Project Thunderhawk

[maverike_prime]

Oi! Wow guys, I am soooo sorry for not posting in the last week or so. I actually haven't been that busy. I've been working on a couple things, and just forgot to post. So let's get this update on the Thunderhawk under way.

 

Last time I posted I showed you that the main body had been completed and assembled. So that just leaves the Tail, the main wings and engines, the upper stabilizers, and the main cannon. No problem, right?

 

Well... more or less.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ppmoaCM3o2Y/UD10P2JaQYI/AAAAAAAAAWY/qxHmWlK1v44/s1600/DSCN0033.JPG

 

As you can see I finished and attached the tail. Sort of. It turns out the model was leaning to the side a bit when I glued the tail in place so the tail fins are somewhat crooked compared to the main body.

 

As you can see I've attached the left main wing to the body and the engine components to the wing. There are some gaps between parts of the engine and the wing though that I will need to look at very closely when I start translating this monster into styrene.

 

Now I'm sure you're asking "So why haven't you started on the left wing?" Well, I have started on it. 3 times. I don't know what happened but a couple of the largest parts of the left wing don't match up size wise. You can see this massive 1/4" gap between the panels of the bottom of the wing. You can't see it from the image, but there's a comparable gap between the edges toward the front of the panels as well.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IS552EgR-28/UD11tsIiaKI/AAAAAAAAAWg/NS-HYajAz9A/s1600/DSCN0039.JPG

 

I've taken the parts into photoshop, lined them up, made sure they fit, and have printed off new parts that are glued to cardstock right now. Time will tell if this fourth attempt at the wing succeeds or not.

[ChromeZephyr]

Wow. Quite a lot of pre-work before getting to the actual work. ;) I applaud your dedication (or insanity, whichever).

 

On the subjects of LEDs and their installation, Terragenesis has a good tutorial on how to set them up, here. I'm not much for electronics other than playing with the finished product and was able to understand it, so it might be of some use to you.

[maverike_prime]

Wow. Quite a lot of pre-work before getting to the actual work. ;) I applaud your dedication (or insanity, whichever).

I think it's a bit of both honestly. While I was quit tempted to just jump into the styrene, one look at the plans was all it took to make me realise that I would be working with different styles of styrene, different thicknesses, and different shapes. So I want to be as frugal as I can be with the project. So I need to figure out what I need first. Hence why I'm building it in cardboard first.

 

On the subjects of LEDs and their installation, Terragenesis has a good tutorial on how to set them up, here. I'm not much for electronics other than playing with the finished product and was able to understand it, so it might be of some use to you.

 

Ohh, that should help. Thanks for the link.

[ChromeZephyr]

I fully understand your reasoning for doing it the way you're doing it, it's just waay more work than a lazy sod like me will do without a paycheck as motivation. Hence why you will have a Thunderhawk, and I won't. And you're welcome for the link.

[maverike_prime]

Wow...

 

Okay so I took a new job a couple weeks ago. I knew it was going to give me more hours so I'd have less free time for 40k. What I didn't know was just how much it was going to get me in terms of extra hours. A month ago I was averaging 22 to 28 hours a week plus 10-12 hours for school work and classes. In the last three weeks I've consistently been scheduled for 32-35 hours a week, and due to a combination of work load and staffing issues I've been working 45+ hours a week plus the 10-12 hours of school and homework, and I've had to travel a fair amount for training for the new job. So all in all I've been pulling 50-60 hours a week for work and generally when I got home I have just enough energy to log online for half an hour to forty minutes to check my email, catch up with a couple folks, and then promptly crash for the night. Now things seem to be settling down a bit and I'm getting a bit of normalcy back in my life.

 

So I've effectively hit a dead end in building the paper hammer thunderhawk.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i293xmt6Z4w/UFKQ-w8FO4I/AAAAAAAAAXE/NhfC9K2ngIU/s1600/DSCN5221.JPG

it's not that I messed up or have to start over, it's that I've basically reached the limit of working with cardboard and the medium simply will not work the remaining parts. I've also reached the end of the template, which is frankly somewhat confusing since it doesn't include instructions for building the heavy bolter mounts and sponsons.

 

But this basically concluded phase 1 of the thunderhawk project; building the paper hammer version.

 

So what's next? Well now I get to go back over the model and search for problems, areas where the thickness of the cardboard creates problems, areas where the parts just flat out don't work. So what am I talking about?

 

Well there are a lot of places where the cardboard stacks up in such a way that parts that should mesh up, have a gap between them.

Like so:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mP8wzpDvWac/UFKVsVOSGfI/AAAAAAAAAXo/vXSsXW9sND8/s1600/DSCN5229.JPG

Another problem I encountered was that cardboard as a tendency to warp causing a bending in odd ways. 2 really great examples are on the top of the paper hammer thunderhawk:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-E7Zurg12JDg/UFKWagK-kGI/AAAAAAAAAXw/tHs8Lxgr598/s1600/DSCN5232.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kCtSDEJSbM4/UFKWbVj4tjI/AAAAAAAAAX4/5S-HnmndkhE/s1600/DSCN5233.JPG

The upper housing warped inwards, causing the Thunderhawk cannon mounting to angle inwards while the upper body warped inwards as well. A liberal application of glue allows the upper mounting to be attached to the upper body, but if you look you can see the warping.

[ChromeZephyr]

Would you be able to kitbash the non-turbo laser weaponry from actual GW parts? Or is that something you're trying to avoid? If the latter, Bugbait on Warseer has built lascannons and autocannons from stuff, and it's rather good looking. Maybe that'll help you a little.

[maverike_prime]

Would you be able to kitbash the non-turbo laser weaponry from actual GW parts? Or is that something you're trying to avoid? If the latter, Bugbait on Warseer has built lascannons and autocannons from stuff, and it's rather good looking. Maybe that'll help you a little.

 

As I build the plasticard version I am absolutely going to us GW bitz for a lot of stuff. I'm defiantly going to have two pilots in the cockpit. Those will most likely be Storm Talon/Raven pilots (as a side note anyone got a couple to sell/trade?). I'm going to get my hands on a Shadow sword kit and see how it's cannon messures up to the paper hammer model of the Thunderhawk. Like wise I'm going to convert Land Raider sponsons into the Heavy Bolter sponsons for the plastic version. So yeah, I can absolutely use GW parts. Just cardboard only bends so much with out help. One trick I've used several times along the way is cutting a series of 3mm slits along the length of a piece of cardboard and then rolling it up that way. This allows the cardboard to bend and roll a great deal more, but also ruins any details on the outer surface, and changes the diameter of the rolled surface which in this sort of model means you have to accommodate for that change with other parts that go around the rolled piece.

 

Rest assured, I am not done with this project.

 

Though I am hitting another snag: Electronics. Anyone good with electronics, namely LED circuits mind helping me out?

[Zynk Kaladin]

Though I am hitting another snag: Electronics. Anyone good with electronics, namely LED circuits mind helping me out?

 

Wiring up some LEDs isn't too bad, but I'll try to detail the steps as best as I can. I'll try to limit my techno babble to this inefficient analog speech. Hopefully I can be helpful and educational for once.

 

Now my 1st question is: do you know how to solder? If no, then you can approach wiring the circuit in two different ways:

1) You can spend the money on an inexpensive soldering iron (around $15 ) and learn how to solder. If you plan to do circuit things like this in the future, I highly recommend learning.

2) You can buy wires/parts that attach to each other via male/female connections. For my discussion I will go this route.

 

Some basic electronic concepts:

Voltage[V or E]: The potential difference between two points. In less techno-nerdery terms, think of a bucket of water held above your head. You know that if you tip the bucket, water will flow. Therefore there is a potential for waterflow between the bucket and the ground. Or you can think of it like soccer. Weak feet will kick the ball a shorter distance. The professionals can kick the ball REALLY FLIPPIN FAR. Old people use E for voltage because they're old. ;)

 

Current: The flow of electrons through stuff. This is analogous to the water flowing out of the bucket or the kicked soccer ball moving in the air.

 

Resistance[R]: As it's name suggests, it resists current flow. This is analogous to a pipe with varying thicknesses. A thicker pipe allows for more water to flow through it and, conversely, a thinner pipe has less water flow.

 

The Omnissiah: Offer prayers to The Omnissiah. VERY IMPORTANT

 

Put it all together and you have a nice simple equation that can solve EVERYTHING in a circuit, Ohm's Law: V=IR. (E=IR for old people)

 

BOOM! You're a tech priest. Welcome to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Flesh is inefficient, so start choppin' your limbs off! Ice cream on Sundays. :lol:

 

Now on to the hardware:

 

Power source: Two AA alkaline batteries is a good power source for an LED circuit. I recommend getting a battery holder like this or this for replacing the batteries and ease of wiring. Radio shack should have these as well. In terms of the circuit, this will give it a 3V (volt) power source. You can also use a 9V battery with it's respective housing.

 

Wires: You can buy spools of wire at Radio Shack, clip 'em, strip 'em and solder them to your components. If you do not wish to go this route, you can pick up some female wires like these. This allows you to slot your components like the battery holder wires, resistors, and LEDs. Then you can tape them with electrical tape. Note how the battery holder has a red wire and a black wire. Well, red is the positive wire and black is the negative. This is important to know and remember and I'll touch upon it in the LED section.

 

Resistors: For LEDs I usually put in a 330 ohm resistor, but in your case a 220 ohm is probably better. The resistor is useful because it decreases the current through the LED. Too much current in the LED can break it, which is undesirable. Too little current and the LED will be very dim. Calculating the resistance requires knowing the LED's voltage drop and safe operating current, but as an engineer(undergraduate), we can hand wave this via approximation and experience.

 

LED: Now the actual Light Emitting Diode. A diode essentially only allows current to flow in 1 direction, so it is VERY important to know and recognize which side of the LED is positive and negative. Here is a nice picture. As you can see, the side with the cut is negative. Another way to tell is the LED has a wire longer than the other. The long one is positive, and the short is negative. Remember the battery holder's wires?

 

Putting it all together: positive battery holder wire(red) -> 220ohm resistor -> positive side of LED(long)... then negative side of LED(short) -> Negative battery holder wire(black)

 

http://www.robotroom.com/Pumpkin/LED1.gif

 

Notice how the resistance of the resistor increased because of the 9V source. V=IR tells us that if we want to limit current flow and have a higher voltage source, we must increase the resistance. My 220 ohm resistance recommended was for the 3V source. Hopefully this clears up any potential confusion about the picture.

 

For multiple LEDs you follow the same exact resistor+LED pattern with your 1 power source. Obviously, with a crapton of LEDs the wiring can get a bit crazy, which is why I recommend soldering. Then you can trim the wires down to size and solder them to the components.

 

Remember to anoint the circuit in holy oils and pray to it's machine spirit. I hope this helped, or at least put everything into perspective.

 

EDIT: formatting

[maverike_prime]

*see the original post he made*

 

 

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Damn dude. That was like 50 times more then I was expecting when I asked. And it defiantly helps no question about it. However what I want to do, electronics wise is somewhat more complicated.... make that convoluted, then simply making 2 or 3 lights light up. Lets look at this quick and ugly diagram I threw together:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/maverike_prime/Warhammer/100thanderhawk03-2.gif

 

I want to have 3 seperate and controllable circuits, but just one power source. Now given the size of the Thunderhawk, dropping a pair of 9Vs isn't an issue should that be needed. So we'll just put the point of power requirements on the back burner for the moment.

 

So three circuits:

 

Circuit 1:

a series of 3 groupings of white and blue leds. These LEDs will be controlled by a toggle switch. When switched on they will pulse on and off. By all estimates I'm looking at 18 LEDs in total for this circuit. These are the Blue and White dots in the engines in the diagram.

 

Circuit 2:

Probably a single large red LED at the base of the Thunderhawk cannon. This LED will be on a switch so when I press the switch it will light up and stay lit for as long as I hold the switch. When I release it, it stops glowing. I've heard this referred to has a Deadman's switch, but honestly no idea if that's the proper term for it.

 

Circuit 3: a series of white LEDs in the forward section. 4 on the embarkation deck to provide illumination to that deck (Think the lights in the Helicopter in the move Predator), then a series of 4 lights in the cock pit. 1 light will be the over head lamp for the crew while the other 3 will be smaller lights that will provide illumination to the control panels. This circuit will be on a toggle switch.

 

 

 

Now circuits 2 and 3 I don't think I'll have any problem wiring up. It's circuit 1 that I feel as though I'm in over my head, but only just. Like it'd be with in my reach if I could just find a box to stand on to reach up and grab it.

[Adeptus-Alaska]

this is awesome. and it's nice to see another PRIME ;)

[maverike_prime]

this is awesome. and it's nice to see another PRIME :P

I was here first :P

 

Side topic. The Transparent green tubes in the Necron warriors kit. I've seen people using different colored and different lengths of those before. Does anyone have information about where I can get these? or what I am actually looking for?

[ChromeZephyr]

Plastruct makes different colors of fluorescent rod in different sizes. Check with your local hobby/model railroad shop, or you can get their catalog.

[maverike_prime]

Plastruct makes different colors of fluorescent rod in different sizes. Check with your local hobby/model railroad shop, or you can get their catalog.

 

Thanks Chrome.

 

So I've got the Paperhammer Thunderhawk built. And now I'm working on the next phase of the plan, preparing to build the plastic one. Now as I've said I want to build in a series of LEDs to the model to light it up in various ways. Well, I've never really worked with electronics before so I've been reading up on them and learning how to build simple circuits to accomplish what I want. I'm not ready to begin laying out the Thunderhawk circuits, but I am moving in that direction. One of the best tutorials I've found for setting up simple circuits can be found here ==> TerraGenesis.

 

Now first off: I am never ordering parts from Radio Shack again! There are a couple reasons for this. I placed an order for 56 various parts (LEDs, switches, Battery clips, ect). Last Monday I received a package. Consisting of 5 of the parts I ordered. I contacted customer service to ask about it. Turns out Radio Shack does not use a central clearing house for it's online orders, instead shipping orders out on a first available basis from several warehouses. What does that mean? Well instead of getting 1 package with all my parts in it, I received a series of 7 packages spread out over the week.

 

The second thing, in the order I ordered 1 unit, of 5 9-volt battery clips. What did I receive? 5 units of 5 9-Volt battery clips. So... not only does Radio shack use a piss poor system for filling orders, but they can't even get the orders right. Wow, just total fail!

 

Anyway, I got the parts in and made a first effort to accomplish installing the LED into something:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wro9sb9smuc/UGPHoFzoMsI/AAAAAAAAAZA/a_p9bchXCow/s1600/DSCN5255.JPG

[ChromeZephyr]

Imagine working for RS. Take that kind of jiggery-pokery and applying it to getting your paycheck. Yeah. That didn't last long.

 

Glad the TG tuts helped you out, I've been putting off playing around with it for a while. Too much stuff already on my desk to add a soldering gun and LEDs. :)

 

Congrats on a successful test with the cannon, it'll be awesome when the TH is finished and doing that against your opponent's army.

[dizzy-xc]

What a labor of love, maverike_prime! Nice job of sticking with it. AAbout how many hours do you estimate the build time of the paper TH? And also, why not use thin pastic sheeting with internal wood bracing instead of cardboard? I'll be eagerly looking forward to more posts from you on this...

 

Edited to remove a request for link.

[maverike_prime]

removed

[maverike_prime]

thanks.

[maverike_prime]

What a labor of love, maverike_prime! Nice job of sticking with it. AAbout how many hours do you estimate the build time of the paper TH? And also, why not use thin pastic sheeting with internal wood bracing instead of cardboard? I'll be eagerly looking forward to more posts from you on this...

 

Because I have the cardboard and it's basically free. Plus Since I'd never built this template I needed to build it at least once before I start working with a different medium.

[AJB2K3]

Looking good (I'm crap with scratch building) However I must point out the R=V/I can often give the wrong resistance (not enough current to L.E.D's)

When Calculating resistance

 

1, Buy led's with same forward voltage,

2, Calculate the current required by all operating L.E.D's

3, Get a Battery (sounds mundane but this will effect calculations and resistance!) Maybe 9V PP3!

4, V actually is equal to Vs (battery) - Vl (forward voltage of L.E.D's (Never Ever call them bulbs as they have Not Ever been Bulbs))

5, Take the resulting Voltage from step 4 and devide it buy the current draw of the L.E.D's from step 2

6, find closest matching resistor to result of step 5 (ok to go a little higher in value but never lower)

 

Will be watching with interest!

[maverike_prime]

So I was working on the Shadowsword today. Well the left side of it anyway. I installed a pair of yellow LEDs in the head lamps, a green LED on the Lascannon turret as a targeting array and a red LED in the base of the lascannon barrel. Drilling that barrel out was a royal pain in the posterior.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A4uTQF4-cfY/UGYga5GgDSI/AAAAAAAAAZc/QWbCpXdwTzg/s1600/DSCN5259.JPG

Now there is a couple hick ups in the work. Firstly, the turret has 2 pairs of wires running through it's axis. What does this mean? Well it means that the turret barrely turns. It kind of turns, like 15 degrees or so. I can force it to turn more, but I risk damaging the connections inside the turret. The second problem is the sides of the lascannon barrel. In the process of drilling it out they were thinned down considerably, and the LED at the base of the barrel glows through the sides of the barrel. I'm hoping a layer of chaos black will cover this up.

 

Sadly, there was another problem. In the process of adding in these circuits, I accidentally short circuited the red LED in the main cannon and it blew out. So the Shadow Sword cannon will no longer light up. ;)

[maverike_prime]

So I finished the Shadow sword. Well finished installing the LEDs anyway. Installing the LEDs was a challenge but not one of ability. The ability to insert the LEDs and affix them to the model required only moderate modifications of normal modeling skills. The challenge was putting the wires in and making sure I didn't cross a circuit somewhere and was still able to assemble the model.

 

I'm sure you are wondering why I have this tagged with Project Thunderhawk. Well this was intended as a case study in practice for the thunderhawk. For the Thunderhawk I intend to install 3 circuits. 1 will comprise a series of 7 LEDs in the cockpit and embarkation deck which will be on an on/off switch. The second circuit will be installed in the Thunderhawk cannon and be controlled by a monetary switch so when I push the switch it lights up and when I release it, it shuts off. The third circuit I'm still studying up on how to build but that will be the engines.

 

Now in the shadowsword I installed one circuit that comprises 4 LEDs and are controlled by an On/off switch. This is the Headlights. Sounds a lot like the circuit I plan to install in the Cockpit and embarkation deck of the Thunderhawk, doesn't it?

 

Then there's the turrets of the Shadow sword. They light up and are controlled by a monetary switch. Just like I'm planning to do with the thunderhawk cannon.

 

[Father Mapple]

This is a really great project. But are you using uninsulated wires? That's a recipe for disaster. You should buy moderately shielded ones with the rubber insulation instead of bare speaker wire, or whatever. Get a wire stripper and some caps too, you should have the room in the empty hollows of the plastic housings.

 

I'm a law student, not an electrical engineer, but if you're shorting things out by moving them, it might be better to make more single circuits at a time than going for multiples to ensure the integrity of each circuit individually.

 

I may be way off base on the wiring, but whatever happens with that, your scratch building skills and planning are phenomenal!

[maverike_prime]

This is a really great project. But are you using uninsulated wires? That's a recipe for disaster. You should buy moderately shielded ones with the rubber insulation instead of bare speaker wire, or whatever. Get a wire stripper and some caps too, you should have the room in the empty hollows of the plastic housings.

 

I'm a law student, not an electrical engineer, but if you're shorting things out by moving them, it might be better to make more single circuits at a time than going for multiples to ensure the integrity of each circuit individually.

 

I may be way off base on the wiring, but whatever happens with that, your scratch building skills and planning are phenomenal!

 

The wire is insulated and any spots the insulation doesn't cover I've been covering in either electrical tape or hot glue. I think, and putting very big emphasis on the word "think" here because I honestly do not know, is that a connection physically broke at some point during assembly of the super structure. If I shake the tank I can just barely hear a metal on plastic sound that isn't from the main body where the majority of the wiring is. So I think a wire broke or a connection came loose or something. In either event, the only way to fix it would require tearing the cannon apart and it won't survive that operation.

[Stonewall]

What size wire are you using? 30ga solid core wire works as well as any small enamel coated magnet wire.

[maverike_prime]

What size wire are you using? 30ga solid core wire works as well as any small enamel coated magnet wire.

 

um... I know the wire is 22 gauge. At least that's what it lists on the spool.