Bayaz Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I've just discovered this forum a couple of weeks ago, and enjoyed reading, but just signed up now. I'm a long time 40k player (since the late 80s), but didn't play for a bit more than a decade until taking it up again a few years ago. I started off with a standard marines list, but switched to Blood Angels when the most recent codex came out as I love the more in your face style (and I love my Assault Marines). That said, I'm keen for some advice/discussion with the peeps on this here forum about alpha strike BA lists; it seems they may be far less dangerous (did I say dangerous? I meant possible) with the new reserve rules. Can a serious alpha strike still be done with a BA list? My alpha strike BA list in 5th ed consisted mostly of deep striking Assault Squads, Drop Pod Dreds, and Outflanking Baals. The new reserve rules preclude these sorts of shenanigans, which is probably for the best to be honest; starting large amounts of games with nobody deploying anything was getting tedious. Forced deployment of some stuff... is good. But... alpha strike... is it still viable as a primary strategy? How could the deep striking units be balanced out (when they're a majority points wise) with stuff on table that won't just die and might possibly compliment the reserve forces? These questions plague me! Should I break all my assault marines into plastic gravel and stick them in the recycle bin, or is there another way? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 We can do MAD stuff with drop pods! Think 3 drop dreads, and 6 troop choices in drop pods, two of those could be DC dreads if a third is 10 dc Turn one, 5 drop pods appear in the enemy DZ <_< Expensive mind..... But fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3144136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 They most certainly are alive. I brought an all Pod list to a tournament last weekend and took 2nd. It consisted of 18 plasma shots and 13 melta shots on turn 1. Along with some snap shotting Storm Bolters and bolt pistols. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3144498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 If you have the drop pods then run it. I'd be tempted to spam plasma. Assault Squad with 2x Plasmaguns, Sergeant with 2x Plasma Pistols & a Melta Bomb = 235 points. Combat Squad as & when. Instead of Baals I'd go with more units in Drop Pods. If you had, say 9 units in Pods you could still null deploy. In your turn 5 Drop Pods come in & the fun begins! Throw a list together :devil: - Dallas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3144703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 sergeants can have 2 plasma pistols? Anyways, drop pods have always been a useful tool to me(i have 3) but have never played with a full drop pod list. may consider it now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3145139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The BRB says yes, the codex? Says yes two He swaps his bolt pistol for one, and his boltgun/chainsword for the other. How does three pods work out? I'm kinda worried its "too much" up front unsupported Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3145155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yeah, he can have 2 Plasma Pistols. P.52 also says if you have 2 pistols you can fire both, Gunslinger. It's probably the only time I'd do it, you're packing as much melta/plasma into that 10 man squad as possible. On reflection, I think C:SM or C:SW does this list better, C:SM can have scoring Sternguard, which I'd definitely take! Also, they can have 12 man pods, 10 man pods sucks because you have to drop a special weapon to get your SHP in there. Plus, if you drop 9 Sternguard with say Corbulo you can't combat squad & shoot at two different targets. C:SW can have Terminators in pods & they can equip them with combi-weapons & mixed assault weapons, bloody cheesy wolves :( Dreads in pods are pretty bad, don't bother. The only set up I'd ever consider would be. Furioso with Frag Cannon & Heavy Flamer. Even then, he's mediocre compared to say 6 combi-melta/plasma Sternguard. - Dallas Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3145551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Well, with three pods it actually works out pretty great. I'll normally run a Sternguard with all plasma or all melta(depends on my mood lol), a tactical squad(for objectives), and a furioso with magna graple. You can't assault the turn you drop in but with the graple(which works more often than you'd think) you can get a vehicle into base contact and automatically take swings on it in the assault phase with your s10 fists. works wonders:) Normally what comes in tends to be closer to a suicide squad(so keep em cheapish) but it helps keep your other stuff unmolested while you cross the field. I personally run 3 or none at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3145824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 you can get a vehicle into base contact and automatically take swings on it in the assault phase with your s10 fists. Can't do that mate. Models must stop 1" from an enemy model/vehicle. Since you're coming in via Drop Pod you can't charge it that turn. Magna Grapples are at best a weaker meltagun & just there for fun - unless you can pull off something dastardly like forcing a Death or Glory on the vehicle being dragged :). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3145874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Don't have my codex on me but I believe it states that you can pull it into base contact with you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Don't have my codex on me but I believe it states that you can pull it into base contact with you. C:BA p60 The target does not change facing and will stop if it comes within 1" of difficult terrain, impassable terrain, another vehicle (friendly or enemy) or a unit locked in close combat. Treat any non vehicle unit the target moves over as having been tank shocked. It's possible that it was RAI to be able to reel in a target into CC but it isn't RAW as the dread itself is a vehicle. What we can do is drag any vehicle (including pods, flyers and other walkers) and force a death or glory on a friendly unit or tankshock an enemy unit that most likely will not want to attempt that. With the improved disembark from pods it's a lot easier to pull something like that off. Line up a squad in front of the dread and have him fire through the gaps if you are using template weapons. EDIT: When it comes to alpha striking I see great synergy potential for pod lists with furioso dreads , simple MB vanguard, and locator beacons. Probably want to take DC as well. After some play testing of bike and terminator spam it's the only BA list I'm excited about trying since it's the one thing we can pull off better than other marine codex. Another dread and another 3 pods is in the pipe.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 My current BA list is very close to an alpha strike list, but not an all-pod one. 2 RAS (one with fist, one with hammer), 7 sternguard in a pod (fist, melta, 3 combi meltas), 10 man tac squad with rhino, 5 vanguard vets with packs, jump librarian, jump priest, Baal. I'm about to experiment by cutting the rhino for a pod, and some more gear on the vanguard (either another PW, or 3 meltabombs). It can work, just don't expect to have a lot on the table at the end of the game Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barduck Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 you know, there is one part I don't understand in the rulebook, in the open topped vehicles explenation. There is an entry there that states that all open topped vehicles are to be threated as assault vehicles, which doesn't really make sence if yuo look at drop pods. So either they screwed up with the rules or you can now assault when coming out of a drop pod. After all, it's not your assaulting units that did a deepstrike move, it's a drop pod that fell out of the skies with a "is threated as a deepstrike movement" in regards of scattering. I know, that doesn't make sence either, like I said I feel they screwed up with rules there (this wasn't in there in the previous rules version) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 you know, there is one part I don't understand in the rulebook, in the open topped vehicles explenation. There is an entry there that states that all open topped vehicles are to be threated as assault vehicles, which doesn't really make sence if yuo look at drop pods. So either they screwed up with the rules or you can now assault when coming out of a drop pod. After all, it's not your assaulting units that did a deepstrike move, it's a drop pod that fell out of the skies with a "is threated as a deepstrike movement" in regards of scattering. I know, that doesn't make sence either, like I said I feel they screwed up with rules there (this wasn't in there in the previous rules version) Can't assault on the turn you arrive from reserves, it's as simple as that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Also if you look at the pods rules it explicitly states that you cannot assault when you arrive via a Pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 In smaller games... say 1500.. You can save yourself Elite slots and points by taking 5 man Honour Guard squads with 4 Meltas for quite cheap. The *free* Novitiate helps them survive Edit: I am strongly considering this for a 1500pt tournament... Librarian (Divination) 100 100 Honour Guard 4 Meltaguns Drop Pod 190 Furioso Dreadnought Extra Armour Frag Cannon Drop Pod 175 Furioso Dreadnought Extra Armour Frag Cannon Drop Pod 175 8 Death Company Power Axe x 2 Power Fist Drop Pod 250 10 Assault Marines 2 x Plasma Guns Lightning Claw Drop Pod 225 10 Assault Marines 2 x Plasma Guns Lightning Claw Drop Pod 225 Death Company Dreadnought Drop Pod 160 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourMumRang Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'll chime in here with some thoughts on Allies. I've been toying around with using some GK allies to augment that first turn Alpha Strike. So you have your 3+ Drop Podding units hitting the enemy turn 1. Not bad I suppose. But why not make it even tougher? Throw in Mordrak (he can only shoot but you're in position for a good charge turn 2), a Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator and maybe some Interceptors and you have just thrown (via 30" shunt) a lot of stuff in the face of the opponent turn 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258577-alpha-strike-is-it-still-a-real-option/#findComment-3146861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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