malediction

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Hi all

 

well, Ive finished listening to the new audio book, Malediction. I recommend it for those with an interest in Cypher and any DA fan.

 

The story revolves around mortals, which is a shame for SM lovers, in fact, SM play a very, very minor role, but these are really interesting revelations about Cypher and the DA's attitudes. The story revolves around Reegan Antigone who is the sole survivor of his regiment, a regiment that saved the planet from falling to Chaos. The start of the story is set 25 years after the liberation of Proced V, Antigone is hailed as a Hero of the Imperium and everyone loves him, they shower him with praise etc: Well, 25 years prior he had been rescued from near death by the Dark Angels, specifically Sergeant Tigrane, and the two had formed a sort of bond, Tigrane goes to see him in hospital before he leaves to check up on him.

 

Now, Tigrane (Company-Master of the 6th) has returned to hear his tale one more time

 

Now, this is where spoilers start for real

 

 

It is frequently asserted that he has a secret that he has kept for all these years, which is the central tenet of the entire story. He hates this secret, and really, he wants to tell someone.

He tells his story to Tigrane in order for Tigrane to record it for posterity in the Chapter records as a way of honouring Antigone, this was Tigrane's idea.

 

So, he tells his tale of holding the line with a bunch of PDF recruits, there are four main characters at this point, Antigone, two guardsmen: Murdoch and (the other guys name escapes me) and the colonel of their unit. The three friends do everything together and they get caught looting the uniform of a dead soldier, for which they head across no-mans land to spy on the heretic lines where they discover seige artillery. With this revelation the PDF launch an attack, but Antigone and his mates stay behind with a small defence force. The way he tells the story, the heretics slaughter all the PDF and then swarm the Imperial lines in a bid to take the city, and it is Antigone that rallies them, organises them and sets them up as the defence line which is finally ovcerrun and, as he lays there, getting flayed alive, the Dark Angels rock up and Tigrane rescues Antigone and his mates (the only survivors, thought the other 2 die of their wounds in the next few days). Interestingly enough, the Dark Angels are shown to care for these humans, and to accord them respect and honour. Tigrane is determined to keep Antigone alive, and when he finds out, 25 years later, that the others died, he is actually upset. We also discover that Antigone has been poisoned and that he is slowly dying which also upset Tigrane a little.

 

However, Tigrane does not believe Antigone, and as Antigone tries to leave the function he has attended, he thinks Tigrane has left, Tigrane accosts him. Antigone is surprised he was able to hide in the shadows, to which Tigrane says that he was trained by the legendary Naaman, so therefore of course he can hide. Tigrane demands the truth from Antigone, saying that recruits should have fled and that with no officers, how could he have come up the best plan to defend the trench with the limited troops he had. So, Antigone tells him the truth.

 

We flash back to the point where the troops are beginning to flee the trench, except this time Antigone is prepared to flee as well. It is the sudden appearance of a Green Armoured, Robed figure with twin pistols and a sheathed sword that stops them all. He tells them they have sworn an oath to die for their Emperor if need be, and no is the time to make good that oath. When Antigone asks him 'Lord, where is the rest of your Chapter' Cypher is described as unsure of how to answer, but when he does he says: 'I fear my Legion may not arrive on time to save the city, therefore we have to do it' IE: The DA may not make it in time if they do not hold the line, indicating possible loyalist tendencies. It is Cypher that sets them up for war and under his direction they fight. Out of fear and respect as well as awe, but they fight and they slaughter the mutants/heretics. As the battle reaches its end, he then demands Antigone and his friends swear an oath to never speak of what happened or he will kill them there and then, which Antigone then swears. Cypher disappears just as Tigrane turns up with his Brothers.

 

After this revelation, Tigrane is really, really, really annoyed, He declares that Antigone has sided and harbored/consorted with traitors (though how could he know) strips him of his titles and honours, declares him a heretic and then executes him. In many ways, he is at peace with this, he has all these secrets and now they are out and it is over. I felt that it was a sort of analogy with our own secret, Antigone knows that telling this secret would shame him on the outside, it already has on the inside, for it was Cypher's leadership not his own that saved the entire city. his fear of shame and to be found out as a possible traitor (which he is by Tigrane) leads to his not telling, perhaps the Dark Angels feel the same way.

 

Interesting stuff: The DA seem to actually care at times, but when they find out that Cypher was involved they turn around and treat Antigone as a Traitor.

Cypher is shown to be a loyalist almost, he fights for the Imperium and calls the Dark Angels his 'Legion' and indicates that he sees them as his brothers. He also still does not use his sword. DA are shown to still be ruthless and uncompromising and hard despite seeming to care for others. They are also described as one of the most glorious and renowned Chapters, indicating no-one really is aware of their sometimes tendency to leave. We also learn the name of a Company-Master and that Naaman has trained loads of Dark Angel commanders over the years

 

 

All in all, I thought it was a good tale and I think you should all listen to it. It makes Grey Angel, and Cyphers role there, make a little more sense, I think, and adds to the mystery of Cypher all over

[EPK]

Thanks for the summary as I doubt I would purchase it (I'm not an audio book kinda guy).

 

Interesting stuff: The DA seem to actually care at times, but when they find out that Cypher was involved they turn around and treat Antigone as a Traitor.

Cypher is shown to be a loyalist almost, he fights for the Imperium and calls the Dark Angels his 'Legion' and indicates that he sees them as his brothers. He also still does not use his sword. DA are shown to still be ruthless and uncompromising and hard despite seeming to care for others. They are also described as one of the most glorious and renowned Chapters, indicating no-one really is aware of their sometimes tendency to leave. We also learn the name of a Company-Master and that Naaman has trained loads of Dark Angel commanders over the years

 

 

I never thought as the DA not caring for mortals at all (the Purging of Kaddilus show a bit of this as they fight alongside the PDF). I think this is really just par for the course as once it is out that Cypher was involved, Tigrane turns on a dime. I'd think Tigrane only killed Antigone mostly to keep him quiet. As you said, Anitgone had no way of knowing Cypher was not just another DA and I'm sure Tigrane realizes this. But the fact that there is a lone DA out their using the term "Legion", carrying twin pistols, etc. etc. needs to be kept a secret.

 

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Thanks for the summary as I doubt I would purchase it (I'm not an audio book kinda guy).

 

Interesting stuff: The DA seem to actually care at times, but when they find out that Cypher was involved they turn around and treat Antigone as a Traitor.

Cypher is shown to be a loyalist almost, he fights for the Imperium and calls the Dark Angels his 'Legion' and indicates that he sees them as his brothers. He also still does not use his sword. DA are shown to still be ruthless and uncompromising and hard despite seeming to care for others. They are also described as one of the most glorious and renowned Chapters, indicating no-one really is aware of their sometimes tendency to leave. We also learn the name of a Company-Master and that Naaman has trained loads of Dark Angel commanders over the years

 

 

I never thought as the DA not caring for mortals at all (the Purging of Kaddilus show a bit of this as they fight alongside the PDF). I think this is really just par for the course as once it is out that Cypher was involved, Tigrane turns on a dime. I'd think Tigrane only killed Antigone mostly to keep him quiet. As you said, Anitgone had no way of knowing Cypher was not just another DA and I'm sure Tigrane realizes this. But the fact that there is a lone DA out their using the term "Legion", carrying twin pistols, etc. etc. needs to be kept a secret.

 

 

For sure

 

 

Though Antigone makes it clear he wont tell anyone, and he is going to die in a few days or so anyways from poison. I think its more the DA mindset that takes over, there is either for us or against us, no in between.

 

also, sometimes there's a tendency to see the DA as completely uncaring, its nice to see that they do fight for humanity as well as themselves

 

[Phoebus]

I don't think it's necessarily a case of

Naaman training Company Masters... as much as that Tigrane trained under Naaman during his Scout period.

 

 

I thought Tigrane's

reaction to the revelation that Cypher had been there

was a nice demonstration of the duality of the Dark Angels. He and his battle-brothers did what they could for Antigone and his two fellow survivors. Upon discovering that the trooper's

silence, even though he could not have possibly known who Cypher was,

though, led him to a merciless, even irrational stance. It didn't matter that the trooper in question could not have possibly known that it was

Cypher who helped them in their time of need.

It didn't even matter that Antigone could not have possibly known who

Cypher

was to begin with.

 

Interesting aside:

Tigrane was upset about not knowing Cypher was at said planet... but he was only a Veteran Sergeant at the time. Ergo, he had to have been a part of the First Company/Deathwing at some point. This more or less confirms that members of the Deathwing (but not the First Company any longer) can go back to the other Companies. This adds, I think, to the debates regarding the nature of the Company Veterans and the Chapter's rank structure.

 

 

I was glad to see that the Dark Angels have a reputation of respect and glory. It makes sense. In the ten thousand years since the Heresy, I doubt that the Dark Angels can claim to catch a Fallen more than once a decade or so. In addition, there are a million worlds in the Imperium. Given this, one has to wonder:

 

1. How many times can the Dark Angels or their Successors have departed without notice for unknown reasons in the middle of a battle?

2. How likely is it that the Imperium in general, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, or - to a lesser degree - the rest of the Adeptuys Astartes, will base their general impression off of these instances?

 

As such, I just don't buy the idea that the Dark Angels Chapter (or, rather, their reputation) is defined by this. I think that their day-to-day interaction with the Imperium is what you might expect from the Ultramarines... if the Ultramarines were more knightly-monkish and often led by seriously sinister Chaplains who are also... Interrogators. They would be defined by what they are in everyone's eyes - a First Founding Chapter, the name-bearer of the First of the Legiones Astartes, possessed of eminently pure Gene-seed.

 

At the point where suspicion of the Dark Angels is real and defining theme, you're dealing with Inquisitors of the Ordo Hereticus, the High Lords of Terra, the handful of surviving Imperial Guard officers with working knowledge of their "questionable withdrawals", and Space Marines who have experiences their darker side (e.g., Ragnar Blackmane).

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I don't think it's necessarily a case of

Naaman training Company Masters... as much as that Tigrane trained under Naaman during his Scout period.

 

 

I thought Tigrane's

reaction to the revelation that Cypher had been there

was a nice demonstration of the duality of the Dark Angels. He and his battle-brothers did what they could for Antigone and his two fellow survivors. Upon discovering that the trooper's

silence, even though he could not have possibly known who Cypher was,

though, led him to a merciless, even irrational stance. It didn't matter that the trooper in question could not have possibly known that it was

Cypher who helped them in their time of need.

It didn't even matter that Antigone could not have possibly known who

Cypher

was to begin with.

 

Interesting aside:

Tigrane was upset about not knowing Cypher was at said planet... but he was only a Veteran Sergeant at the time. Ergo, he had to have been a part of the First Company/Deathwing at some point. This more or less confirms that members of the Deathwing (but not the First Company any longer) can go back to the other Companies. This adds, I think, to the debates regarding the nature of the Company Veterans and the Chapter's rank structure.

 

 

I was glad to see that the Dark Angels have a reputation of respect and glory. It makes sense. In the ten thousand years since the Heresy, I doubt that the Dark Angels can claim to catch a Fallen more than once a decade or so. In addition, there are a million worlds in the Imperium. Given this, one has to wonder:

 

1. How many times can the Dark Angels or their Successors have departed without notice for unknown reasons in the middle of a battle cannot?

2. How likely is it that the Imperium in general, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, or - to a lesser degree - the rest of the Adeptuys Astartes, will base their general impression off of these instances?

 

As such, I just don't buy the idea that the Dark Angels Chapter (or, rather, their reputation) is defined by this. I think that their day-to-day interaction with the Imperium is what you might expect from the Ultramarines... if the Ultramarines were more knightly-monkish and often led by seriously sinister Chaplains who are also... Interrogators. They would be defined by what they are in everyone's eyes - a First Founding Chapter, the name-bearer of the First of the Legiones Astartes, possessed of eminently pure Gene-seed.

 

At the point where suspicion of the Dark Angels is real and defining theme, you're dealing with Inquisitors of the Ordo Hereticus, the High Lords of Terra, the handful of surviving Imperial Guard officers with working knowledge of their "questionable withdrawals", and Space Marines who have experiences their darker side (e.g., Ragnar Blackmane).

 

I agree, I think that these occasions are few and far between, mainly as those Fallen hardly ever appear.

 

 

as for Naaman training company-masters, I was not meaning that only Naaman trained warriors could rise, just that under his tutelage it is likely that several Masters were trained, and could be expanded on in the future,

 

[Phoebus]

On that second note, that's exactly what I meant as well. The way I read your original quote, it was almost as if

Naaman was training Company Masters AFTER they got that rank.

 

 

Silly of me, I know! :D

[Cypher 102]

Interesting aside:

Tigrane was upset about not knowing Cypher was at said planet... but he was only a Veteran Sergeant at the time. Ergo, he had to have been a part of the First Company/Deathwing at some point. This more or less confirms that members of the Deathwing (but not the First Company any longer) can go back to the other Companies. This adds, I think, to the debates regarding the nature of the Company Veterans and the Chapter's rank structure.

 

Perhaps he didn't know of the fallen or Cypher at the time. However he has been recently promoted to Company Master and thus let in on more secrets. He may have put two and two together from his memories and come looking for answers. Which would fit with him coming back after 25 years instead of doing all of this back then.

 

[Phoebus]

That's certainly a possibility.

 

The reason I can't agree with this, though, is that it requires me to believe that

the Dark Angels would show up in the same battlefield as Cypher coincidentally.

That strikes me as too much of a stretch.

 

Furthermore, Tigrane's reaction to the truth doesn't make sense if he hadn't been part of the Deathwing at the time. Let's face it, if he hadn't ascended to the First Company and

had happened to run into Cypher on that battlefield, he would have had no clue whatsoever who he was even if they met face to face. Unless Cypher told him, of course.

 

[Brother Degas]

its not a coincidence, just that Tigrane didnt know.

 

The interesting bit for me:

Cypher appears to know his legion are hunting him but still aids the IG. The question I have is did he do this to ensure that the line would still be there for the DA when they arrived or some other reason? The malediction cypher seems to be a loyalist....maybe this is one of the SGM secrets along with the secret legion idea.

 

[Cypher 102]

A possibility:

 

 

Cypher somehow knew that his former legion was coming to the warzone and showed up to toy with them. Or, the chapter had word he was going to be there but it's a big planet. The Deathwing may have been in the wrong place looking for him.

 

On your second point Tigrane may not have known of Cypher when he was just a veteran sergeant but learned when he was promoted and then proceeded to put the pieces together and realized that he needed to talk with this trooper to get the complete story. This trooper may have fallen beneath the notice of the Deathwing and Interrogator Chaplains at the time.

 

I personally agree with you though about veteran sergeants. All of mine have Deathwing badges and I started Dark Angels when you could make the veteran sergeants into Deathwing for 5 points more. I always imagined the Dark Angel career path to be scout, marine (tactical, assault, devastator), Deathwing terminator, veteran sergeant, company master, grand master, supreme grand master with increasing knowledge at each step. Unless of course there was a detour to the chaplaincy or librarium.

 

[Brother Degas]

 

cypher toying with the legion in that way and the way he speaks/comes across doesnt really fit imho.

 

 

I agree with your second point, I was just saying he didnt know what was going on at the time but someone more senior probably did.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Just a note,

Tigrane tells us that he was promoted a short while after the events on Proced V.

 

During the events, he was a Sergeant of the 6th Company, when he returns he is the Company-Master. I believe they were aware something fishy was going on, but not that it involved Cypher per se, he had suspicions, yes, but this did not mean he knew.

 

Its clear that if they had not held the line, the city would have fallen. Cyphers arrival saved the entire city from being overrun, he mentions that the DA will be too late unless they hold the line.

 

 

In all of it, he appears to be loyalist to the Emperor, hes attitude is that you would expect from a loyal Astartes, not a cynical mock loyalist. He is aware the DA are hunting him, and that they are coming, when they arrive he leaves and forces Antigone to swear an oath, or he kills him.

 

 

Because Antigone saved the city, he gets the title Hero of the Imperium. This, really, should be handed to Cypher as he was the one, not Antigone, that led the defence. Hence, Cypher is shown to be a hero.

 

[Brother Immolator]

Furthermore, Tigrane\'s reaction to the truth doesn\'t make sense if he hadn\'t been part of the Deathwing at the time. Let\'s face it, if he hadn\'t ascended to the First Company and

had happened to run into Cypher on that battlefield, he would have had no clue whatsoever who he was even if they met face to face. Unless Cypher told him, of course.

 

 

Interesting aside:

Tigrane was upset about not knowing Cypher was at said planet... but he was only a Veteran Sergeant at the time. Ergo, he had to have been a part of the First Company/Deathwing at some point. This more or less confirms that members of the Deathwing (but not the First Company any longer) can go back to the other Companies. This adds, I think, to the debates regarding the nature of the Company Veterans and the Chapter\'s rank structure.

 

 

Thats not true. It can make perfect sense and heres three factors:

 

N#1 and weakest argument, is how much you can take BL as canon. Its is notorious for its artistic license. But since this a bit irrelevant we go to:

N#2 Something which derives from the Angels of Darkness: When Astelans Bunker was breached the first inside were not Terminators, Chaplains or anyone from the inner circle. They were rank and file marines (quite possible a tactical squad) and they were distressed and confused. Until the deathwing and the Interrogator arrived send them off and took him. When the breach happened, they could have just gave a stand down order and simply cut off the bunker however they did not. Thereby the point that a squad was deployed with knowledge of what their target was (if the chapter even knew) is a bit moot. Not even the ravenwing know what they hunt for, more so for tactical marines i say.

 

Now that leads to some interesting facts: Even when they know their target the inner circle will allow the rank and file to arrest the subject. To me that means that the indoctrination in the chapter is so powerful that those who dont know, dont raise any questions. After all marines are bred to fight and be subordinate.

And if they do they will be polishing weapons for the rest of their existence (we must have a butt load of servitors).

 

EDIT: There is no info anywhere that the vet sergeants are members of the deathwing. One does not necessarily involve the other, he might as well have been a company vet and promoted to sergeant.

[Phoebus]

No disagreements re:

Cypher acting heroically.

 

 

The interesting bit for me:

Cypher appears to know his legion are hunting him but still aids the IG. The question I have is did he do this to ensure that the line would still be there for the DA when they arrived or some other reason? The malediction cypher seems to be a loyalist....maybe this is one of the SGM secrets along with the secret legion idea.

 

Cypher generally seems to be on the side of good. Historically, we have examples ranging from Fallen who follow him benefiting from the "And They Shall Know No Fear" rule, to the fact that his efforts during the 13th Black Crusade bolstered and benefited the Imperium rather than aiding Abaddon.

 

 

A possibility:

 

 

Cypher somehow knew that his former legion was coming to the warzone and showed up to toy with them. Or, the chapter had word he was going to be there but it's a big planet. The Deathwing may have been in the wrong place looking for him.

That's a very good point.

 

On your second point Tigrane may not have known of Cypher when he was just a veteran sergeant but learned when he was promoted and then proceeded to put the pieces together and realized that he needed to talk with this trooper to get the complete story. This trooper may have fallen beneath the notice of the Deathwing and Interrogator Chaplains at the time.

Very plausible/possible. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, it's just that - IMHO - I can't reconcile this idea with

Tigrane feeling Antigone's decision had cost them Cypher. Tigrane can be miffed all he wants, but without being a member of the Deathwing, there is no way he would have known to capture Cypher.

 

That is, I seriously doubt that standing orders for rank-and-file Dark Angels - those who haven't joined the Deathwing - is to kill/capture Space Marines (Dark Angels or otherwise) they don't personally recognizeon sight.

 

 

I personally agree with you though about veteran sergeants. All of mine have Deathwing badges and I started Dark Angels when you could make the veteran sergeants into Deathwing for 5 points more. I always imagined the Dark Angel career path to be scout, marine (tactical, assault, devastator), Deathwing terminator, veteran sergeant, company master, grand master, supreme grand master with increasing knowledge at each step. Unless of course there was a detour to the chaplaincy or librarium.

Kind of the same for me. I don't want to get into it, though, since that's neither here nor there where the original topic is concerned. ;)

[Brother Immolator]

Where the Chaplaincy is concerned, I think Battle-Brothers are chosen for that calling before the decision to induct them into the Deathwing ever comes up. Their big step is when the time comes to decide if they're worthy of becoming Interrogator-Chaplains or not.

 

Indeed, only interrogators are in the deathwing.