Raven Angel Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I have been going through my step son's copy of the BGB and noted a major change in regrouping falling back squads. For as long as I can remember regrouping depended on 2 things, keep the squad above 50% and be 6" or more away from an enemy unit. Now I see 3 major changes in regrouping in 6th. 1st the threshold for trouble has dropped to 25% 2nd unites with less the 25% of the starting number can still regroup by rolling double 1s 3rd enemy units no longer have any baring that I can see. So how does this change the dynamic and does it make it hared to force squads off the table after losing CC or getting shot up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 As you have already gathered, we can no longer shepherd units off of the board: unless a Space Marine unit manages to run off of the table when it initially breaks, it will rally. The changes also mean that a single guardsman might - in some incredibly rare moment of inspiration - muster up courage on a roll of snake-eyes and rally himself. Units are now more durable to morale; Space Marines especially so. (Anything with "And They Shall Know No Fear".) It's better, because chasing units to the table edge was silly as the chaser and frustrating as the one chased: more fun when things just get blown up. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazer Rackham Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yep, and "No retreat" is gone as well... MR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 yup ATSKNF is now prehaps the strongest ability in the game (especially when combined with combat tactics), marines would almost rather flee from combat, than stick it out as they can run and then turn around and shoot the unit that they just fled from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHaunt Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 yup ATSKNF is now prehaps the strongest ability in the game (especially when combined with combat tactics), marines would almost rather flee from combat, than stick it out as they can run and then turn around and shoot the unit that they just fled from. Oh, it's nice, but I don't think it's the strongest ability in the game, by a long shot. It pales in comparison to being only hit on a 6, immune to template and blast fire, and un-assaultable. I've used Combat Tactics and ATSKNF in 5th, and it's nice, but it's not overwhelming, by any means. I think the change is good, as it ends up with a more complex tactical mix. You broke a unit, and it fled. Do you give chase, or move on to a more threatening target? And from the other side, you fled from a combat. Do you turn around and fire into the unit you just fled from, or do you move to get outside that unit's threat range, to keep the unit alive? If it's a scoring unit, and you need to claim an objective? It presents more opportunities for decisions, on both sides, making the game richer and more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Oh, it's nice, but I don't think it's the strongest ability in the game, by a long shot. It pales in comparison to being only hit on a 6, immune to template and blast fire, and un-assaultable. I've used Combat Tactics and ATSKNF in 5th, and it's nice, but it's not overwhelming, by any means. I think the change is good, as it ends up with a more complex tactical mix. You broke a unit, and it fled. Do you give chase, or move on to a more threatening target? And from the other side, you fled from a combat. Do you turn around and fire into the unit you just fled from, or do you move to get outside that unit's threat range, to keep the unit alive? If it's a scoring unit, and you need to claim an objective? It presents more opportunities for decisions, on both sides, making the game richer and more complex. Consider this though, how many units are fliers VS have ATSKNF. Also in 5th if you ran using combat tactics there were drawbacks, you could get caught and take no retreat wounds, you could get escorted off the table, or be out of coherency and not regroup, now there is no drawback save the end of the game (if you break and the game ends before you can regroup). It is only a positive. Consider this. I have 10 Tactical Marines(with just bolters for ease) 24" away from your 30 Ork Boyz. I get to shoot you with 10 shots, I kill say 3 Boyz, You move toward me, I can then move to 12" away and Rapid fire (killing say 6 more), You Charge, and I overwatch, killing maybe 2 more. So then say I lose combat, I fall back, Regroup, and shoot you again. In 5th, you move toward me and I no longer can regroup. Consider the Following as well. ATSKNF units Auto-regroup can't be swept (which is huge) are immune to fear Oh and I can transfer it to a squad with a single model. Say hello to my 50 Guardsman who can never be swept, and auto regroup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yep, and "No retreat" is gone as well... MR. Which is a god send for my Nids, and a change that really needed to be made, along with the regroup change. Both good decisions IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpnightsend Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Oh and I can transfer it to a squad with a single model. Say hello to my 50 Guardsman who can never be swept, and auto regroup... Funny, us Guard players have a way to do that too, before allying rules. Commissars. For 35 points. (70 for a lord) About 1/3 (2/3) of the cost of adding a space marine HQ to a guardsmen squad? Also lets them reroll the odd failure at the cost of a 5 pt guardsmen? And my HQ built for close combat isn't standing around telling a bunch of guardsmen to stop whining? I don't see how adding a Space Marine to the squad is more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Also in 5th if you ran using combat tactics there were drawbacks, you could get caught and take no retreat wounds Unless you had Marneus Calgar. :D Then it was: 1. Elect to fail. 2. Fall back. 3. Get caught and be stuck back in an assault next turn, OR get away 4. Auto regroup. 5. Shoot your enemies. 6. ??????? 7. Profit!! Actually, Marines didn't suffer No Retreat wounds unless they were Fearless or had some other rule making them immune to/automatically pass Moral tests... The only difference Calgar makes is that you could elect to fail instead of hoping to fail a roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Actually, Marines didn't suffer No Retreat wounds unless Not that it matters, as 5th is water under the bridge - but yes, Marines in 5th took No Retreat wounds if they broke and were caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Commissars just make you Stubborn and give you a reroll to the first morale test you had to make at the cost of your unit leader. I don't know where you're getting the rest of that from. ATSKNF is insanely good. Combined with Combat Tactics, it means that all Space Marines are immune to tarpitting, immune to CC brute squadding (they just have to survive the assault then fall back out of it!), extremely resistant to stuff like Canoptek Spyders and Greater Daemons... it's just horrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpnightsend Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Commissars just make you Stubborn and give you a reroll to the first morale test you had to make at the cost of your unit leader. I don't know where you're getting the rest of that from. So instead of auto-regrouping, they regroup on Ld 9 (or 10). and can still shoot as if they moved. Probably worth it to save that many points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Comissars are also a LOT more fragile than space marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpnightsend Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I just feel like it's a waste of points and effort to fit a space marine IC into a 50-man guard squad just to give them ATSKNF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I just feel like it's a waste of points and effort to fit a space marine IC into a 50-man guard squad just to give them ATSKNF Not if you take Azrael and give them a 4+ invul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj Tom Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You mean I can't tank shock a Dread Knight off the table anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Or for that matter an 800 point squad of Paladins. This is a VERY welcome change, if you ask me. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You mean I can't tank shock a Dread Knight off the table anymore? Or for that matter an 800 point squad of Paladins. This is a VERY welcome change, if you ask me. <3 Well, technically you can. You just have to be close enough to the table edge that they'll fall off the moment they fail the test. But can you tank shock them and then escort them off? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You mean I can't tank shock a Dread Knight off the table anymore? Or for that matter an 800 point squad of Paladins. This is a VERY welcome change, if you ask me. <3 Well, technically you can. You just have to be close enough to the table edge that they'll fall off the moment they fail the test. But can you tank shock them and then escort them off? No. You can also repeatedly fight them back. But you literally have to push them inch by inch off the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 You can also repeatedly fight them back. But you literally have to push them inch by inch off the board Which is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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