corai Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hail Brothers, I'm building a heresy era Imperial Fist army 9I know, I know, who isn't right!) and to help me avoid the temptation to blow my salary on those lovely FW heresy era tanks, I've decided to scratch another army itch I've had for a while and build a boarding action themed force (possibly set during the battle of Phall - The Crimson Fist was very good!). This means no vehicles really, other than dreadnoughts and a storm eagle (I'm thinking assault ship that carried the bulk of the boarding party over). I'm planning to build a few drop pods as boarding torpedoes (are there any reference pics for these?) But why am I really here, to ask whetehr there is any place for space marine scouts in these actions. I've had a great idea for how to convert some heresy era scouts, complete with helmets (for all that breathing in space goodness) but am just not sure they really fit with the theme. Is there any documented history of scouts being used in these confines? I can see the possibility (they would obviously be on board, certainly during the battle of Phall when the aim was not to fight a load of IW in space, but get to Isstvan for a ground action) but I'm not sure they would have been deployed to the enemy ships. Can anyone help? Cheers Dan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 First things first. Boarding torpedo's. They're big. Really big. As in, probably about 60 metres long, according to Battlefleet Koronus, capable of fitting dozens of men. To put it another way, take a look at some Battlefleet Gothic pictures, and notice the torpedo launchers on the Imperial ships. Those are what's used to launch torpedos. They're a little too big to be represented by drop-pods. What I might suggest instead, maybe instead of the Storm Eagle, is a Caestus Assault Ram, essentially a smaller, more controllable boarding torpedo. As for Scouts, they might be used occasionally, but definitely not too much. After all, when you're boarding an enemy ship, you want tough, well-equipped veterans who have as much close-quarters offensive power as possible. Scouts are kinda-tough, decently equipped trainees primarily used for recon. I could see some being attached to Tactical squads, so they can gain the experience while still having the full Astartes to provide the brunt of the offensive force, but probably not as independant squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I can't remember much mention of scouts anywhere in the HH books so far - that's not to say they're not there, there just hasn't been much said about them. I'd agree with the Lord_Caerolion's comments - Vets and full marines are much more useful in a boarding action than scouts. If you're keen to employ them in your army you could always justify them as saboteurs, knocking out weapons systems whilst the main force struggles through the fighting around the bridge. Or for use in areas where power/TDA armoured-marines would be really restricted, down in the bowels of the ship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would say scouts would be used in boarding actions but probably wouldn't be doing too much of the brutal close confined combat, that would be left to the full battle brothers. Scout squads would more than likely be used as skirmishers in boarding actions using hit and run tactics or could follow the main assault with explosive charges and planting them in locations vital to ship function and then withdrawing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Thanks for the suggestions guys. I think I'll slapa scout squad in there for some variety (probably not sniper scouts though, much as I'd like to!) I hadn't realised that boarding torpedoes were so large, so scratch that idea. However, upon further reading, it turns out the dreadclaw drop pod was originally designed for ship to ship actions,so I'll be converting up some of them in loyalist colours chewing their way through a hull instead. And whilst I still think I can justify a Storm Eagle as a boarding craft/shuttle, I think I'll have to get an assault Ram in thier too. I don't know why I didn't think of the assault ram straight away! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Well, from what I remember, Scouts can get shotguns, can't they? Squad of scouts with those, and some melta-bombs, and you've got a perfect saboteur squad. That, or use the Black Templar rules (they are from the Imperial Fists, after all), and use the Crusader squads, with Marines and Scouts in the same squad. You've still got access to the Caestus, get to play around with Sigismund (he is the Emperors Champion, after all), and your Scouts get some serious muscle to protect them during their saboteur duties. Squads of 10 Astartes for your "line squads", and squads of 5 Neophytes and 5 "bodyguards" to be your saboteurs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Shotgun scouts could be cool. Navy Armsmen always seem to carry shotguns. In that vein, you could maybe add some allied IG Veteran squads all armed with shotties. I think its the Veterans who can be equipped with them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 First of all, scouts were definitely present Pre-Heresy. There are many examples in the Collected Visions books (a couple of examples below). http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4038/sleamereconsquad.jpg http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40kfanon/images/e/e1/Drask_Scout_Squad.jpg Also, there have been many examples of Scouts being used in boarding actions in BL books ('Daemon World', the Night Lord trilogy, 'Space Marine' to name but 3), and there is no reason to think Pre-Heresy would be any different. Of course you would have the 'line breakers' (mk2 armour, with shields) who would be the first out of the torpedo and take all of the incoming fire and have some chance of survival. But, after that you need units to recon the massive ships, and make their way speedily to critical points of the ship to carry out sabotage - scouts would be ideal for that role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3143996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalos Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 If you want another look at Imperial boarding vessels check, there's a cutscene in Fire Warrior that shows them being fired. Again, they look pretty big. Giant frieght containers attached via elastic bands... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3144246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaarrkk Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Ah exactly what I wanted answering, were there scouts during the HH so thanks for the answer Pacfic81 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3144422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Advanced Space Crusade says yes, Scouts do board things even when its silly :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3145056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 ...after that you need units to recon the massive ships, and make their way speedily to critical points of the ship to carry out sabotage - scouts would be ideal for that role. Totally agree with this. I also dont think it is silly for scouts to be placed in danger; it is a culling process where the strongest will survive to the day of full Initiation. (Good to have your knowledge and good ideas back with us Pac81!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3145340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hmmm that's the first time I've noticed the Imperial Necklaces on the WE scouts. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3146711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Cairn Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 during the advent of the great crusade the flesh craters skill was at its height, most legionaries were taken and transformed into full marines before deployment. also in any void borne warfare, it stands to reason to have fully equipped power armor to deal with the vacuum, in the case of catastrophic failure of a system (hull breach). Would be and interesting model to develop tho :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258550-any-place-for-scouts-during-a-heresy-era-boarding-action/#findComment-3147120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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