Requiem88 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hi all, New to the forums (been reading for some time!), and would like to know if any of you chaps can help me out. I started collecting Blood Angels in 5th, with a small mech list, and have recently acquired a lot of assault marines, some sanguinary priests etc for a DoA list. Yet I can't really get a DoA list to work in 6th. The problem I'm encountering with a DoA list is that (except in tables with massive amounts of scenery/cover) the marines are prey to heavy supports, like Doomsday arks, Vindicators, Monoliths, and I rarely find a way to get them across the table to where they need to be, without dying to massive template blasts, and in my typical DoA list I lack the long range firepower to take out the opponents heavy support... I've tried deepstriking next to the heavy supports with 2 meltaguns and an infernus pistol in my 10m squads, but against something like a monolith the odds of that working out in my favor are pretty slim, and if it fails my 10man squad will be sitting ducks, which I've noted usually means they get wiped. My second problem is terminators. With power weapons no longer ignoring armour, but rather being ap3 they've become a real pain in the ****, at least until Glaive Encarmines and some IC weapons are FAQ'ed, termies have become a real threat in CC and can easily tarpit an expensive unit... I've also noticed that Overwatch isn't something to be feared all that much, but it sure doesn't help an assault army... I just don't get an 'all-round' feeling from any list based on DoA, with or without vindicators, predators etc, and constantly feel like I'm up against units I just can't handle, and that is kind of taking the fun out of the game. How do you (succesfully) run a DoA list? Here's what I tried today (and failed badly with, which is partly the fault of a massively unlucky day with the dice): 2000pAstorath the Grim 3 x Sanguinary Priest Power weapons en jumppacks 10 Death Company Jump Packs, 2x Power Sword, 1x Fist Death Company Dreadnought Searchlight 10 Assault Marines infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns, powerfist 10 Assault Marines Infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns, powerfist 10 Assault Marines Infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns, powerfist Vindicator Dozer blade, Searchlight Vindicator Dozer blade, Searchlight Should I have replaced the vindicators with Devestators? Lascannon predators? I'm at a loss tbh... -Req Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Well DOA is dead, you can't null reserve like in 5th. As for jumper heavy I'd personally say start everything on the board. You need way more than 30 Assault Marines, I'd say 50 min. You need dedicated firepower too, Attack Bikes with Multi Meltas would not only give you a 5+ cover save but they'd draw lots of firepower, ensure you have a SHP nearby & they'll get FNP too, by giving your dudes a 5+/5+ you'll last a lot longer, plus fast Multi Meltas means you don't have to suicide drop your Assault Squads in there. I also think you need some Devastator Squads, 2 with Missile Launchers will help loads. Drop Astorath & take 2 Divination Librarians to support your Assault Squads, things like re-roll hits or a 4++ are great. For Terminators (sheesh, I hate them too) ignore them, jump around them, shoot them with AP1/2 things like Melta & Plasma. If you do Assault them then make sure you really gang up on them, they die when people roll 1s, I find weight of fire/attacks does it eventually, IMO not even DC can take on tooled up Assault Terminators & live to tell the tale, so I tend to try & ignore them. Remember without a transport & on foot Assault Terminators are pretty slow & are a lot less of a threat. - Dallas PS. Not sure the Vindicators fit either. Those DC are a huge point sink. Try a variation on this (can't do points as not near my codex but off the top of my head I make this 1980 points.) Liby, JP SHP, JP SHP, JP SHP, JP RAS, Melta x 2 RAS, Melta x 2 RAS, Melta x 2 RAS, Plasma x 2 RAS, Plasma x 2 MMAB x 2 MMAB x 2 MMAB x 2 Devs, ML x 4 Devs, ML x 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adorondak Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You might also try some sanguinary guard, they have a 2+ save making them pretty tough against any power weapons except fists, hammers, and now power axes. Now that you can take feel no pain against anything that doesn't cause instant death, I would definetly put a priest in there with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 2000pAstorath the Grim 3 x Sanguinary Priest Power weapons en jumppacks 10 Death Company Jump Packs, 2x Power Sword, 1x Fist Death Company Dreadnought Searchlight 10 Assault Marines infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns, powerfist 10 Assault Marines Infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns, powerfist 10 Assault Marines Infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns, powerfist Vindicator Dozer blade, Searchlight Vindicator Dozer blade, Searchlight = 2073 points, and no drop pod for the dread? I'd drop the vindicators, one priest, and the JPs from the DC. Replace with a storm raven loaded with DC and DC dread. = 1730 points. Add in some VVets or a Honor/Sang Guard, or a bunch of attack bikes, deep strike in some termies.... 150 points for the DC jump packs is crazy though, maybe ok for just 5 of them but at that size a squad you are just 50 points away from getting that raven instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Long Fangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 great advice from Red Fury! Very useful in this sort of list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 At 2000 I'd use something like this. Astorath Librarian w/ Jump Pack, Force Axe, (will use Divination) Librarian w/ Jump Pack, Force Axe, (will use Divination) Priest w/ Jump Pack, Power Axe Priest w/ Jump Pack, Power Axe 10 Assault Marines, Melta x2, Meltabomb 10 Assault Marines, Melta x2, Meltabomb 10 Assault Marines, Melta x2, Meltabomb 10 Death Company, 2x Power Axe, Powerfist 3 MM Assault Bikes 3 MM Assault Bikes If you feel like you need more MSU/AT, then you can drop 2 Death company, the powerfist and a Meltabomb and run 2x2x2x2 Attack Bikes The Death company are the obvious threat, but the other ICs are the major kill pieces, and can shuffle when an ASM unit takes heavy casualties. Twin Linked multimeltas in the first wave, followed up by ASM and Death Company. Reasonable chance to roll the 4+ Invulnerable Power from Divination which is very nice on Death Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem88 Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Thank you all for the great advice! Will definitly try out these suggestions! :D Have to admit that this was my first time really running Death Company in such a big squad with JP, and they did NOT earn their points back... My stormraven should indeed do a lot better! How would you let the DC and dread disembark from the raven, through Skies of Blood? Or the normal way I've never used bikes, as I've never liked their models, but I might look into some other models I can use for bikes @Red Fury, I redid the math and its 1998p :) Thanks again all! -Req Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 great advice from Red Fury! :D How would you let the DC and dread disembark from the raven, through Skies of Blood? Or the normal way I've never used bikes, as I've never liked their models, but I might look into some other models I can use for bikes @Red Fury, I redid the math and its 1998p I'd say the normal way at the start of turn 3. Though it's a topic of debate whether or not the raven can continue to zoom afterwards. I like the addition of the wings from the DA accessory sprue to make them more angelic. 1998? Hmmmm, maybe Army Builder is wrong or out of date, I'm still getting 2073. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem88 Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'd say the normal way at the start of turn 3. Though it's a topic of debate whether or not the raven can continue to zoom afterwards. I like the addition of the wings from the DA accessory sprue to make them more angelic. 1998? Hmmmm, maybe Army Builder is wrong or out of date, I'm still getting 2073. Hmm either Army Builder is off, or my codex is off! Ran the numbers again, adds up to 1998 again ^^ doesn't really matter though as i'll clearly be changing the list I'm looking into the bikes from puppetswar and chapterhousestudios (the chapterhouse bikes are surprisingly expensive, but it would make sense to me that they're jetbikes, not a weird looking motorcycle, i'll leave that to the orks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 At 2000 I'd use something like this. Astorath Librarian w/ Jump Pack, Force Axe, (will use Divination) Librarian w/ Jump Pack, Force Axe, (will use Divination) Priest w/ Jump Pack, Power Axe Priest w/ Jump Pack, Power Axe 10 Assault Marines, Melta x2, Meltabomb 10 Assault Marines, Melta x2, Meltabomb 10 Assault Marines, Melta x2, Meltabomb 10 Death Company, 2x Power Axe, Powerfist 3 MM Assault Bikes 3 MM Assault Bikes If you feel like you need more MSU/AT, then you can drop 2 Death company, the powerfist and a Meltabomb and run 2x2x2x2 Attack Bikes The Death company are the obvious threat, but the other ICs are the major kill pieces, and can shuffle when an ASM unit takes heavy casualties. Twin Linked multimeltas in the first wave, followed up by ASM and Death Company. Reasonable chance to roll the 4+ Invulnerable Power from Divination which is very nice on Death Company. I like the look of the list. I really wish I had modeled my DC with axes and not swords... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 What are you gonna do againts flyer-heavy lists? Hope that you can get into melta-range with rerolling power on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem88 Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 What are you gonna do againts flyer-heavy lists? Hope that you can get into melta-range with rerolling power on? Yeah that is one of the problems with a list that has no dedicated long range fire, or even fliers... Maybe stormravens really are the way to go now and can be a great help in a jumper list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 What are you gonna do againts flyer-heavy lists? Hope that you can get into melta-range with rerolling power on? Against flyer heavy, it's pretty much table the ground element, sit on objectives, win. You don't have to kill flyers to win the game unless it's scouring/big guns never tire. With fixed weapon mounts, restricted movement, and unable to contest, I can't see it being anything but uphill for them. And yeah, I wouldn't want twin-linked meltas coming near my fliers. I think adding stormraven(s) just gives enemy fliers a target to shoot down. Otherwise they're killing a couple of 18 point models every other turn which isn't great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Do you ever count as being in melta range for the additional d6 against flyers? I'm not sure on the rules, but it doesn't make sense that they're too high up to assault (2d6", and you're equipped with jump packs to make the point that its not on the ground moot), but close enough (6") for the additional armour penetration dice. There's also the notion of a librarian who rolls up scrier's gaze...3d6 for mysterious objectives and pick the one you want gives you a 50/50 shot of landing up on a skyfire nexus. I agree that not having a flier can sometimes be beneficial...its an arms race that can be beaten by not committing; things like storm talons and dakka jets aren't as effective when they're just shooting ground stuff, and you get one up on people that have invested in a defence line. Just watch the fliers that are dangerous as air-to-ground attack batteries (Thinking raven and Doom Scythe here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think some people see 6s to hit as being immune. I've lost my SR to a single Zoanthrope (partly my fault for being too aggressive), it can & will happen, you can quote math-hammer all you like but if something like that rolls a 6 it's bad news. The issue I'm struggling with is this - IG bring Aegis (sometimes Hydras) & Valks. How does my SR stand up here? I'm on the fence re: SRs. I feel that they're too risky as transports (been using it to drop my DCD in), they have reasonable to good firepower (depending on how you set them up) but they are also flyers. Also, I'm tempted to take the second turn against other armies with flyers, but often they can afford 2 for my 1 SR. A bit off topic, but what do people think - SR or not!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himkano Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I am undecided about the SR too, which makes me sad since I have 2 of them. I have given some thought on how to use them though, if I did include it for my DC. First, losing my DC and maybe dread because of a lucky shot is unacceptable, so I would hover in, and move flat out (I don't have my rulebook handy for exact distance, but this should get you across the board) and (FAQ says we can still use the MM with PotMS to kill biggest threat). I would be hit at normal BS, but I would have 4+ cover save. If the SR did get shot down, my DC would be mostly intact. If it doesn't get shot down, I would shoot something, and set myself up for good zoom angle next turn (I know there is debate, but I don't think the vehicle can zoom the turn it drops off troops, and won't play it that way unless there is a FAQ). So that doesn't really say use it or not, but it might help your decision to realize that you can use it without risking everything (a lot of people forget that because it can zoom, it must zoom to get where it needs to be, but a flat out fast skimmer can still cover a lot of ground) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think it's fine in a gunship role. I'd never transport Death Company in one - I'd much sooner Deepstrike a Landraider of Death Company. Best to transport are either Mephiston or Death Company Dread/Furioso with Extra Armor I believe. Either one can suffer the crash hit and walk away. I think to make the SR work best you do need a presence on the board, so I wouldn't overload one - what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Transporting a unit (say 10 DC + Lemmy + DCD or 5 Hammernators + Librarian) = Hover & move as Fast Skimmer. Gunship (with maybe a Dread riding) = Zoom. Problem with Stormravens is they're like the old Landraiders, you're not sure if you want to use them as a gunship or as a transport. Personally I'm going the gunship route, I've had my SR taken out 4 times in a row now so I'm no way putting 600 odd points in it, just going to throw a Blood Talon Dread in there & call it a day. Loading up heavy just gives my enemy a no-brainer decision & yes, it leaves my army light on turns 1 & 2. I had 1240 points vs. 2000 points for turn 1 the last time I loaded my SR heavy, not doing that again. - Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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