for their lack of tactical decision making.

 

For challenges and Necrons, those mindshackle scarabs are why I can see myself simply declining challenges. Or feeding him a naked-sergeant. Idk, I'm becoming more of a fan for Storm-shield Sgts too.... hmm.

[Demoulius]

I almost tabled him and won out in the end but the necron overlord is rediculus in challenges...

 

 

Yea I don't see 'melee Necrons' being super effective--- maybe Destoyer Lords with Wraiths but DC can roll that unit through weight of attacks. Idk idk.... what I need to do is play a game versus a competent Necron player. The only Necrons in 6th ed that I've played against were terrible, trying to use the innate awesomeness of Necron-rules to make up for their lack of tactical decision making.

 

For challenges and Necrons, those mindshackle scarabs are why I can see myself simply declining challenges. Or feeding him a naked-sergeant. Idk, I'm becoming more of a fan for Storm-shield Sgts too.... hmm.

Well inn some cases I couldnt refuse the challenge (one turn, my unit was composed of a sargeant, 1 wound captain and priest for example) so sarcrificed the PF in favor of the characters having more attacks. Lost the PF (killed himself -_-) but the characters ravaged his unit and ran his unit down consolidation (or however its called now)

 

in cases where you cant refuse the challenge (single wound chars like Mephi) i suggest avoiding the lords like the plague. Rolling over 10 on 3D6 isent hard tbh... and Mephi isent a character you want hitting himself, even with only D3 attacks and 2+ save....

[CitadelArmyGuy]

in cases where you cant refuse the challenge (single wound chars like Mephi) i suggest avoiding the lords like the plague. Rolling over 10 on 3D6 isent hard tbh... and Mephi isent a character you want hitting himself, even with only D3 attacks and 2+ save....

 

Is that all it is? Shoot, Meph can easily survive hitting himself. The warscythe is the dangerous bit... I guess if getting charged thats 4 attacks, ~2hits, ~1.33 wounds (more if Destoyer Lord though, Preferred Enemy). Then if Meph survives, the Mindshackle goes away right? They only work for the first round of any combat?

 

Eh... esp with the Necron Lord running 2+ armor, in a vacuum the challenge will go the way of the Overlord. But it's doubtful the Overlord can finish Meph off in one-round of combat-- and that means a rescue-charge, swamp the unit and only good things from there.

 

Again, one character who fights well attached to units which are otherwise terrible in melee means I actually hope they come at me aggressively. In fact I'd probably hang Meph out in front as bait.

 

 

Ahhh me.... I truly think Necrons are awesome, but only in a shooting based army sense. Spamming Flyers or Medium Infantry whose guns can handle anything in the game means I *hope* they are 'wasting' points kitting out a Melee Lord. A smart player would just take more guns and capitalize on what they do best.

[Pascalnz]

if it's a unit of charging orcs, they will just decline your challenge and make 100+ attacks, then if he lives through it, they will challenge him in your turn, tying meph up for another round.

 

It must be a faq mistake but, those three guys aren't listed as characters. wraithlords are listed as charcters but dreadnouhgts arn't, meganobs arenot listed as characters but nob bikers are.

 

there's a case for them being like dreadnoughts instead of wraith lords. I'd say just make sure you and your opponent are aware of what rules you'll be playing them under during the match

[CitadelArmyGuy]

if it's a unit of charging orcs, they will just decline your challenge and make 100+ attacks, then if he lives through it, they will challenge him in your turn, tying meph up for another round.

 

It must be a faq mistake but, those three guys aren't listed as characters. wraithlords are listed as charcters but dreadnouhgts arn't, meganobs arenot listed as characters but nob bikers are.

 

there's a case for them being like dreadnoughts instead of wraith lords. I'd say just make sure you and your opponent are aware of what rules you'll be playing them under during the match

 

100 Ork attacks = about 0.926 wounds onto Mephiston (5+ to hit, 6+ to wound, 2+ to save). :)

 

Tarpitted for sure, which is the point you're making so no worries haha.

 

 

 

I think you would be very very hard pressed indeed to find a player who would not agree that all Special Named Characters are characters by the rulebook. As far as Dreadnoughts, well they are vehicles. Somehow most of the Monstrous Creatures were given the Character rule though, Dreadknights/Tyrants/Wraithlords etcetc. Rather....odd, but ok GW. I'll play your game.

[Pascalnz]

just to clear it up with the orcs, it's 4+ to hit 6 to wound then a 2+ save. so 1.5 wounds around about. fnp makes him better, but iron arm is always the sweetest:P

[CitadelArmyGuy]

just to clear it up with the orcs, it's 4+ to hit 6 to wound then a 2+ save. so 1.5 wounds around about. fnp makes him better, but iron arm is always the sweetest:P

 

Ahh, so it is. Mea Culpa. :)

 

He's only gonna get hit with 81 attacks (Nob, 3 special weaps) maximum anyhow (~1.125 wounds). Probably a lot less attacks than that too, since models outside 2" from a based-friendly don't swing.

 

Wait, Meph *did* charge, right? Because he's a 250pt model that is pinning a 230pt Unit in place. Tarpit works both ways-- and Meph charging them means they aren't advancing, and he can pull them off objectives too.

 

Don't wait for them to charge you- charge them and Deny them movement in their phase. And keep his Codex powers versus Orks-- you're gonna need Wings (probably) to avoid Meganobz potentially, and to make sure he hits the targets he wants to hit instead of bubblewrap. Biomancy is really solid here too though, so I suppose that could be sweet. Anyhow, Orks just hatehatehate our Lord of Death, especially with challenges now.