Attack IC in assault, specialist weapons, Look out sir

[TheReclusiarch]

Hello everyone!

 

As many others I've got a few questions now after my first 6th edition game. I like the new rules, but there were a few things I wanted cleared up. Can't think of a better place to ask then here! =)

 

1. Can you allocate attacks towards an Independent Character in close combat when said character has joined a unit? I've checked the "Characters" section of the rulebook and it says that a character can not be singled out. After that I checked the Independent Character rule which said that ICs follow the same rules as characters (with a few exceptions, none which seemed to apply to close combat). I then checked the assault phase section, but was unable to find anything there either. You guys know how it is?

2. When using weapons with the specialist weapon rule, does it matter what kind of specialist weapon you have? I.e can you have a lighting claw and a thunderhammer (both with the specialist weapon rule) and have them give you +1 attack? Was thinking about making a character with two thunderhammers, but that seems to be needlessly expensive in the case of two specialist weapons giving each other +1 attack (a shame, the visual yummyness of two thunderhammers can not be denied!).

3. Are "Look out, Sir" rolls made after, or before armour saves?

4. Ok, I got to admit, I feel kinda embarrassed to ask this question, but here goes! I understand the focus fire rule and I really like it, but.. what happens if you do not focus fire on a unit partially in cover? Does half the unit have to be in cover to receive a save (like 5th edition), or what? I've tried looking in the rulebook, but I had no luck on this! :)

5. Do you need to remove whole multiple wound models before allocating wounds to other models, even if there is models closer to the enemy firing at you? Or can you move models around inside a unit (during your movement phase) to make sure that wounded models are kept in the back?

 

Thanks in advance!

[DarkGuard]

1) No, you cannot allocate attacks to an IC in combat anymore, he counts as part of the unit. Of course, he'll likely be in base to base, so one of the first models to take wounds (but will get a 2+ LO,S) and you can single him out through challenges. But not normally.

 

2) It doesn't matter what specialist weapons you take, you get +1A on the weapon you're using if you have two.

 

3) It depends. When your armour saves are the same, then after. When they're different, then before. Basically, it's when you allocate the wound, which depends on whether you have mixed armour or not.

 

4) Cover is applied on a model per model basis now. So if you don't focus fire, then you check to see if the front model is in cover or not, if it is it gets a cover save. When that model dies, the next model gets a cover save if in cover, if not in cover it doesn't get a model. It's long and a bit confusing, but that's how it's done.

 

5) Basically, you remove whole models before taking wounds off of other models with each resolution of the wound pool. But the models taking the wounds have to be the closest. So if you have an unwounded model that's not the closest, then you don't take the wounds off that model, even if the closest has full wounds. So you can rotate the unit round to protect wounded models. Even when using LO,S, you don't have to allocate to wounded models if you don't want to.

[Toasterfree]

5) Basically, you remove whole models before taking wounds off of other models with each resolution of the wound pool. But the models taking the wounds have to be the closest. So if you have an unwounded model that's not the closest, then you don't take the wounds off that model, even if the closest has full wounds. So you can rotate the unit round to protect wounded models. Even when using LO,S, you don't have to allocate to wounded models if you don't want to.

this goes to another subquestion of this:

if i only deal 1 wound to a model and then fire at the same unit from another direction and there is a "unwounded" model nearest the new unit do you now remove a whole model, or is everything on a per model basis now.

[Seahawk]

Remember, a Character can also put out Precision Strikes, which could very well allow a sergeant to put a power fist wound on a multi-wound character...or vice versa.

[puck]

2) It doesn't matter what specialist weapons you take, you get +1A on the weapon you're using if you have two.

 

I want to make sure I get this right: If I've got a captain with a lightning claw and a power fist (both specialist weapons), that means I can get an extra lightning claw attack (that rerolls fails wounds I think) at initiative or an extra power fist @ S8 Ap2 since the rules require "two specialist weapons"? And looks freakin' sweet on top of it all?

 

Might have just found my captain loadout...

[Toasterfree]

2) It doesn't matter what specialist weapons you take, you get +1A on the weapon you're using if you have two.

 

I want to make sure I get this right: If I've got a captain with a lightning claw and a power fist (both specialist weapons), that means I can get an extra lightning claw attack (that rerolls fails wounds I think) at initiative or an extra power fist @ S8 Ap2 since the rules require "two specialist weapons"? And looks freakin' sweet on top of it all?

 

Might have just found my captain loadout...

you are correct sir.

[Disruptor_fe404]

To add to the above, the extra attack still needs to be with the weapon you chose to fight with that round.

[Kastor Krieg]

To add to the above, the extra attack still needs to be with the weapon you chose to fight with that round.

In that vein, is there any codex that allows termies to buy a lightning claw and a thunderhammer / power fist? Because under these rules, it's definitely a better choice than 2x claw, obviously.

[DarkGuard]

No, none at all. Except for Captains and characters in C:BT.

[JamesI]

No, none at all. Except for Captains and characters in C:BT.

I don't think that is true. Wolf Guard can take terminator armor and specific weapons. Its really expensive, but they can do it.

[DarkGuard]

I'm not a Space Wolf fan, so natural I'd forget about them. Cheers mate :rolleyes:

[Kastor Krieg]

Sweet, thanks for the clarification. Appreciated! :tu:

[Warprat]

As characters are part of the unit now, does it matter if they are in actual base to base contact in assaults? They still can issue challenges and use their weapons while being in the second rank... right?

[Raeven]

Yep. At the acceptance of the challenge, they are moved base to base, but must remain in coherency. Otherwise, they just have to remain in the 2 inch buffer of base to base models.

[Ming]

I watched a game the other day where someone was taking saves on their IC, and then passing the failed saves on with LOS rolls....canya believe that? The rules are that you decide to do LOS rolls before rolling to save...the save roll is by the body that takes the hit...pretty simple...it can slow things down a bit...but it is pretty fair...

[Darkmagi]

Actually they have to declare if they are using look out sir before saves are rolled or after... as long as he was taking the saves on the IC then killing off a guy for each unsaved wound he "look out sir'd" then he was doing it correctly.

[Lysere]

Actually they have to declare if they are using look out sir before saves are rolled or after... as long as he was taking the saves on the IC then killing off a guy for each unsaved wound he "look out sir'd" then he was doing it correctly.

 

Only if the IC has the exact same save he would be correct. If you have a different save your using then no, you most roll LoS before rolling that save.

[Darkmagi]

not the way its worded... look out sir makes no mention of the saving throws of the unit just that when a wound or an unsaved wound is allocated... your thinking of the fast rolling, the choice must be made before rolling saves but there is no restriction placed on it via armor saves

[eyeslikethunder]

No, none at all. Except for Captains and characters in C:BT.

I don't think that is true. Wolf Guard can take terminator armor and specific weapons. Its really expensive, but they can do it.

 

 

yup 48 pts for both with a wolf guard terminator =][= removed by Inquisition =][=

 

thats a wolf claw rather than a lightning claw of course so slightly better

 

so round about 8pts more not too bad for an extra attack and the choice of weapon

[Marshal Goderic]

5) Basically, you remove whole models before taking wounds off of other models with each resolution of the wound pool. But the models taking the wounds have to be the closest. So if you have an unwounded model that's not the closest, then you don't take the wounds off that model, even if the closest has full wounds. So you can rotate the unit round to protect wounded models. Even when using LO,S, you don't have to allocate to wounded models if you don't want to.

this goes to another subquestion of this:

if i only deal 1 wound to a model and then fire at the same unit from another direction and there is a "unwounded" model nearest the new unit do you now remove a whole model, or is everything on a per model basis now.

Two things here, when the shooting direction changes/closest model is now a different unwounded one, you always take the wound on the closest is the basic rule, which implies IMO that you take it on the closest even if it is unwounded and leaves another model with a wound on it elsewhere.

 

I had wanted to ask about LOS with characters and multi-wound units, I've heard/read a number of times now in 6th where a person has said, "what a great idea it would be to put an independant character at the head of a unit of multiple wound models, since then he can LOS on 2+ to any model within 6" thus 'shopping' the wounds around to unwounded models until at least every model has one wound thus keeping the models and unit alive and effective longer." Of course I want to take advantage of this situation with my army but 6th is still new and I don't know everything so I went looking for anything that would stop me from using said idea. Potentially this could also overrule the rotating unit idea again depending on your interpretation.

 

I believe I found it in regards to LOS, pg. 25 last paragraph on the page, first sentance, "Once a model has a wound allocated to it, you must continue to allocate wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the wound pool is empty."

 

In my opinion, this refutes the idea that you can use LOS on multiple wound models to make the unit and models last longer. I'd love to be wrong on this one...

In regards to the rotating/different direction idea IMO the removal of closest rule trumps this continue to allocate rule. thoughts, opinions?

[Darkmagi]

I would say that the LoS! would be considered an Advanced BGB rule vs the wound allocations Basic BGB rule thereby the LoS! rule allows shopping wounds around via Advanced>Basic