Master of the Forge

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So the HP system hasn't deterred me from my Dreadnought-heavy armies in the slightest, so I have continued to take a MOTF (with the double-whammy that moving them into the Heavy slots makes them scoring in one of the missions!). However, I'm having a dilemma on how to arm him.

 

By stat-line, he's still a shooting character. The way Gunslinger and the harness interact make me want to say that he can fire a pistol and the plasma cutter and the flamer; with his BS 5 and general theme and fluffiness, the plasma pistol seems the most appropriate.

 

But the changes to CCW and AP values has given the MOTF a new lease on life when engaged in melee. So my question now becomes, what is the best way to arm him for close combat? The way I see it, there are only three real options:

 

1. Thunder Hammer. AP2 will keep him safe until he gets to hit with his two hammer and two fist attacks from the harness. That's four S8 AP2 attacks, which is more than a 'nilla captain with a fist or hammer has standard. The problem is, if stuck in a challenge with, say, a power fist sergeant, there's still very much a chance he'll die since it's all simultaneous.

 

2. Power axe. Same drawback as the hammer, the axe grants an extra attack with the plasma pistol and bumps his non-charging number to five attacks, all AP2.

 

3. Power sword. I think this is the best option. I'll get an extra attack from the pistol and strike before the only weapons that can pen his armor, giving me a chance to kill fist-sergeants before they kill me.

 

 

So I ask the community: which do YOU think is the best option? I'd like to know before I start ripping the model apart and rebuilding it.

[ShinyRhino]

I think it boils down to the unit he rides with.

If you have another character to soak up challenges, I'd go with the hammer or axe build. Taht way he's smashing as many models as possible while the ride-along sergeant or what have you takes the challenge for the team, probably allowing you to win combat.

If he's riding with a character-less unit, I'd take the sword for that "just in case" flexibility.

[BassWave]

I would definitely go for Power sword and plasma pistol. It makes the MotF flexible enough to be ready for a variety of situations as he can attack at initiative with a bonus attack, AND he has two extra power fist attacks. A simple sarge with power axe can be a threat if you do not strike before him as he will ignore your armor, so use the sword to your advantage.

Problem is, the MotF/techmarine does not look right with a simple blade... Oh wait!

:)

[WarriorFish]

There's always scope for personal preference/list considerations but I think the best choice in most scenarios is a power sword without doubt.

 

He's already slapping people around with PF attacks so adding some power attacks at initiative is a great way to make him more flexible and perhaps just as important keeping his cost down.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think it boils down to the unit he rides with.

If you have another character to soak up challenges, I'd go with the hammer or axe build. Taht way he's smashing as many models as possible while the ride-along sergeant or what have you takes the challenge for the team, probably allowing you to win combat.

If he's riding with a character-less unit, I'd take the sword for that "just in case" flexibility.

I've been sticking with Combat Tactics and I run mostly Dreads and Tac Squads, so I've been trying not to fight challenges and instead Tactic my way out of combat. I'd be willing to sacrifice a sergeant in a challenge so the MOTF can kill some dudes for sure, but that's a one-shot deal and I'd rather not risk it. After all, against a Marine opponent, I'm only likely to hit with two out of the four attacks, so even with Digi Weapons, that's only two kills. Is it worth the investment?

I would definitely go for Power sword and plasma pistol. It makes the MotF flexible enough to be ready for a variety of situations as he can attack at initiative with a bonus attack, AND he has two extra power fist attacks. A simple sarge with power axe can be a threat if you do not strike before him as he will ignore your armor, so use the sword to your advantage.

Problem is, the MotF/techmarine does not look right with a simple blade... Oh wait!

:lol:

Ehh. . . .those are too steam-punk for my tastes, rather more War Machine than Warhammer. I do, however, have an Emperor's Champion sword arm lying around, just waiting for my to put a knife to it.

[Bannus]

For me, it is the power ax or thunderhammer. Yes, they are I1 weapons, but since he is WS4, I4 to begin with, he will likely go simultaneously or after most challengers anyway (and same chances to hit or worse). He should have someone else around to soak up challenges. While is now decent in close combat (thanks to the buff to Artificer armor), that does not mean he should be challenging anyone in single combat.

[DarkGuard]

I agree with the power sword, as it does give him flexibility, and if he's challenged then he can deal with hidden power fists quite easily, while his servo-arms help with 2+ saves.

 

But there is merit in the power axe for just taking as many AP2 attacks as possible. I wouldn't take the thunder hammer though, you have two power fist attacks, just grab more attacks with the axe or sword thanks to having two CCW weapons.

[greatcrusade08]

is that right about his shooting? can he really fire a plasma pistol and both of his harness weapons?

[bystrom]

is that right about his shooting? can he really fire a plasma pistol and both of his harness weapons?

I'm also curious about this, the only thing I've found about this is the actual description in the Codex for Servo-harness. There it says he can only shoot both harness weapons or one harness weapon and another gun.

[ShinyRhino]

His shooting status would be covered by both the Servo Harness entry and the Gunslinger rule. You'd have to compare the exact wording of the two to determine if they overlap, or cancel one another inadvertently.

Gunsliger lets you fire two pistols. Servo lets you fire one held weapon and one harness, or two harness. Does the firing of two pistols effectively negate the two harness, since you have fired one harness an one held weapon, fulfilling one of its fire modes?

[Axagoras]

I would definitely go for Power sword and plasma pistol. It makes the MotF flexible enough to be ready for a variety of situations as he can attack at initiative with a bonus attack, AND he has two extra power fist attacks. A simple sarge with power axe can be a threat if you do not strike before him as he will ignore your armor, so use the sword to your advantage.

Problem is, the MotF/techmarine does not look right with a simple blade... Oh wait!

:tu:

My honour guard have now found their weapons!! Thanks for posting that. Now back to the topic I agree the sword will be the best for him on his own or with servitors or scouts.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I just had a thought, concerning our schmoe Elite-choice Techmarine. At 75 points, you get the Techie with full harness. At 105, you get that plus a power weapon and a plasma pistol. The point I'm getting at is that for 105 points, we can get a character to absorb challenges in our Tactical Squads.

 

Silly I know, but hear me out. With a power sword and plasma pistol, he gets two (three if you charge) attacks for killing enemy sergeants at I4 (bypassing fists, for instance) and two more fist attacks at I1 with the harness. Plus, a 2+ save to keep him alive against anything but AP2 weapons. Meanwhile, your sergeant is providing Ld9 to the squad and whatever attack profile you've got him equipped for.

 

Plus, it's a way to provide two more Marine-killing plasma shots to a squad; in one of my Tac Squad set-ups, for instance, I have a combi-plas, plas and MM. At 12", that increase my single-round plasma shots by 50%; six rounds, one of which is twinlinked, should put four wounds on anything T5 or lower. Given that I'm looking at going all-pod with my Iron Hands, I think this is a viable option -- especially since I'm also taking a similarly equipped MOTF and moving Dreadnoughts into the Heavy slots, which keeps my Elites free for a Techmarine or two.

 

So, am I crazy? Viable option?

[BassWave]

105 points? Don't you think that is kinda steep for a one wound model? I would personally stop upgrading after the harness as he should be used as a squad upgrade. Maybe also get the power weapon, but that is really pushing it. Give the extra plasma pistol to a sarge so you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

 

When you are spending 105 points, might as well get another MotF if you have the slot open.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I don't have the extra HQ slot; I'm addicted to my Librarian. But you do raise a good point there. They do have combi-weapon options, though -- what's your take on that? Three plasma shots at 12" for a turn isn't crappy, especially when you roll in the servo-arms.

[BassWave]

Interesting... What kind of squad do you plan on running the Techmarine with exactly?

[WarriorFish]

That's a good idea, with a power weapon to hit at AP3 and the servo harness to take out 2+ saves (at I1 which would be required to bypass his own 2+) he won't just be good at absorbing the challenge hits but also providing a viable threat to most challengers. Fancy pants characters might not be too afraid if they have Eternal Warrior and/or a good invulnerable save but he'd be great at removing pesky sergeants and the like.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Interesting... What kind of squad do you plan on running the Techmarine with exactly?

 

A Tactical Squad in a drop pod, probably with a combiplasma and plasma (and MM, but that's immaterial to this). First turn drop, that's seven plasma shots from that one squad, one of which is twinlinked. That'll produce five hits and four wounds on anything T5 or less. That'll murderize tac termies and put dents in any other MEQ squad. Plus, that's five opportunities for precision shots. And then if charged, I can accept non-power fist sergeant challenges with him and deliver his own fist attacks from behind his arty armor.

[BassWave]

Talk about brain wave alignment, I was going to suggest kitting the tactical squad exactly like that. Sounds good to me go for it :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Talk about brain wave alignment, I was going to suggest kitting the tactical squad exactly like that. Sounds good to me go for it :lol:

 

No kidding. As a side note on said alignment, when the little icons of different chapters firing bolters at faces that appear in everyone's sigs, I immediately thought, "Hey, it'd be cool to do an Iron Hand with a plasma gun." A couple days later, I noticed you had exactly that.

[BassWave]

Well if you want a gif for your sig, look in this thread, there's quite a few IH variants with plasma. Be sure to thank MadDoc for making the cool little things <_<

 

By the way, what do you use the librarian for? Gate of Eternity and force dome?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Traditionally, Null Zone and Avenger, but I've been experimenting with Biomancy since 6th came out. I've rolled Endurance all my games so far and it usually works out well; combined with Life Leech, it kept him alive and kicknig against the Necrons I played two weeks ago. I tried to pop off Haemorrage once but didn't get anyone with it, and didn't have Enfeeble to work with to increase my chances of success.

[LoreDraconis]

Nice! I'm glad we're having this discussion.

 

I most often run my MotF with a Conv beamer, which never disappoints, but I think with the new ruleset he could make a very viable medium range combatant.

 

To that purpose, he is very well suited to running with a strernguard squad. Consider what it gives you:

 

-MotF has reliable BS5 to support the shooting heavy squad.

-Brings an extra flamer to act as a counter threat to charging. (overwatch)

-Can take a combi plasma and still remain a significant threat in melee due to Servoarms.

-If you choose to roll across the board instead of droppodding, having the ability to repair your transport from the inside is a very nice bonus, even if it's only a 50% chance without servitors.

 

I have been experimenting with a MotF with a 5 man sternguard death squad roaming around the board in a Landraider Achilles. It's perfect for the 6 man gun squad, since it loses the assault ramp, making it a poor choice for melee squads. Putting a heavy flamer, and some combi plas/melta/flamers can make it an extremely versatile squad. Even if you simply go all combi-flamers, you can pop out, rapidfire with hellfire rounds, and have a massive 6x flamer (7x if you take a combi flamer on your MotF as well) overwatch to threaten assaults.

The Achilles is already massively durable, so adding the ability to repair it in transit can make it a very nice anchor for your army.

[DarkGuard]

I just had a thought, concerning our schmoe Elite-choice Techmarine. At 75 points, you get the Techie with full harness. At 105, you get that plus a power weapon and a plasma pistol. The point I'm getting at is that for 105 points, we can get a character to absorb challenges in our Tactical Squads.

 

Silly I know, but hear me out. With a power sword and plasma pistol, he gets two (three if you charge) attacks for killing enemy sergeants at I4 (bypassing fists, for instance) and two more fist attacks at I1 with the harness. Plus, a 2+ save to keep him alive against anything but AP2 weapons. Meanwhile, your sergeant is providing Ld9 to the squad and whatever attack profile you've got him equipped for.

 

Plus, it's a way to provide two more Marine-killing plasma shots to a squad; in one of my Tac Squad set-ups, for instance, I have a combi-plas, plas and MM. At 12", that increase my single-round plasma shots by 50%; six rounds, one of which is twinlinked, should put four wounds on anything T5 or lower. Given that I'm looking at going all-pod with my Iron Hands, I think this is a viable option -- especially since I'm also taking a similarly equipped MOTF and moving Dreadnoughts into the Heavy slots, which keeps my Elites free for a Techmarine or two.

 

So, am I crazy? Viable option?

 

To be honest, I think you're crazy. B)

 

But to be honest, while it's a nice idea, I do think it's too many points. If you want a challenge absorber for a Tactical squad as an IC, I'd say go for a Techmarine with power weapon at 65pts. You've still got a power fist attack, a few other power weapon attacks, and it costs less points. 2+ armour got good, but not for a character with 1 wound at 105pts, all that's needed to ruin his day is one AP2 weapon or one failed armour save.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

How about with harness and combiplasma, though? Then I'm also getting a twinlinked plasma shot and a flamer, both of which can contribute to Overwatch.

[DarkGuard]

It's just sinking more points on a one wound model. Yes he can hide in squads, and he does have a good armour save. But one wound has to get through, that's all, and then he's gone, and you've lost a lot of points. I'd much rather take two MM ABs, or a Typhoon, or a TFC for those points.