Vanilla SM, Auto cannon dreads or preds? terms

[mmaarrkk]

As per title really, TL auto cannon x2 dread, see these in a lot of tourny loadouts, or preds with autocannon and las cannon sponsers? pretty much same in game cost

 

Terminators with deepstrike, either assault or vanilla or Sternguard with all those combi weapons, again with combi weapons and drop pod just under the cost of a terminator squad

 

And storm talons, loadout I like the sound of is TL assault cannons and typhoon missile launchers, i was going to use skyhammer but then relised typhoons have 12" less range but 1 better strength 1 better AP but heavy 2 instead of heavy 3 whats going to be best for killing other flyers and general support?

 

Thanks!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

As per title really, TL auto cannon x2 dread, see these in a lot of tourny loadouts, or preds with autocannon and las cannon sponsers? pretty much same in game cost

 

Terminators with deepstrike, either assault or vanilla or Sternguard with all those combi weapons, again with combi weapons and drop pod just under the cost of a terminator squad

 

And storm talons, loadout I like the sound of is TL assault cannons and typhoon missile launchers, i was going to use skyhammer but then relised typhoons have 12" less range but 1 better strength 1 better AP but heavy 2 instead of heavy 3 whats going to be best for killing other flyers and general support?

 

Thanks!

 

1. I'm a fan of dreadnoughts, but really it depends on your army lisr. Rifleman Dreadnoughts are good for popping Rhinos, while combi-Preds can do the same thing and still threaten heavier vehicles. The Rifleman, thanks to twinlinked, has become a poor man's quad gun as well, since it can put a hit or two on flyers, while the Pred's chances of hitting one are a hope and a prayer. So it all comes down to how your list is built.

 

2. Again, this choice is list dependent. Sternguard drop pods are good because you can get them first turn, so you can use them to alpha strike whatever annoying part of the enemy want to make sure never makes it to mid-field. Terminators, however, are more resilient on a model by model basis, even though you can't know for sure when they're coming in. Plus, Inertial Guidance means that pods are safer to deep strike than Termies. Now, if we're talking a BIG squad of Termies -- say, seven or more -- then that is going to give your opponent fits, and it'll take a lot of pressure off of your main body when they come in because it'll take some serious concentration of firepower to put them down.

 

3. I think that the best weapon option for a Talon depends entirely on what you plan on using it for. I'm going to use mine as an interceptor, so I'm taking the lascannons since the AP2 bonus and S9 are the best bet for blowing other aircraft out of the sky. The TML turns it into a true multi-role aircraft, while the Skyhammers are also good all-rounders that provide anti-infantry, anti-MC, and anti-vehicle shooting at a greater volume than the TMLs provide.

[rubix41]

As per title really, TL auto cannon x2 dread, see these in a lot of tourny loadouts, or preds with autocannon and las cannon sponsers? pretty much same in game cost

 

From my last battle - ANY Vehicle (Including Dreads) are in trouble because of the Hull Point system. True, you aren't going to be stunned/shaken by a glance but by taking a few glances it will wreck you unless you are in cover which (according to my research) is only a 25% hide by cover away! (Thank the Emperor). Out of the two, you can see why Twin Linked Dreads are still going to be a good buy because you can at least park them in cover like infantry - it's harder with a Predator.

 

Terminators with deepstrike, either assault or vanilla or Sternguard with all those combi weapons, again with combi weapons and drop pod just under the cost of a terminator squad

 

I do see Sternguard as the Alpha Strike in a drop pod as in drop, shoot and shoot some more but, with the AP rules on power weapons, Terminators, in my opinion, are worth it for a generalist approach - 2+ saves are harder to ignore now but read Myst's article about it, or see the Terminator Deployment thread, to see why I like them.

 

And storm talons, loadout I like the sound of is TL assault cannons and typhoon missile launchers, i was going to use skyhammer but then relised typhoons have 12" less range but 1 better strength 1 better AP but heavy 2 instead of heavy 3 whats going to be best for killing other flyers and general support?

 

Lascannons - no doubt in my mind - they are in the air and they have the air superiority for giving armour a hard time. Why not use it?

[VoteForPedro]

Despite the addition of hull points I think Predators have got a bit of a survival boost. Sure, they'll die once their hull points are stripped but until that point they likely won't be stunned/ shaken like they were in 5th. Add to this the ability to snap shot if you have to reposition and the package looks a little better.

 

A couple of other things to consider with them is how your opponent is actually going to hurt them. With AV13 at the front they'll need 5s on missile launchers to even glance. Lascannons drop this to 4 but aside from IG and Dark Eldar no army can spam lascannons (or equivalents) for a reasonable cost. The situation is even worse for Autocannons, needing a 6 to even drop a hull point.

 

Couple this with the changes to Transports (no more than 6 move if you want to disembark troops) and casualty allocation (front first) and you're not going to see transports charging across the board and dumping melta fire into your Predators.

 

They are cheap (especially with Heavy Bolter sponsons), survivable and reasonably killy. Can't ask for a lot more than that.

 

Dreadnoughts aren't terrible by any stretch of the imagination, they are still as great as they ever used to be. They are semi effective anti air with twin linked weaponry too.

 

Of course, I love the Predator model so I could be biased ;)

[rubix41]

Of course, I love the Predator model so I could be biased :)

 

What about us poor Vindicator lovers? T_T There's no love anymore.

[VoteForPedro]

Of course, I love the Predator model so I could be biased :lol:

 

What about us poor Vindicator lovers? T_T There's no love anymore.

 

Oh, there's plenty to love about the Vindicator now! Full strength blasts regardless of where the hole it, less likely to have its gun blown off because of changes to glancing hits. Stick a Storm Bolter on it for insurance and go annoy some people!

[Ming]

Dreads vs Preds...I've used both...dakka dreads seem to last longer (less visual target/priority?)...besides, use of cheap transports is wayy up, so they have a good role in any list. Plus if dreads are jumped by a deathstar, they can fight back...preds cannot...

 

Terms vs Sterns...used both...Terms may have higher valye / survivability. Regardless, use of either...look for ways to be scoring w/in your list to add most value. Assault terms are my favorite, but we'll see about that....

 

Storm Talon...have not used...but I like Vendettas alot....so lascannon Talons would be my favorite....

[DarkGuard]

Preds or Dreads? I only own Dreads, so I can only say about them. And to be honest, I don't use them that much anymore. The best config I could find was the Rifleman one, and I use my Devs with missile launchers and Typhoons more nowadays. I've heard that MM Drop Dreads aren't bad, and an assault cannon Dread in midfield is all right, but overall, I'd prefer a Pred. I wish I had one, I just don't have the money right now, but a dakka Pred or two in my list would be nice.

 

Termies or Sternguard? Sternguard for me. Good flexibility at range, cheaper, and easier to transport. Terminators are good, they're tough, durable, and flexible across all phases of the game, but don't pack as big a punch in shooting. They're also harder to transport and if you footslog them every loss, as rare as they can be, means a lot more than losing a Sternguard.

[Gideon999]

Ive used both myself, and I have to admit I prefer the dreads. This is mostly due to 5th edition and the fact that I built my preds way before I knew how they shoudl be built (yep, I have two with TL Lascannon and HB sponsons) but I have proxied them as both dakka preds and as a bare TL Las turret (no sponsons). For the cost, they sucked in 5th due to the lack of being able to fire and move to effect, so the dreads were waaaay better. Both the rifleman and the TLLAS/Missile version worked well for me. Usually as backfield fire support for the most part. They would rarely get primaried in this role like they do when they pod in or try to move up midfield.

 

As far as the preds though, I have yet to try them in 6th. With the changes to moving and shooting as well as the overall higher maneuverability of vehicles for going flat out I hope they will be useful again in some way. I figure that, deployed near the backfield and using cover and movement with snap firing that they will be about as viable as a dread for the same points though the weakness in close combat will be an issue.

[DarkGuard]

In regards to Preds in combat, do remember that they can't be locked in combat, and so can move away from it and continue shooting. Dreads, however, can be locked in combat, and they're not too great in combat, even with a DCCW. It's a lot easier to prevent a Dread from shooting than a Pred if you get close.

[Haranin]

Flyers mean your tanks will be hit on their side armor. For IA users, mortis dreads and contemptors have skfire and interceptor.

 

Mortis IA beat predators hands down when flyers are around.

 

If there isn't a flying circus locally, predators rock. Bubble wrap them with an aegis defense line and stay at range!

[rubix41]

If there isn't a flying circus locally, predators rock. Bubble wrap them with an aegis defense line and stay at range!

 

Although I think it's going that way, I hope everyone doesn't want a line. B)

[mmaarrkk]

I've decided to buy both, a pair of dreads with autocannon mounts, and a pair of preds one with autocannon/lascannon sponsons load out and one with lascannon /lascannon or heavy bolters sponsons so I'll do some trial and error in a few games.

 

Ive also bought a storm talon but after listening to other peoples and seeing the merit in it i'll go with ass cannon and lascannon loadout for a few games to see how it goes, then Ill thinking about buying some more.

[Marine Errant]

I too have both, although I haven't used a pred for years. Hate the bloody useless things :D Can't go wrong with a dread though (although since I have 14 of them I may be somewhat biased......), even in the modern-day fear-the-flyer game. Mortis pattern contemptors will quickly blow anything sky-high (sorry, couldn't resist it.....) and even the rifleman can be of use as an AA platform. The pred though, even if slightly more useful in 6th ed, still fails dismally to achieve anything useful in my eyes. I have never had one fire more than once before either dying or getting immobilised. Then again, I may just be very unlucky with preds and use all my luck with my dreads ;)

Either way they are two very different units and you will need to think carefully about which one to include in your army.

[Muctar]

A combi-pred is always well worth the investment in my lists, though I have used the rifleman dread as well. The pred is better at blowing up a vehicle with the first volley while the rifleman is better at glancing a vehicle to death. Overall it depends what you need in your list since the lascannons on the pred can attempt to to damage against any vehicle and the rifleman fills the role of reliably killing AV 11 and less.

[Verbal Underbelly]

What do people think of dreadnoughts with two close combat weapons and a heavy flamer? Are they a viable option in 6th?

[Gideon999]

Without a way to get them into assault they are going to get eaten. If there is a way to get them "safely" into close combat, sure! However there is that new "we cant hurt this thing" rule that stops you from being guaranteed of slowly picking that unit apart. Unless you are a BA player loading up on blood talons or whatever they are called you are likely going to get to kill 3 guys, then they will run away and melta you.

 

Not to say it cant be done, Im sure someone here will post right after me with a fantastic idea to get around this, but im my experience dreads are more valuable as a mobile fire support platform than as a reliable close combat machine.

[Muctar]

My Ironclads have performed well each time I've had them on the table. I tend to go with the DCCW with heavy flamer and Seismic Hammer with meltagun, in a pod for transport. The ironclads are more survivable than other dreads with AV13 on the front and sides, and will always be able to charge when available due to the extra armor. Most units will not be a threat to them in combat as well, so long as you're smart about what you attack. Ironclads also can take up to two hunter-killers to help with anti-armor as well.

 

As for other dreads I have no personal experience but I do know that Furiosos and Death Company Furiosos with two blood talons will carve through any infantry lacking an invulnerable save.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Another point on the ironclad -- take the assault launchers, they grant Stealth against shooters inside 8". With smoke, that's a 4 plus against half range-meltas.

[Ming]

Reward to Deus! Another great observation!

 

1. A Mortis can pop smoke and on the opponent's turn intercept and still get a smoke cover save at no penalty to its own shooting.

2. Any dread can pop smoke in the shooting phase and then assault, giving the dread cover for overwatch or later cover if the charge range comes up short!

[Marine Errant]

Have you thought about using a siege dread? Inferno cannon and DCCW w/heavy flamer? Is great against the current proliferation of buildings. If you get a pen with the DCCW against a building or a stationary vehicle then all passengers (or occupants for buildings) get auto hit by the inbuilt heavy flamer!!!