Beasts and Difficult terrain.

[Seahawk]

Yep! Good ol' GW...

 

I still stand by my argument that Jump Troops that use their packs to jump charge into combat do not move "through" difficult terrain and still get regular Initiative, which is balanced by the fact that they have to take a Dangerous Terrain test.

Well that's just not right, unfortunately ^_^. Whether you use the pack or not in the assault phase, you have to roll an assault distance, which still gets affected by difficult terrain. When you use the pack, you merely get to reroll it. Not only that, but your initiative is still dropped to 1 when you assault through Dangerous Terrain because as it says on page 90, "Dangerous terrain follows all the rules for difficult terrain." Basically, all dangerous terrain is also difficult terrain.

 

Or shortened: Dangerous terrain follows the rules for difficult terrain, which follows the rules on page 22, which says you may only attack at I1.

[Raeven]

Yep! Good ol' GW...

 

I still stand by my argument that Jump Troops that use their packs to jump charge into combat do not move "through" difficult terrain and still get regular Initiative, which is balanced by the fact that they have to take a Dangerous Terrain test.

Well that's just not right, unfortunately :lol:. Whether you use the pack or not in the assault phase, you have to roll an assault distance, which still gets affected by difficult terrain. When you use the pack, you merely get to reroll it. Not only that, but your initiative is still dropped to 1 when you assault through Dangerous Terrain because as it says on page 90, "Dangerous terrain follows all the rules for difficult terrain." Basically, all dangerous terrain is also difficult terrain.

 

Or shortened: Dangerous terrain follows the rules for difficult terrain, which follows the rules on page 22, which says you may only attack at I1.

 

 

Negative Ghostrider! Jump packs do not treat difficult terrain like dangerous terrain. That's Bikes. Jump packs move freely over all terrain. They only end or begin their move within terrain, which triggers a Dangerous Terrain test. Triggering a test is not the same as treating one type of terrain as another.

[dswanick]

Yep! Good ol' GW...

 

I still stand by my argument that Jump Troops that use their packs to jump charge into combat do not move "through" difficult terrain and still get regular Initiative, which is balanced by the fact that they have to take a Dangerous Terrain test.

Well that's just not right, unfortunately :D. Whether you use the pack or not in the assault phase, you have to roll an assault distance, which still gets affected by difficult terrain. When you use the pack, you merely get to reroll it. Not only that, but your initiative is still dropped to 1 when you assault through Dangerous Terrain because as it says on page 90, "Dangerous terrain follows all the rules for difficult terrain." Basically, all dangerous terrain is also difficult terrain.

 

Or shortened: Dangerous terrain follows the rules for difficult terrain, which follows the rules on page 22, which says you may only attack at I1.

 

 

Negative Ghostrider! Jump packs do not treat difficult terrain like dangerous terrain. That's Bikes. Jump packs move freely over all terrain. They only end or begin their move within terrain, which triggers a Dangerous Terrain test. Triggering a test is not the same as treating one type of terrain as another.

Yeah, actually, it is.

[Raeven]

Triggering a test is not the same as treating one type of terrain as another.

Yeah, actually, it is.

 

 

Can you back up that statement?

[Seahawk]

It's exactly the same. In any case, you've take a Dangerous terrain test, which follows the rules for difficult terrain as well, which means you're stuck at I1.

 

 

Granted, again GW fails and should have said "charges into and/or through".

 

I'll back it up with an example. Saying "can move over all other models and all terrain freely" means nothing in the assault phase, so long as you're landing in/on terrain. It's not the same as "are not slowed down by difficult terrain." That just means Bikes will never roll more than 2D6 for their charge for DT.

 

So, Jumpers can move freely over terrain. They're still going through it. Why? Here are the synonyms of "Through": about, by, clear, for the period, from beginning to end, in, in and out, in the middle, into, past, round, straight, throughout, within.

 

"Through" is equivalent to "into", and if you jump "into" terrain, it's the same as jumping "through" it. "Over" is an entirely separate thing that has no bearing, because if you've jumped "into/through" terrain, you take the test, and since it follows the rules for difficult terrain, you're reduced to I1.

[Raeven]

Ok.. So explain the inconsistency with Beasts. If triggering a test means you are affected by the entire rule, then why are Beasts at I1 when they are immune to the test?

[Seahawk]

They still went into/through it. If you don't test but go into/through, your initiative is affected. If you test and go into/through, your initiative is affected. Simple! :D

 

The initiative reduction doesn't require the taking of a test. The simple act of going into/through terrain does that.

[DarkGuard]

Triggering a test is not the same as treating one type of terrain as another.

Yeah, actually, it is.

 

 

Can you back up that statement?

 

From the BGB, page 90:

 

"Dangerous terrain follows all the rules for difficult terrain"

 

So if you move through dangerous terrain when assaulting you're reduced to I1, because that's the rules for difficult terrain.