Blood Ravens as successors

[Ordo Machinum]

I've heard about the Thousand Sons references, but is it really too far a stretch for the Blood Ravens to be Blood Angel successors?

 

Uber-psykery could be a result of feeling Sanguinas' pain and rage, couldn't it? C:BA's Black Rage could be applied to BR in this instance.

 

Didn't Flesh Tearers IA describe their Librarians as not only tasked with the compiling of the history, but also traveling the galaxy looking for long lost pieces of ancient knowledge and prophecy that could lead to a cure for their degenerative affliction and save the chapter? Or am I mixing IA sources?

 

I'm curious of your opinions as I am thinking of a BR force and using the C:BA.

 

Thanks.

[Cain Tiberius Kondrad]

Current C:BA page 54, paragraph 3.

 

There are other surviving Chapters whose names and traditions would suggest a connection with the Blood Angels - the Blood Swords and Blood Ravens amongst them - but these Chapters do not claim Sanguinius' lineage, truthfully or otherwise.

 

As far as using the C:BA for you Blood Ravens, I don't see a real problem with that. And anyone who does probably wouldn't be worth your time.

 

CTK

[JamesI]

Fluff answer. It is unlikely the Blood Ravens are BA successors.

 

Rules answer. You want to use Codex BA for Blood Ravens. Go ahead. Most players will be fine with it.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

There are numerous references throughout the fluff to the BA being one of the more psychically-active Chapters, so there's that too.

 

Like so many things though, there isn't a definitive answer. They (BR) may be BA successors, they may not be. I don't feel like there's a lot of value in going into it in any more depth than that because ultimately most of the 40k universe is what you make out of it. It's purposefully vague for that very reason.

[appiah4]

BR have no Red Thirst or Black Rage traits in any fluff so it's not even remotely likely.

[DominicJ]

I cringe whenever people talk about successors.

 

In my understanding, which may be wrong.

 

There was the first founding (which wasnt one event, but a long stream) in which the twenty legions were activated.

 

There was the second founding, in which the legions were split into chapters.

Creating successor chapters, identical in all but name (ten thousand years of isolation has created genetic difference)

 

the third founding, was not like thre second, in which a large formation was split in two.

Using the gene seed tithe and organ transplants between implantees, the imperium creates new space marines, that simply dont have 'a' parent chapter.

[Xenith]

Uber-psykery could be a result of feeling Sanguinas' pain and rage, couldn't it? C:BA's Black Rage could be applied to BR in this instance.

 

The BR have more librarians because they actively recruit psykers. Other chapters just have battle brothers that manifest powers.

 

Use codex BA if you want, but expect stern glances and a gentle ribbing from a player like myself as you try and explain death company, Baal predators, Special characters, sanguinary priests, the red thirst, and a friendship with Necrons.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I cringe whenever people talk about successors.

 

In my understanding, which may be wrong.

 

There was the first founding (which wasnt one event, but a long stream) in which the twenty legions were activated.

 

There was the second founding, in which the legions were split into chapters.

Creating successor chapters, identical in all but name (ten thousand years of isolation has created genetic difference)

 

the third founding, was not like thre second, in which a large formation was split in two.

Using the gene seed tithe and organ transplants between implantees, the imperium creates new space marines, that simply dont have 'a' parent chapter.

 

There've been about 28 Foundings now, or something like it. Basically, the First and Second Foundings happen as you describe them. The rest though, the High Lords declare a Founding, the Mechanicus procure up some geneseed, and Chapters get picked to act as the "parent" Chapter, providing an intial officer cadre to their "child" Chapter. For example the Astral Claws Chapter was the "parent" of the Tiger Claws Chapter.

 

As for the Blood Ravens being Blood Angel descendants, I find it almost impossibly unlikely, given that they display absolutely no signs of the Black Rage or Red Thirst, something that is a given in all BA successors. Hell, the Lamenters were the result of an attempt to "breed out" the Flaw, and that had massive side effects and didn't even work properly. For the Blood Ravens to display none of the signs associated with Sanguinius' geneseed means they're almost certainly not BA successors.

Regarding the psykers, Xenith is correct in that the Blood Ravens recruited from a world with a high amount of psykers. Geneseed has never been actually shown to cause Marines to become psychic anyway.

 

Personally, they're probably just another Chapter based on Ultramarine geneseed, like 90% of the other Chapters out there, or whatever the statistic is. Put simply, there's nothing to link them to the Blood Angels other than they've got the word "Blood" in their name. Hell, the Blood Angels codex even outright states they aren't successors, as shown by Cain Tiberius Kondrad. Of course, if you want to use the codex, then it's your decision. Just expect a few strange looks every so often, and the occasional fluff fanboy throwing a small tantrum.

[DominicJ]

I'm toying with using the sw codex for my blood angels

 

the only cba stuff i use are reclusiarchs, dc and assault troops, oh, and storm ravens

[Ordo Machinum]

Thank you all for your much appreciated opinions and advice.

 

I figured the fluff was against me, but I had to ask. I do prefer fluff to go with the codex, so I may put the BR on a back burner for now.

 

I'll move forward with a Flesh Tearers army when I get the C:BA.

 

Thanks again!

[DominicJ]

There've been about 28 Foundings now, or something like it. Basically, the First and Second Foundings happen as you describe them. The rest though, the High Lords declare a Founding, the Mechanicus procure up some geneseed, and Chapters get picked to act as the "parent" Chapter, providing an intial officer cadre to their "child" Chapter. For example the Astral Claws Chapter was the "parent" of the Tiger Claws Chapter.

 

I'm sure, back in the early 200's, there was a WD article on how new chapters are formed.

As you say, it starts, and ends, with slaves being implanted with the progenoid glands, but in between, there is organ donation.

 

**gets out Codex Imperialis for body part names**

 

So, for example, a slave is implanted with a BA progenoid, and another slave is implanted with a Space Wolf progenoid.

They develop into (geneticaly) a blood angel and a space wolf.

The Occulobe from each is surgicaly removed, and implanted in the other.

The Occulobe, along with all the other organs, releases strands of dna, and these are gathered by the two progenoids in the slaves, creating two progenoids that are mostly BA with a little SW, and two that are mostly SW with a little BA hybrid progenoid,

This is repeated over and over and over and over and over, with different organs and different chapters, until a stable and suitable marine is developed.

Once a stable and suitable progenoid is created, its harvested, implanted, two are harvested and implanted, then four, then 8, 16,32,64,128,256,512,1024

 

At which point a donor chapter provides experienced marnes, officers and ethos.

 

You would expect a BA donated command cadre to include reclusiarchs and sanguinary priests, but a power smurf cadre could still be left dealing with recruits who suffer the red thirst and black rage.

 

Or that was what I remember anyway.

 

And with 1000 chapters to choose from, maybe more if that doesnt include those gone isolationist or full on renegade, no one can seriously say you are wrong, and if they do, who cares?

[Cpt Codpiece]

the evidence given in the age of darkness, 'rebirth' is quite strong that the blood ravens are indeed based off the 1KS, the mark of the corvidae (as name suggests) is a raven, so the guy at the end of the book who dissapears just happend to have been corvidae.

 

corvidae were pregogs, they saw into the possible futures and could direct their tactics from their precognitions........ just like the librarius of the blood ravens are supposed to.

 

the only link to BA i see in the ravens is the colour and the 'blood' part.

 

but, with the coming of the new codex for chaos. you may be to pull off a nice pre heresy 1KS as they were red and white like BR, have the strong psykers. it would look cool too but you would be left without the cool 'new' gubbins like the storm talon etc

[Rabidweasel]

I firmly believe the Blood Ravens are indeed a thousand sons off shoot. They certainly have some form of Chaos breeding somewhere as the main fluff for the Blood Ravens is the DoW games on the PC. In the latest one Abaddon himself has "plans" for them, plus the thousands sons HH book does indeed point to the vision they had of a Black Raven.

 

However, on the tabletop, i'm one of those people who plays a Blood Raven army with the Blood Angels codex, why? Because i can! I tried using vanilla marines codex but i just didn't really get on with it.

[Cpt Codpiece]

However, on the tabletop, i'm one of those people who plays a Blood Raven army with the Blood Angels codex, why? Because i can! I tried using vanilla marines codex but i just didn't really get on with it.

 

What you said there is the most important of all, as long as you are ok using your guys to the letter of your chosen codex, why should there be an issue?

[DominicJ]

I'm toying with using the sw codex for my blood angels

 

Had a read, no chance, no proper jumpies!!!