Captain Cirrius Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hey all, I've decided to take another crack at my Sons of Retribution Chapter (which I wrote years ago...YEARS AGO!), but wanted to ask if an idea I had was feasible. I don't like the idea of fielding the "bad guys" (well not with this army anyway ;) ), but visually I wanted to get away from an overly imperial look, and I don't really want them to be a part of the imperium at all. Is a plausible that a "renegade" chapter didn't leave to join chaos, but rather left because they didn't agree with the Imperium's ideals? I still want them to do good for humanity, and they still hate chaos with everything in them, but they choose to fight THEIR way and for THEIR reasons. Is this a plausible/possible idea? Thanks :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Let's break this down into two parts: Is a plausible that a "renegade" chapter didn't leave to join chaos, but rather left because they didn't agree with the Imperium's ideals? I still want them to do good for humanity, and they still hate chaos with everything in them, but they choose to fight THEIR way and for THEIR reasons. Is this a plausible/possible idea? Thanks :) Yes, I believe it is. Many stories to be found in various GW/FW/BL publications describe Chapters driven to the brink of extinction by Imperial forces, while leaving you with the distinct impression that they weren't so much "fallen" as "inconvenient". Whether due to being on the losing side of a battle or the wrong side of some Administratum (usually the Ecclesiarchy or some High Lord). Hey all, I've decided to take another crack at my Sons of Retribution Chapter (which I wrote years ago...YEARS AGO!), but wanted to ask if an idea I had was feasible. I don't like the idea of fielding the "bad guys" (well not with this army anyway ;) ), But everybody is "bad" in the Warhammer 40,000 universe - that's GrimDark™. Even the "good guys" are bad guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalos Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Soul Drinkers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Yes, I believe it is. Many stories to be found in various GW/FW/BL publications describe Chapters driven to the brink of extinction by Imperial forces, while leaving you with the distinct impression that they weren't so much "fallen" as "inconvenient". Whether due to being on the losing side of a battle or the wrong side of some Administratum (usually the Ecclesiarchy or some High Lord). My idea was that maybe, the chapter was fighting to save a planet, and failed in the eyes of the =][=. The chapter still believed that the planet could be saved, but an Inquisitor nonetheless ordered Exterminatus on the planet. Realizing that the Imperium has no love for its own people, the chapter denounced the emperor and became fleet-based, going out to help those neglected by the imperium, and to fight the evils of chaos, while simultaneously being hunted by the Imperium itself. Could that be justified? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonis Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 A-Team in Spaaaaaace! :) Seriously though, I think that's very justifiable. I think there's a lot of depth to be had in creating a renegade chapter. They are also potentially the only 'good' guys in a very dark universe. The imperium is hardly good by any measure of the word. Renegades who defend those weaker than themselves, who follow their own rules and go against the established authority are often popular heroes. Just read the Water Margin or any Robin Hood novel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmere Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Its funny because I have been a creeper for years on BnC and I finally register to ask a question and you beat me to it. Yay for reading! Another interesting question that relates to the topic...If an chapter went renegade how would it get gear? Is there someway around having to get your armory from AdMech? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Its funny because I have been a creeper for years on BnC and I finally register to ask a question and you beat me to it. Yay for reading! Another interesting question that relates to the topic...If an chapter went renegade how would it get gear? Is there someway around having to get your armory from AdMech? Scavenge, Black Market (Rogue Traders), Secret Benefactor... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm glad you guys like the idea :) Another interesting question that relates to the topic...If an chapter went renegade how would it get gear? Is there someway around having to get your armory from AdMech? My idea is that they were very loyal for awhile before they went "good guy renegade" and therefore were able to build up a fairly decent arsenal. It also means that, for the most part, what they have now needs to last! I'm working on a new Liber article for these guys. Should have it up sometime tomorrow :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would also like to know if this first sentence of my "origins" section is feasible. My 40k fluff knowledge is mediocre at best, but I did some research and looked at some maps and this is the way that I picture them being founded: "The Sons of Retribution were a chapter commissioned by the High Lords of Terra to explore, secure, and defend the Parsus sector in the Centaurus Arm of Segmentum Ultima." The Parsus sector is my own imaginary sector and the Centaurus Arm seemed a good place for it since, according to the map i linked to, it is the least documented, and has little alien activity (I want their main enemies to be chaos cultists and warbands) I will go on about how they are derived from Black Templar/Imperial Fist genestock and whatnot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmere Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Scavenge, Black Market (Rogue Traders), Secret Benefactor... Would it be far fetched to say that rogue chapter might come across a manufactorum ship or perhaps controlled one prior to their excommunication? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonis Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Plausible but would bring the wrath of the Admech down on them in a way that would make Khorne wince. I've never really heard of a manufactorum ship. They tend to be massive complexes that dominate whole worlds with strict production quotas to be met as tribute to the Imperium. If such a thing were lost to renegades then there would be a crusade against them. Lots of chapters operate without much support though. Chaos warbands raid and pillage for their raw materials, the Carchadons operate outside of Imperial space for extended periods of time with no support system. It can be done. If your chapter is truly altruistic and defended human worlds on the edge of Imperial space then they could function with support from those worlds. Non-Imperial human worlds could give them supplies, recruits and materials as tribute and fringe imperial worlds could skim the imperial tribute enough to support the renegades for centuries before the authorities even noticed. The Imperium is a vast place and whole revolutions have happened on the edges of space and it has been generations before some lowly accountant noticed that Imperial tithes were short, an investigation was launched and military action was deemed necessary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Plausible but would bring the wrath of the Admech down on them in a way that would make Khorne wince. I've never really heard of a manufactorum ship. They tend to be massive complexes that dominate whole worlds with strict production quotas to be met as tribute to the Imperium. If such a thing were lost to renegades then there would be a crusade against them. Lots of chapters operate without much support though. Chaos warbands raid and pillage for their raw materials, the Carchadons operate outside of Imperial space for extended periods of time with no support system. It can be done. If your chapter is truly altruistic and defended human worlds on the edge of Imperial space then they could function with support from those worlds. Non-Imperial human worlds could give them supplies, recruits and materials as tribute and fringe imperial worlds could skim the imperial tribute enough to support the renegades for centuries before the authorities even noticed. The Imperium is a vast place and whole revolutions have happened on the edges of space and it has been generations before some lowly accountant noticed that Imperial tithes were short, an investigation was launched and military action was deemed necessary. This is the kind of confirmation I was looking for! :) I've just finished writing my first draft for the Liber and I will post it within the next hour or so. I will also link to it on this thread and in my sig. COOL! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Ok so I took the advice you guys have given me and HEREis the first take on the second take of the Sons of Retribution. Enjoy! And thanks for the feedback! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3144655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonis Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Looks pretty good so far. I'd play up to their relationship with the people of Parsus IV though. Splitting away from the Imperium is a big deal, especially for a marine. Give them a real reason to fight. :lol: Other than that I actually dig the chapter. It's interesting, unique and believable. Oh and give the Inquisitor a reason to be there. It would be all the more tragic if the Sons had called him in themselves to assist with the problem only to have him exterminate their homeworld. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3145085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Looks pretty good so far. I'd play up to their relationship with the people of Parsus IV though. Splitting away from the Imperium is a big deal, especially for a marine. Give them a real reason to fight. :) Other than that I actually dig the chapter. It's interesting, unique and believable. Oh and give the Inquisitor a reason to be there. It would be all the more tragic if the Sons had called him in themselves to assist with the problem only to have him exterminate their homeworld. Thank you very much! I DIG that idea. Nobody has really written anything on the IA Page, so I'm waiting for some more c&c on that article before I go back and rework anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3145353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Scavenge, Black Market (Rogue Traders), Secret Benefactor... Would it be far fetched to say that rogue chapter might come across a manufactorum ship or perhaps controlled one prior to their excommunication? Well, I've also heard it said often on this forum that many chapters can make their own bolters and similar, assuming you still have some techmarines and somewhere for them to work. Basic weapons and armour wouldn't neccesarily be too hard, but replacing tanks and power weapons and so on would probably require the occasional daring raid on Imperial factories/forgeships/warehouses/etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3146964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cirrius Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Scavenge, Black Market (Rogue Traders), Secret Benefactor... Would it be far fetched to say that rogue chapter might come across a manufactorum ship or perhaps controlled one prior to their excommunication? Well, I've also heard it said often on this forum that many chapters can make their own bolters and similar, assuming you still have some techmarines and somewhere for them to work. Basic weapons and armour wouldn't neccesarily be too hard, but replacing tanks and power weapons and so on would probably require the occasional daring raid on Imperial factories/forgeships/warehouses/etc. See this was my thought concept as well until I realized that Space Marine bolters don't say "Made in China" on the side. They are QUALITY instruments of war. The same goes for all Space Marine weapons. There are just run-of-the-mill sapce marine weapons that have lasted for thousands of years. Very rarely would something like a power weapon require "replacing" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3147231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmere Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Scavenge, Black Market (Rogue Traders), Secret Benefactor... Would it be far fetched to say that rogue chapter might come across a manufactorum ship or perhaps controlled one prior to their excommunication? Well, I've also heard it said often on this forum that many chapters can make their own bolters and similar, assuming you still have some techmarines and somewhere for them to work. Basic weapons and armour wouldn't neccesarily be too hard, but replacing tanks and power weapons and so on would probably require the occasional daring raid on Imperial factories/forgeships/warehouses/etc. Duly noted. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258589-need-help-justifying-an-idea/#findComment-3148225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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