6th ed? how does it affect the blood angels?

[grandmaster lisander]

Ok ive been moving my prego wife and my self from germany to the states and have been unable to pick up a new 6th ed codex to see how it will affect the game. can any one fill me in and get me up to speed?

[John Rainbow]

Your best bet is just to look through some of the stuff over on BoLs or 3++ as they have some decent summary 'changes in 6th' articles. Better than us lot trying to list everything!

[Morticon]

Your best bet is just to look through some of the stuff over on BoLs or 3++ as they have some decent summary 'changes in 6th' articles. Better than us lot trying to list everything!

 

But this doesnt help us or grow our community.

We can always make a compilation of tactics based on stuff posted at a later stage.

Or wait for some wiley user to post them.

[the jeske]

razor spam dead. DoA and other full reserv armies dead. Dominating armies are those that can spam flyers [necron or IG] it is impossible to ignore flyers .

ally rules are powerful and make games a lot less predictible . on the other hand there are armies for which ally are offten an autoinclude [not BA, but you can expect to see a farseer in many Tau armies or some sort of demons in chaos armies].So If you ever wanted to use troop bikes in your BA army , you can now do so .

 

From a less meta game point of view and more of a gaming one , I disadvise trying to learn playing them game at 2k pts[double FoC for an army . so 4 HQs 6FA/Elite/HVy possible] . 1750-1999 are best for learning and deciding what you want to play.

 

BA wise.

you want to remove fists from you sgts . tycho is good . SR are better . +2sv is very good . attack bikes still good. outflanking baals are good. if you take a librarian[and you always should] divination is the school of powers to take most of time .FnP is changed but still good . you want to assault with jump RAS and use drop pod/rhino units to sponge up the incoming fire.

Getting first turn is a huge adventage , expect to see a lot of cortez in imperial armies . Expect to want to use him yourself after some time.

dont be afraid to use tanks or rhinos . yes they die fast , yes razor builds are dead , but you still need Line of Sight blockers and non av11 stuff actualy got more useful in 6th ed.

 

mort will probably write up something more coherent. Ah check chaplain Ademtus 10 games trails on this very sub forum they will give you a good feel how 6th looks right now .

[Chaplain Admetus]

Much like the Coyote of the same name (and with similar results on the tabletop ;) ) I shall jump in as the Wile E. user with what I know!

 

Jump marines are awesome. Hammer of wrath gives us a boost if we need it. Rhino-rush/razorspam are nowhere near as good as before due to not being able to assault on the turn you disembark from a vehicle (even if it was stationary), and only ever being able to move 6" and disembark. Also, the scoring changes below. Death company got better since rage now gives +2 attacks on the charge, and there's nothing about having to chase the nearest unit. Feel no Pain is now a 5+, but it works against more stuff (you don't get it against Instant Death, but that's all), and is now the only defence against Perils of the Warp (No saves allowed, and FnP is specified as not being a save, simply ignoring the wound on a 5+). Librarians are good - the new rulebook lores are pretty solid, and we get access to Divination, which is probably the best. We also have access to one of the best fliers in the game in the form of the Storm Raven (its the most armoured, and is a solid gunship and transport all in one), though admittedly I've never used one.

 

In a more general sense, ATSKNF is better thanks to the removal of No Retreat saves, and is arguably better than fearless. You can now only reserve 50% of your units, not counting things that always start in reserve (Drop pods, fliers, Daemon armies), with characters counting separately. For example: you've got a captain and two priests, 2 assault squads, a baal, and a storm raven... the raven doesn't count, and that leaves you with 6 units, of which 3 may start off-table. Means that the all-DoA army is now to all intents and purposes unplayable in the old format. Reserves also turn up on a 3+ on turns 2 and 3, and auto on turn 4 - makes our jump packs extremely reliable given our re-roll and the 1d6 scatter. There's also the introduction of the rule that if you have no models left on the table at the end of any game turn you auto-lose, so make sure what you have down is likely to survive turn 1 (I've already pulled of a turn 2 win against GK by tabling his ground forces, and a storm raven full of draigo, paladins and a dread didn't turn up). True Line of Sight is even more important, with casualties being taken from the closest visible model first - sergeants and special weapons now live in the middle of the unit, rather than the front. Independent Characters get to dodge hits on a 2+ look out sir roll, sergeants get to do it on a 4+. Characters are also useful in combat for challenges, but I'll leave that to the rulebook.

 

New missions are a lot more varied... normal objectives are worth 3 Victory Points, and there are 3 secondary objectives worth 1 Victory Point each - killing the enemy general, making the first kill (wiping out an entire unit/vehicle), and having a denial unit (anything that can score or contest) in the enemy's DZ at the end of the game. Troops are still the only scorers, but vehicles can no longer contest, and you can't score from within a vehicle. Standard objective mission is now called "crusade", kill points is "purge the alien", 1 objective each is "the emperor's will". There's 3 new ones - "Big Guns Never Tire", where heavy support units can capture objectives (even if they're a vehicle, as long as they're not immobilised), but give up an additional VP if destroyed; "The Scouring", where there's 6 objectives with random values, determined after deployment but before the game starts (one is worth 1, two are worth 2, two are worth 3, and one is worth 4), fast attack choices are scoring, but give up one extra VP if destroyed; and "The Relic", where there's a single objective in the table centre and it moves with the unit that picks it up - if the unit falls back or the model is killed, it gets dropped, but since it can only be picked up in the movement phase... we're fast enough to be very good at this mission. 3 deployment types: standard 12" on pitched battle (now called Dawn of War), Hammer and anvil - which has the table lengthwise, starting 12" from the centre, and Vanguard Strike, cutting the table in half diagonally, and setting up 12" from the line running corner to corner.

 

That's the basics, hopefully enough to give you the gist before you start playing games. Best of luck :)

 

+EDIT+ marginally ninja'd by Jeske... since he's plugged my batrep thread already I'll stick in the links:

10 game challenge here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=255884 (I play the same list with a mix of everything for 10 games, to try and get a feel for the units)

And my current batrep thread here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=257928 (this one's me playing with a proper list :P)

[JamesI]

Jeske and Admetus posted pretty much my opinions.

 

In 6th 2+ armor is king. Dante, Tycho, Mephiston, Astorath, Sanguinary Guard all benefit. Sanguinary Guard are really good in 6th.

 

Attack bikes have always been on of the best units, and they still are. I don't play a 6th game without at least 4, my Dante army has 6.

 

Fliers are a pain, but manageable. The Storm Raven is pretty good, cheaper answers to fliers are Aegis defense lines with Quad Guns. Or things like Twin Linked assault cannons.

 

Librarians are great. I've been running Episoltary Librarians with 2 Divination powers so I can cast both each turn. I have not tried a 6th game without Librarians.

 

Death Company are better now that they are controllable.

[dadieau]

While Feel No Pain may be used more often now the chage from 4+ to 5+ is a bummer, but it also follows the over all drop in cover saves. What's killing me is the loss of +1 to initiative with Furious Charge. 2+ armor saves rock and Bikes straight up 5 toughness espiecially with multi wound figs is great.

[Taranis]

Brother Corbulo is very powerful. His 2+ fnp is usable vs any wound below S 8 even power weapons and ap1/2/3 etc. If a wound is too dangerous you just use "look out, Sir" on 2+.

I tarpitted a S 7 ap2 necron lord for 3 turns/6combats until the game ended.

Strength 10 is necessary to deal with nob bikers/other multi wound T5. It's sometimes necessary to eliminate their fnp. I was in trouble today.....

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I still think Power fiss re a must for sergeants. However you need to keep them in the bck on a charge so they can avoid beng picked off in a challenge.

[grandmaster lisander]

Thank you all for the advise, when i pick up my own 6TH ED rule book ill definatly be takeing a hard look at my new army list. lord knows i need the practice with the new game play.

[Paulochromis]

Attack bikes ... I don't play a 6th game without at least 4, my Dante army has 6.

Care to share?

I'm a long time UM player, but always liked jump packers. Only got around 25-30 which is too few for a RAS-based jump list, but Sang Guard could be doable.

Dante, 4x SG, 2x SP, 3x2 MMAB then what? Devs, Dreads or Ravens?

[JamesI]

Attack bikes ... I don't play a 6th game without at least 4, my Dante army has 6.

Care to share?

I'm a long time UM player, but always liked jump packers. Only got around 25-30 which is too few for a RAS-based jump list, but Sang Guard could be doable.

Dante, 4x SG, 2x SP, 3x2 MMAB then what? Devs, Dreads or Ravens?

I only own 2 units of Sang Guard, so I've been running

Dante, Librarian, 2x priest. 2xSG, 1 10 man RAS, 5 scout snipers, 6 attack bikes, 1 Storm Raven, 1 Aegis defense line (for the scouts to hide in).

[Paulochromis]

thanks - looks good.

[Fortunate Son]

I would also add that although it is not IMPOSSIBLE to ignore flyers,

(based on the flyer-spammed armies I've played)

they're not a huge bother if you like to move toward the opponents edge of the board.

Mostly, they just fly over...

[grandmaster lisander]

for jump/ flyer army were would you go? for us BA i know the storm raven is one opetion but what about the talons? worth the point drop or just a small moving target?

[knife&fork]

I would also add that although it is not IMPOSSIBLE to ignore flyers,

(based on the flyer-spammed armies I've played)

they're not a huge bother if you like to move toward the opponents edge of the board.

Mostly, they just fly over...

 

Yes, with an aggressive pod list flyers are not a huge issue. Except those troublesome stormtalons with their rotating assault cannon. It's difficult to hide from that one.

[grandmaster lisander]

this is alot to think about.....

[DominicJ]

Vehicles now have wounds.

People have wrongly mistaken this for a bad thing.

 

A Razor can be glanced twice and move and fire at full capacity.

Third glance kills it.

2+ save is awesome, we cant take much of it, which is a shame.

Rage is now all plus, but furious charge has been neutered.

Flyers got a boost, and we have the best flyer.